I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[detlef]

Just how long is an "initiation" supposed to take? How many months worth of subscriptions is he supposed to pay before he can actually play the game, when there are so many other MMO options (including those published by S-E themselves) that let new players hit the ground running?

Should we update the NPC tutorial dialogs to state "Don't even think of doing any content released since 2010 until you've logged 500 hours?"

What's your solution to allow new players to access content? SE's original intent was to have people do missions and quests to unlock activities and events. I see two options that SE can choose to make these activities accessible to newbies:

1. Remove any tie between content and mission/quest progress, allowing anybody to access the content the first day they log on.

2. Severely nerf the content to allow newbies to progress through the prerequisites much faster than when the content was originally introduced.

If you were SE, which choice would you make? Throw away hundreds upon thousands of man hours of development time so that newbies can get to "the good stuff" faster? Or reduce the difficultly and tediousness as much as possible so the content is still experienced by players? Let's face it, if missions were still hard and couldn't be soloed, new players wouldn't be able to do them at all. At least making them easier through nerfs and a raised level cap allows newbies to experience them.

Vana'diel is underpopulated, and the only way to find people doing things is to race to the top and join current content. Even the devs realize this, and they're usually the last ones to pick up on the game's trends. And no, the game isn't dead, but it is incredibly top-heavy and new players are stuck on their own for anything pre-Adoulin even with a linkshell. Yes, that is a legitimate turn-off to many players and denying it doesn't make the issue go away.

This is absolutely accurate. The game is top heavy, and SE's decision to accommodate new players by pushing them to 99 is probably the best way to deal with things. If you aren't 99 there's not much to do in this game, so why not get newbies on semi-equal footing as quickly as possible? Still, there must be a balance between catching newbies up and having them experience older content the way it was intended (as much as possible at least).

I'm still subbed to FFXIV (legacy 180 day sub), sitting in Revenant's Toll as a full item level 90 SMN. Bored, nothing to do, not entirely enjoying how WoW clone it is, but that's a discussion for another time/topic.

When you requested that the Mythic quest be dumbed down, aren't you asking for FFXI to be like FF14? Where even ultimate weapons are relatively easy to get and everybody looks the same? And you run out of things to do because you don't have long term goals?

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

What's your solution to allow new players to access content?

Well, considering the specific example here, I'd simply not make Lumoria access a requirement for reforged Artifact armor. Upgrading to +1 before getting the level 109 version is optional; there's not even a requirement to do any Limbus (which makes the idea of Sagheera "singing your praises" seem even weirder). Where's the lore rationale for CoP progress when there aren't even any CoP jobs?

In contrast, one can upgrade an RME weapon to 119 without so much as having set foot in Promyvion, or have Tu'Lia access.

[Edyth]

Judging by your two threads, FFXI's just not your cup of tea.

You want to rush to the elitist end-game grind for some reason, something that isn't even fun, and you clearly don't enjoy the story, the journey, or character growth. If the story, journey, and progression seem like work to you, then clearly this isn't the game for you. Because endgame is REAL work and no damn fun.

[detlef]

Well, considering the specific example here, I'd simply not make Lumoria access a requirement for reforged Artifact armor. Upgrading to +1 before getting the level 109 version is optional; there's not even a requirement to do any Limbus (which makes the idea of Sagheera "singing your praises" seem even weirder). Where's the lore rationale for CoP progress when there aren't even any CoP jobs?

In contrast, one can upgrade an RME weapon to 119 without so much as having set foot in Promyvion, or have Tu'Lia access.

AF upgrades are only one of his complaints though. He also complained about having to do nation missions in order to access Dynamis, Zilart missions in order to access Ark Angels, and ToAU in order to obtain Alexander. How would you address these?

[Lithera]

But to the op and to some of the others who actually had time to not be in the same boat as a new player the holy crap I can do this by myself but because there isn't a fight after every CS they see it only as work. Heck downing aby zone bosses is party play even if it is just bringing a tank and a TH procer or an extra healer. I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a server where no one wants to help someone with something inside of aby. I don't understand why it's so hard to see that while you are working on doing the old content slowly you can do new content things you can do low man or will be able to do low man. There is no reason besides greed or selfishness to be needing to look like your job this instant. Why can't a run or geo beat their maat fights at 70 as said jobs? I haven't done them so I wouldn't know if it's like getting astral flowed before you could n dying or how maat would hundred fist you in your blm fight cause you know the old man cheats. Yes there isn't a tone of gear that is crafted for lv 70 for either job but there are some really good stuff you can get from other sources like allied notes have lv 65 or 68 gear.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

AF upgrades are only one of his complaints though. He also complained about having to do nation missions in order to access Dynamis, Zilart missions in order to access Ark Angels, and ToAU in order to obtain Alexander. How would you address these?

