What have become of the RDMs.

[Superchicken]

when you have a KC and can make your assumptions more reasonable with facts from using one holler at me.

[Neisan_Quetz]

When you learn how accuracy works in this game holler at me.

[rog]

Don't say chaining stalwart's either, not always an option.

On exp mobs? It kind of is.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I don't have anything on how much accuracy it is, assuming he was chaining stalwart's then I'll give he's capping accuracy with D club skill then.

[Superchicken]

when you believe taht your mathmatics say your accuracy is 74% so out of 100 swings or you are gonna hit 74 times or however many swings you take you are gonna hit 74% of the time holler at me.

And again lets use your joytoy in the offhand that MAY double attack then lets look at the KC that MAY 2-8 time attack, and yes already know you are gonna pull the 8 times is the max you can attack in a round card so if you swing with your main hand sword you can only attack up to 7 times with the KC card. I'm telling you from experience with both a joytoy and KC offhand, the tp gain with the KC is still faster with KC than joytoy regardless of any mathmatical equation you want to throw out there. But again i'll listen to you cause you have KC and have tested it out first hand!

and even if i'm chaining stalwarts it dont matter cause we are talking abyssea here clearly since the use of atma is in discussion as well, but no even without using stalwarts. But food or no food stalwarts or no stalwarts my acc aint an issue i'll tp up faster than an offhand joytoy rdm will. I've used both and have both and speak from experience not math equations.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Both suck if you use Apoc/A/O/Lion, TP gain isn't as fast as you think it comes out to and overall DPS is just lower.

EDIT: I gave you atma, I gave you composure, I gave you cruor buffs, I gave you high accuracy gear with capped haste, your accuracy is more of an issue than you seem to believe without stalwart's/acc food. Try parsing instead of eyeballing for once?

[Supersun]

It's more of the lack of attack that's the problem.

That and what's the point of getting TP quickly on Rdm? Unless you have CDC Rdm WSs are ...slightly below average at best and not to mention DPS from the Kraken is going to be nearly nonexistent at all. A LOT of Rdm's damage comes from DoT. Sacrificing a big portion of your DoT for extra crappy WS damage doesn't seem like a good move. Not to mention the TP feed. Every time I see someone use a Kraken club in WoE I want to shoot them.

[Jandel]

First, I hope my english is understandable.

Regarding the thread and not how rdm is good or bad in melee...

I'm the kind of rdm who likes to just stand and focus debuffing mob, sadly, colibrì exp pt and abyssea pt won't make me doing this role, I was so disgusted by old merit pts that I merited my rdm all in campaign (lol), where I could do whatever I pleased.
In abyssea pts the role seem close to colibrì pts: haste dds, refresh mages, @#asjdn dds that don't know how to use shadows and so on. Abyssea end-game seems to me like an abyssea pt, I often found myself just helping the whm curing and buffing than debuffing the mob: usually the routine is pop nm, trying red/yellow/blue, zerg the nm and repeat with the next pop. So, not lot of place for debuffing. Dds are stronger, hit harder and miss less, what's the point in dia them?

I also hope SE won't give us cure 5, basically because I don't want to be the main healer again (this is a whm role!).

So, how do I see the rdm now?

I see it less bound to standard pts.
Something like duo/trio with friends some abyssea nms (or non abyssea nm too) that can be done without the evil brew (It's just envy: I still can't buy it!) or solo something, even just farming gold pixies.

[Rambus]

to lowman abyssea is dependent on procs, so in that view rdm ant needed.

abyssea being easy mode is part of the issue since you really do not need the support of rdm ether.

[Strife]

This thread has moved off topic but before I get back on topic I have to ask why aren't you guys using dagger? I've only recently returned to the game so I don't have an Almace but my AE was doing ~2k on multiple mobs without macro'n in any enhancing gear or using the best set-up of atmas so I don't see how chant could beat that when it's only single target. I think BLU is usually a better DD than RDM but as it doesn't posses any good AoE WS (unless circle blade is really good with atmas? I haven't tried it yet) I think AE gives us a slight edge on melee though that is most likely eroded with BLUs ability to spam AoE spells (if they have reasonable survivability against multiple mobs, I always found BLU interruption rate horrible on longer casts.

Now to get back on topic

First, I hope my english is understandable.

I also hope SE won't give us cure 5, basically because I don't want to be the main healer again (this is a whm role!).

So, how do I see the rdm now?

I see it less bound to standard pts.
Something like duo/trio with friends some abyssea nms (or non abyssea nm too) that can be done without the evil brew (It's just envy: I still can't buy it!) or solo something, even just farming gold pixies.

Your english is very good^^

SE has to give us cure 5 it's a no brainer really. Not only was our last cure upgrade at level 48 but BLM/WHM has the same tier cures as a RDM now! This is just insane! We should've got 5 in the last update, a BLM being able to cure on par with a RDM (with slightly less potency of course) wtf lol!? Cure 4 is useless as the game is now & at 99 cure 5 will be like cure 4 was pre Abyssia.

I have to disagree with what you said I think we're more bound now as one of the roles we could fill previously we now can't efficiently. I don't like being a main healer & we shouldn't & never will be as good at it as WHM but it is part of our role as a support mage & at the moment we suck in that role.. almost on par with BLM *the mind still boggles*

Though I haven't played it a lot yet since I got back (as it isn't as popular/ useful as it used to be) to me this is the only real complaint I have with RDM at the moment. With our AF3 SE has buffed our offensive magic (though some more elemental magic skill would've been nice), our enfeebling potency & our buffing abilities. With saboteur, composure & the range of benefits from subs RDM has really opened up but as we've gained in those areas we've been stripped of our effectiveness as healers & that's 50%+ of any good support mage.

PS. I know inside Abyssea our melee has greatly improved but what about outside? I don't see much improvement by way of abilities/ traits have gear options got much better (not including Almace)?