Religion in Vana'diel

[Bearstar]

They are pretty clear about Raogrimm being the reason they're awake to begin with. So they shouldn't be complaining that much about him being in their way, since otherwise they wouldn't be around to complain. What they are particularly vague about is what, exactly, the problem was. Eald'narche talks of "noise" (which was "finally gone") and "him." I could be reading too much into things, but it seems odd for Eald'narche to be referring to Raogrimm in the third person when he's sitting right there in the room (and is addressed in second-person elsewhere in the same dialog).

The Shadow Lord still had a critical role to play at the Chrysalis Core, in "Return to Delkfutt's Tower." So, again, not strictly a problem for their plans.

Damage to the Crystal Lines themselves strikes me as a potential problem, but they don't seem to mention it.

And don't get me started on the Shadow Lord himself.

What exactly is the source of his power (beyond "GALKA SMASH!" rage)? Is it from his pact with Odin or a bond with the Vahzl crystal? The former explains his affinity with the dark element and susceptibility to Demon Killer, but the latter explains why he (presently) looks like an oversized golem (arcana). It is possible that he first drew power from one and then the other. And if it is from his ties with Vahzl... how is that working? As a Galka, his affinity is supposed to be with Al'Taieu

It is not so much the Vahzl crystal persay but the fact he touched the Crystal Line. Part of his soul was within the Line, which is why you saw his memories when you touched the magicite in the mission Magicite and how he was resurected using those stones.

When he touched the crystal, that set a percussion wave through the system that disrupted their hibernation. This woke them up, but after Roagrimm made his pact with Odin and the Shadow Lord used his connection within the Line into his own private magical supercharger, the "noise" prevented the proper use of the equipment. Not to spoil the ending of Zilart, but you win not by killing the princes but adding new noise into the line shutting the whole thing down.

When it comes to the crystalis core, something about a Galka's evolution into a Taleskeeper makes them compatable with the core. If they knew about Gumbah they probably would have grabbed him, but since Raogrimm was a demon, they needed the girl who could "resinate with the beastmen" or instinctively understand the language (personally I think Verena has a full blown Whisper) and use her as an extention cord between him and the core.

[Bearstar]

I believe you're confusing the Celestial Avatars (sleeping gods) with the Terrestrial Avatars (creatures who are powerless/mundane in Paradise).

I'm thinking in terms of a ladder. As you cut off a bottom step it lowers the importance of the remaining steps. Yes the Terrestrial gods will become animals, but just as people were created by the gods, the gods were created by the Crystal. Without people below them they become the "created" and not the "creators" and become the "people" rung on the ladder.

[Metaking]

and everyone will be super than noone will be - Syndrome

but thinking about it i doubt alex would care one way or another but odin a being that lives on strife hate and war, paradise would be hell, i wouldn't be surprised if he dint actively try and stop it, nice bonus that his rival would never fully awaken as well.

o going through Rise of the zil agin i noticed something odd Aldo's sister says the shadow lord was controlling her during during the events of "return to Delkfutt's Tower", and not the prince im guessing its a translation error tho >.>

[Bearstar]

But who was controling the Shadow Lord's head? It would be the prince.

[Bearstar]

Fluas nun sango senkulpa
Sur Vana'diel, vasta ter'
Tremas la tuta mond'
Pro l' plago en desper'

Preventas gin
Nenia sort'
Haltigas gin
Nenia fort'

Sed tra la nokto tempesta
Brilas jen stelo de glor'!
Kontrau brutala kri'
Fontas jen kant-sonor'!

Stelo brilanta, kanto sonanta:
Revo kaj prego por ni!

Vana'diel! Vana'diel!

Mano kaj man' kunpremitaj
Trans la eterno sen lim'
Ne dismetigos plu
Ne disligigos plu!

English translation
-----

Now flows innocent blood
On Vana'diel, a vast land
The entire world trembles
In despair from the scourge

Prevented
By no fate
Stopped
By no strength

But through the stormy night
Behold: a star of glory shines!
Against a brutal outcry
Behold: a hymn springs forth!

A shining star, a ringing song:
Dream and pray for us!

Vana'diel! Vana'diel!

Hand and hand together
Across the limitless eternity
We will no longer be put asunder
We will no longer be bound!

now assuming this song could be sung as a duet "we will no longer be put asunder" would work nicely with the ending of the concept of being eternally free of something (altana) and "we will no longer be bound" screams promy wanting to be with her instead of chained by himself.

i mean to me the whole song screams a duet between lovers. also i cant find it, but im sure something in acp said the world would be destroyed by love >.>;

Is this the lyrics from the version sang by the orchestra? Because the lyrics between the two are different. If you read the mission An Eternal Melody it gives the first two verses:

It all began with a stone, or so the legend says.

In ages past, a sentient jewel filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods.

Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss until, after a time, the gods fell into slumber.

That world was called Vana'diel.

Our world, Vana'diel...

However, this age will not last. The great bane will devour the fair land of Vana'diel.

The ancient seal will be broken, awakening nightmares of ages past.

A tragic age of darkness will reign.
And yet, the gods will not wake from their slumber...

That world was called Vana'diel.

I believe the song "Warroirs of the Crystal" is based off of a mix of verse 2 and 3 but otherwise the last 3 verses are not spelled out.

The great bane will devour the fair land of Vana'diel...

The ancient seal will be broken, awakening nightmares of ages past.

The blood of innocents will soak the earth, and the world will fall into fear and despair.

But as one bright star shines through the clouds at night, and as one song rings clear above the roar of beasts, we hold to one hope in these darkest of times.

That they will come, with the wisdom of ages and the strength of thousands, to deliver us from our plight. We await the awakening of the Warriors of the Crystal.

ACP does give fragments of verses but where they fit and order is up for debate.

Innocent blood spills forth onto the plains of Vana'diel.
The world shudders as she is thrust into chaos and despair.
Neither power nor destiny...
...can bring and end to what has already begun.


But as one bright star shines through the clouds at night...
And as one song rings clear above the roar of beasts...
We hold to one hope in these darkest of times.
That star is you, and the song is yours.
And someday, that hope will become our dreams...
Our prayers...
Shine forth, star of hope!
Let your song ring out across all of Vana'diel!
By the strength of our hopes and our prayers...
What was split asunder...
...Will once more become whole.
Complete and inseparable for all eternity.



As the legend began, so too does it end...
with a stone.

In ages past, the Dawn Goddess,
stricken with grief, sought to restore life
to her fallen beloved by bestowing unto him
the light of the true crystal.

The crystal shattered, and in the bodies of
countless mortals the Twilight God was reborn.

The crystal's holy light extinguished evermore,
Paradise was no longer, and a new world of
mortals was birthed in its stead.

That world was called Vana'diel.

[Metaking]

But who was controling the Shadow Lord's head? It would be the prince.

true but generally someone being controlled has no willpower of there own and i remember her saying something along the lines of being controlled by the shadowlords will alone tho your probably right it just strikes me as odd. Also i believe the version i posted is the orchestrated version, which was before acp and i always assumed was the last verse, and still seems a lot more dangerous for mortals to hear than " As the legend began, so too does it end...
with a stone.

In ages past, the Dawn Goddess,
stricken with grief, sought to restore life
to her fallen beloved by bestowing unto him
the light of the true crystal.

The crystal shattered, and in the bodies of
countless mortals the Twilight God was reborn.

The crystal's holy light extinguished evermore,
Paradise was no longer, and a new world of
mortals was birthed in its stead.

That world was called Vana'diel. "

tho i guess it would destroy most of the games religions >.>

O and while somewhat on the crystals why where there never any beastmen crystal warriors i mean looking at the tonberry its obvious the beast men were also made at the same time as the 5 primary races... i mean only real thing i can think of is the primary races are the zil and all the beastmen sprung from the Kuluu tho i cant think of this subject ever being touched other than(and we know this is wrong) that promy made all the beastmen to appose altana.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

o going through Rise of the zil agin i noticed something odd Aldo's sister says the shadow lord was controlling her during during the events of "return to Delkfutt's Tower", and not the prince im guessing its a translation error tho >.>

Don't forget that the Shadow Lord is more of a peer than an underling in the grand scheme of things. Remember that he was present at Apocalypse Nigh.

[Rustic]

Spolier warning:




Let's look at it this way. Raogrimm basically dies. His original body is broken and useless. The pact crafts him a new, artificial form courtesy of Odin (thus it's weakness to Demon Killer- it's made the same way the Kindred were, even if it's occupied by a Galkan soul). It draws power via the Galka sin of Rage, but from the act of betrayal by a Hume- thus, Vahzl is being tapped to sustain it.

[Bearstar]

The tonberry are basically what happens to a soul that has eternal life but not eternal youth. With the emptiness removed they rotten and decayed over 10k years into there current form. The other beastmen races are never spelled out except when those races are kimeras. But Esha does say that the myth of promathia's creation of them is wrong. But how ever they were crafted they are equal to the five races as they both react to the song the same way in a cs in the final part of ACP.

And to Rustic's comment I still do not believe what crystal he touched matters. He was attacted to the Crystal Line. My proof is the final fight in RotZ, one of the set of final cs's in Dynamis-Tavnazia, and Apocolipse Nigh. That's all I can say without being spoiler blocked.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

My proof is... one of the set of final cs's in Dynamis-Tavnazia

Dammit! I'm allergic to endgamey stuff!

Still, at least that's more vaguely attainable for me than relic cutscenes...