By not leaving new players feeling like they need a relic or a mythic to begin with.

(So sick of fighting over colorless souls...)

[Draylo]

Then there wouldn't be a desire to even obtain those items and you undervalue the effort people put into obtaining them. Remember how well that worked out when SE originally decided to phase out REM? I'd rather this game stay with a niche userbase than become a WoW machine and churn out crap instead of quality art. You don't need a massive population (infact with PS2 limitations that would be incredibly bad) to keep this game going, as evidenced through all these years this game has been around. They are having monthly updates and the server numbers have gone up over the last few months.

[Damane]

That is where we are seeing things differently. When I pay for a product, I want to experience everything it offers. I don't buy a brand new video game and say "UGH I have to level and do the storyline to grind out gear in end game, they should so cut out that process" No I don't say that at all, I progress through the game as it was intended.

I do agree to some point with you, but FFXI is so old that it carries alot of dead weight with it that is really not needed. They need to cut off some of the dead weight to make it for newer players easier to access the endgame at lvl 99. Not saying the Dev team didnt do allready enough in that direction, infact they did, but there is still some things to improve on. I think the biggest help for newer players would be to set the double exp as standard and remove all limit quests except for the maat-equivalent solo fights.
Maybe even untie some endgame content that is bound by story progression, NOT all but some. Dynamis and Salvage for example. Of course the ones that need special area access should remain as they are.

[Draylo]

Those are the things that allow new players a reason to do things in the world though. Some of those limit breaks make the player go to different places they wouldn't normally to do things, like Xarcabard for fighting those NMs or the far entrance to Eldieme or sneaking past the beastmen for that specific one. When you constantly cut all the lore related quests and missions and make it irrelevant, you are killing some of the uniqueness of the game. It doesn't take long at all to do those and it allows a new player to experience FFXI's world when there would be 0 reason to go to those places normally outside of random quests. The whole entire game doesn't start at 99, I have no idea why people feel that is necessary. If anything I feel they should have left an option to keep story missions capped so people who want to experience it the proper way are able to.

[Afania]

Since you're blaming everything on what I said in another topic, so I'll reply.

I'm going to say that the old players need to stop looking at this game through nostalgia goggles. Times have changed. The game is not the same as it was before. You need to accept change, and move forward, or this game is going to suffer. There are a LOT of things that could be changed, and should be changed, for the game to move forward and prosper for years to come. However, it doesn't help when the majority of the community is straight up rude to new players, or thinks that it's right for them to "suffer the same way they did in the past." The response to practically anything I say is "YOU KNOW IT WAS SO MUCH HARDER IN THE PAST, YOU SHOULD STOP COMPLAINING." I spent a lot of time arguing/discussing various topics (mythic weapons, mission requirements, etc) with people on this forum, and boy, it's been an uphill battle. So many people want all the requirements to stay, and if you don't like it, "too bad this isn't the game for you." I still think this quote is hilarious:



I find it mind boggling that there are actually people, players, on this forum, that are telling newbies they should quit because they're finding it difficult. You guys are not doing much for your community, or your game, and yet you complain all the time that the servers are lacking people. This does not help. It also doesn't help that everyone in game is extremely quiet and does not want to talk to anyone unless you're already friends with them, and finding a group for anything is really difficult. Rarely do I see shouts for PUGs, and when I tried to join, yeah, you know what happened. I ended up making my own linkshell and shouted recruitment to try to get other new players to join so I could help them out and we could all talk. It worked for a while, I got about 6 other members; only 1 still plays (the others quit I assume, they haven't logged in for weeks).

Anyways, that's my story. At this point, I don't know what I want to do. If you read this far, thanks for caring. I've accomplished a lot, and I still don't know how much more there is to go, or if I'm ever even going to be able to do fun party fights with other people. A lot of the time I've spent playing I've looked forward to partying up with my friends, or even random people, to fight something difficult, a strong boss or something... and after one month, that never happened. Every time I get close to thinking I've accomplished something, something pops up in the way. A good example is the AF109; I gathered all the materials, then was told I have to finish Promathia first... that was very disheartening. Either way, I think I'm just burnt out, having to deal with all of this. I understand SE is trying to make things better, but the existing player base certainly isn't helping a lot of the time. I hope the game continues to improve into 2014, and I might resub at some point (I have the remainder of the month still going since I paid for 2 months), but for now, I think I just need a break at the very least.

