In regards to the lack of communication on the NA side over the update issues

[Demon6324236]

So try to act high and mighty

Not everyone cares about this stuff as much as you official forums casual players do and most of us would prefer being able to continue content that truly matters like NNI, Legion and Prov that you probably aren't good enough to get into or complete anyways.

Your acting high and mighty too, except on a basis that you apparently believe people are casual players and would have no idea what its like to have problems with the endgame content you mention. I agree with you on this subject for the most part, and I doubt anyone is happy with any of these problems. I normally do quite a bit of VW, since the update I have been unable to actually bother with it because people DC so often in it that it becomes a waste of time. Dynamis also becomes a problem when you DC, only to pop up in the middle of a swarm of mobs, and get killed instantly, ending your run. It also hurts time for Salvage runs.

No matter what content you do, be it Dyna, VW, Legion, NNI, anything, this problem effects every one of us. Also, who are you to say what content matters? My Dyna runs matter to me, my Salvage runs matter to me, doing VW and being able to do 6 kills without half the party DCing at some point during it matters to me. In either case, the last time I remember this game getting a refund on money, was back when the servers were going down completely for days in 2011 due to the Tsunami.

If what Arcon said was right

re-roll something that affected you personally negatively at the cost of affecting everyone else negatively by denying them new content (and very likely the progress/achievements they've made since then, as a rollback of game information would most likely be connected to a rollback of character information as well).

Then this also would rollback the progress of anything else done in the game since the update, for some this could be small, and trivial, maybe even nothing at all, for others... An entire ls might have went out and made someone an Emp in the last 2 days, went out and did an Ukon, now whoever got their Ukon loses it, and their LS doesnt feel like going to do it again only days later, so no Ukon for them. Thats not to mention that also as its said, this removes content we just got. I myself like getting new content, more to do, I am restricted to the endgame content I do because of my choice to remain in my own ls which is primarly social, so content like this which is on a small scale and reletivly simple in nature is something I am happy to see, taking it away would only piss me off, especially if they can fix these problems without doing that, and only need a bit more time. So far as I have seen, this problem is starting to disipate anyways, as I have not had a problem with DCing on either of my 2 characters I have been dualboxing today, and have had no DC complaints in my LS either.

[Zhronne]

Can we please stop to turn this discussion into the typical "let's bash user X"?

Someone makes a post.
Another one replies "STFU you have no experience so you can't talk"
He gets back "well actually I do have a bit of experience"
Then people judge him arrogant and start bashing him saying his opinion is invalid.

I hate when this happen. Can we please go back into judging what someone says instead of judging WHO said it?
Wether or not Staren is perfectly qualified to say the things to said (looks to me that he's more qualified than 90% of the people on these boards, but I might be wrong) has very little to do with what he said.
Seems to me his rant is very much understandable and built on solid bases.

If you don't agree say why and develop a well-written post and "bash" what he said, instead of WHO said it.

[Demon6324236]

What he said made since, yes, but it doesn't mean its likely. I also disagree with the idea of undoing the update entirely, and moving everyone back to the way they were before the update. Refunds for everyone? Cool, not a bad idea with all the problems its causing, we should be told what the JPs are told? Again I agree, this is something that needs fixed badly, I remember back at Vanafest where our Reps forgot to tell us about /fume in VW... But the idea of taking back the update for now, is an idea I just don't like, and the fact what I read seemed to be an attack on the credibility of someone voicing their opinion, as a reason for doing so, is all the more reason I disagree with it being done.

[Mirage]

Are the crashes still happening, btw? I haven't crashed even once since the version update, even though I have been playing a lot, so I wouldn't notice any difference if they fixed it.

[Zhronne]

Good, that's something positive for the discussion. Say what you like/unlike and what you agree or don't agree with.
There's no need to delegitimate the person making the post just because you don't like what he says but have no clue how to counter-argument it.

For instance I do concur with your last post, undoing the patch is just pure fantasy. Expecting a better communication and faster handling of the issue is the least we deserve though.
What worries me most is the fact they seem to not have a clue about what is happening.
I haven't logged since sunday because of RL issues (day before patch) and seems to me this patch is the most buggy ever released.
Crashes, wrong items displayed and whatever else.
Wow...
Looks like a big fail.

Also this patch included the items for the Xmas event. I guess it's safe to jump to the conclusion that we'll not see another content patch until AFTER xmas? Whoa...

[Dazusu]

So please tell me again what experience I lack.

Sorry, I didn't realise Final Fantasy XI was mission critical software powering the medical field. For someone as intelligent as you appear to be, your opening post is thoughtless drivel. Comparing your experience of bugs in software that power the medical field to an online game, I mean... really?