I don't see much "negativity" by telling you to quit. It's a suggestion, you don't enjoy this game, so this game is simply not for you. I want new players that enjoys FFXI to play this game, but I don't want new players that doesn't like this game to play this game.


If you're going to view FFXI's using current-gen MMORPG formula, then yes it's work. If you don't want to play a game that feel like work, then don't play it. But there ARE ppl out there wants to play a game like 2nd life/work. It's the same reason why I don't enjoy Dark Souls because I hate dying over and over and walk all the way back to boss battle again, but some people enjoy it. Should I pop on a forum tell them to fix it? No, I simply just accept the fact that Dark Souls isn't for me and walk away.

I don't agree with FFXI should be super casual friendly in everything just because majority of players wants casual MMO. By number, casual market in gaming industry is always bigger, regardless of the genre. But that doesn't mean a 12 year old MMO that've been hardcore should change it's game direction by ditching it's old royal players. FFXI isn't going to get many new players because the UI/mechanic/graphic was subpar, it's first priority is to keep the old players by offering service they liked for past 12 years. If FFXI goes casual, it'll only piss off majority of old players AND it's not going to get that many new players anyways.

I think a lot of your "this isn't fun, this feel like work, why everything takes so long" attitude simply won't work in FFXI. Plenty of players play FFXI but not another MMO because of what FFXI is. I agree that pre-lv 99 FFXI is not as fun as how it used to be, due to the lack of player to pt with, and CoP nerf completely killed the sense of accomplishment of CoP. I agree that something should be done to fix it. But I don't agree with your opinion on Mythic, and I still don't understand why you'd worry about Mythic takes forever when you still haven't finish majority of content. Back when I decided to do a Mythic, I started it because I want to play this game for 5+ years, not because I want to finish the best weapon after a few months.

I've played quite a lot of MMORPG in my life, none of them last for longer than 2 months. FFXI is the only MMO last longer than 4 years, I played it daily and it's one game that changed my life. To me, this game is more than just a video game, but a 2nd life. I purposely choose to play this MMO, instead of GW2/WoW/SWTOR/FFXIV(none of the above title last longer than 2 months for me) and so on, because I want a 2nd life MMO but not "play for fun" MMO. If I want a "play for fun" MMO, I can always just reactivate my account in other titles.

As for the community, if your attitude is "I can't/don't know how to do this, please help me", I'm 100% sure plenty of players are willing to help. I've helped a lot of newer players back in the past, let new/returning players leech delve wins, give plenty of suggestions about how to gear jobs using my own time. And I've received a lot of help in noobie era too.

But if your attitude is "I don't like how this works, please change it.....wait you like how this works? NOSTALGIA GOOGLES!" Then obviously other people won't be happy. It's not the community is rude, it's you pop on a forum, wanting the game to change to something else. Criticizing certain aspect of this game using your own standard, then criticize anyone that disagree with your opinion.

How'd you feel if I criticize GW2 for the lack of holy trinity, or criticize SWTOR for being story focused, or criticize daoc and warhammer for being PVP focused?

Everything takes forever to do in FFXI, on the same time it feels nice to finally finish doing what you were doing in FFXI, has been the main appeal of FFXI for those who've been playing for years. I don't play GW2 if I want holy trinity, and IMO, FFXI simply isn't for you if you don't want to spend 3 years doing tons of boring stuff in a game. The way you view FFXI, by the time you really get every goal done, CoP done, lv 99 done, all AF 119 done, you still won't feel satisfied because all the higher lv content isn't any different from grinding CoP and mythic and so on, it still take forever, it still feels like work. All the endgame content in this game is still based on "living another life in a MMO". You're having unrealistic expectation toward this game and just wanted it to be something else. Even if everything is "fixed", you still won't have fun because your POV toward this game.

When I just started, I had the same opinion toward MMORPG too, game should be fun but not like life/work. So other FFXI players suggested me to quit. I didn't quit in the end, and there were time that I felt frustrated about this game too. But in the end, I received plenty of help from others and managed to complete majority of the goal in this game, now it's on the list of my favorite video game of all time...at least pre-SoA FFXI was. I changed my POV toward "game shouldn't feel like life/work", because the emotional attachment and sense of accomplishment is greater when the game is more than just a game.

FFXI is just different from other MMO, you either accept it's different and aiming for a niche market, or save $12 a month. Chang your attitude toward this game, play FFXI for the sake of living in the world of FFXI, not get the best gear and beat the most epic boss. Or else you'll never enjoy this game no matter what.