[Staren]

Dazusu you didnt read anything following that. Especially my second post listing out only one of the companies I worked at that implement these common standards was a medical field. Others I have worked at were architectural companies, oil companies, and non profit government agencies. This is a common standard across the United States and even Western Europe. Internationally companies can choose to adopt these standards which are in fact only best business practices we enforce here due to issues like Enron. The example I often give is the movie Office Space. Without standards like these developers can push code that siphons away money, or user information, or just bad code that keeps the company from running for several days.

I apologize for the inflamation of my last post Demon6324236 it was late and I had been having trouble sleeping. Obviously everyone believes their content is completely valid and you are right about the fact that a complete rollback of data would cause people to lose content. If SE is not following any of these standards a removal of the code would require a complete rollback. Which as I stated in the second post they should have done immediately when they noticed people crashing and had no clue why not stalling out three days allowing people to have created a distance and difference in the backups which would cause as you put Ukons being unbuilt etc. I can see that being an issue. The hope would be if SE kept builds version controlled using the right Source Control systems they could just rollback their code for and server side sql changes using rollback scripts that targeted only the update data without having to affect user data and push the dats from the old build from a client side update til this is fixed. The last thing you want to do is lose user data after a build deployment if you dont catch it immediately. So I was not implying they should roll back our character information. Though thinking about it if they didnt follow standards for this release they probably dont have the others that are commonplace in place.

I've had a few friends still reporting issues with crashing and bg/xiah threads were still reporting crashing issues as of yesterday after the 5am est patch. So as far as I know this issue hasnt been completely wiped and the JP DEV post looked to come an after the fix and the response seemed very much to be the QA team had no clue how to replicate the issue.

[Vold]

Maybe they don't have the luxury of having the champion of computer technology working at their company to solve problems within a day. Maybe they have to make due with newbies. But there is no preaching to them about how it's not acceptable when the game is practically up 24 hours a day aside from the once every few years problem that causes everyone to DC a lot. It's not necessarily an exclusive problem to them alone. See this is what happens when we take technology for granted. It's impossibly complicated for the average Joe and Jane to understand. We think it's a piece of cake. You just stick the thing into the thing and BOOM! it works. To the person who specializes in it i.e. understands technology it's nothing special. You do it for a living. But once in awhile you should step back and examine just what it is you're doing and try to view it as an outsider and you too will agree that hey, this shit's pretty complicated, hardware and software alike.

There's a good reason why people in the field get paid a shitthousand dollars every year to do what they do. But not all of them are geniuses that can fix a difficult DC problem before lunch at 12. All those wiz kids that could pull that off stat are probably working for their respective governments. Or Microsoft. Or NASA. The rest of the world has to make due with what they can get their hands on for talent and so that means we wait.

[Tanama]

In regards to the lack of communication on the NA side over the update issues

It looks like the Community team is very busy with FFXIV: ARR. In the last three days the FFXIV forum has 10 replies while this forum has only one. (Discounting the Mog house contest, of course.)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...archid=8060312

See the link above.

[Arcon]

If you don't agree say why and develop a well-written post and "bash" what he said, instead of WHO said it.

If someone says "turd sandwiches are good because I say so and I have experience because I've been eating them for a long time", would you develop a well-written post countering that argument with health concerns and hygiene issues?

There's nothing to develop here. There's no meaningful discussion to be had, because it's not a meaningful topic. Game rerolls are a horrible idea and should only be used in extreme cases (in theory, pretty much never in reality). A few crashes for certain people are a problem, and a big one, but one that should be fixed, not ignored and washed away to try again. (And they did fix a big cause of the crashes, although apparently not everything.) A reroll would not only wash away everything the people did in that time, but also fuck up their own release schedule and establish peoples' opinion and views of them as being inconsistent and unreliable. It would make people afraid to do anything relevant after an update, because they wouldn't want to risk letting any progress they make go to waste again.

What they should have done (and remember for the future), is to test the stuff more thoroughly and not release half-baked code in the first place. This issue should have never arisen. But since it did, they did the right thing and fixed it (at least partially, remains to be seen if they fix it entirely).

Dazusu you didnt read anything following that. Especially my second post listing out only one of the companies I worked at that implement these common standards was a medical field. Others I have worked at were architectural companies, oil companies, and non profit government agencies. This is a common standard across the United States and even Western Europe. Internationally companies can choose to adopt these standards which are in fact only best business practices we enforce here due to issues like Enron. The example I often give is the movie Office Space. Without standards like these developers can push code that siphons away money, or user information, or just bad code that keeps the company from running for several days.

And I'm saying all of that is entirely irrelevant, same as everything from your previous post. I never questioned your qualifications, because I don't need to, because they don't matter. It's simply not up to you to decide what's acceptable, no matter who you think you are, what you do or what you know. And no standard says they need to reroll releases if they don't conform to some imaginary quality guidelines. What's acceptable is decided by the community, and if they go along with it, it is accepted, period. So you're unqualified by definition, regardless of your qualifications.