About the Abyssea areas

[Krystal]

No one is forcing anyone to exp in Abyssea. Players who wish to grind their levels the old fashioned way have that option. Personally, I appreciate being able to take a job up to 90 in a week or two if I want to try it out. Leveling isn't hard, but being competent, well-geared, and properly skilled requires just as much effort as it did before Abyssea's release.

It's a long-standing tradition at this point for malcontents to blame the "Death of FFXI" and all of their in-game woes on the most recent expansion or patch. To be honest, it becomes increasingly difficult for any experienced player to take rants like this seriously because of how common they are. With any given change in the game, some people will like it and some will not. However, what really does bother me about this particular wave of criticism is that those unhappy with Abyssea seem to blame Abyssea for bad players while negating said player's responsibility for their own actions.

No matter what system SE decides to implement in FFXI, someone, somewhere will figure out how to abuse it. Even if Abyssea EXP and/or entry requirements were nerfed, people could just Summoner Burn if they were so inclined. The problem is not Abyssea, or any other game mechanic. If players burn themselves up to 90 and then don't buy spells, skill up their weapons/magics, or buy even basic gear, then the player themselves is the one at fault. They are responsible for their own character, their own skills, and their own spells.

Now here's what people fail to realize: If you're somehow being inconvenienced by one of these lazy players, e.g., you're in a Dynamis or an Abyssea group with a WHM who doesn't have Raise 2 or Curaga 3, you can always elect to not participate with said person or to inform your group's leader and ask that said person be replaced by someone with proper spells and skills. This is not as hard as it sounds. Many people are absolutely terrified of being "rude" to lazy players these days, and because of this they end up very frustrated. I would be frustrated too if I was "forced" to do things with obviously incompetent people for the sake of being polite or nice.

However, the nice thing about Abyssea is that you don't need a swarm of 18 people to get anything done right now. If you yourself are a competent person, you will doubtlessly be able to find a couple other sensible, competent people to complete Abyssea and other events with. Who cares what lazy people do? How does it affect you? As much as I dislike the age-old "$12.95" argument, as long as someone is not actively interfering with my ability to enjoy the game I could really care less what they do.

SE is just as fault as the players are. perhaps they knew players would abuse the system..perhaps they didn't...but that don't change the fact that abyssea IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. and don't feed me the "people complain all the time about an expansion killing the game" line. because in this cause IT IS VALID. before abyssea was introduced. i could find a party in nearly 30 mins flat for most areas. i was helping new players each day because i was able to group together players to help them level and learn their job. now i find myself unable to help new players and see them leave FFXI less than a week after they joined. so yes... ABYSSEA IS AT FAULT. but so are the lazy players.

[Greatguardian]

SE is just as fault as the players are. perhaps they knew players would abuse the system..perhaps they didn't...but that don't change the fact that abyssea IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. and don't feed me the "people complain all the time about an expansion killing the game" line. because in this cause IT IS VALID. before abyssea was introduced. i could find a party in nearly 30 mins flat for most areas. i was helping new players each day because i was able to group together players to help them level and learn their job. now i find myself unable to help new players and see them leave FFXI less than a week after they joined. so yes... ABYSSEA IS AT FAULT. but so are the lazy players.

Abyssea is a system. Players can abuse that system if they choose.

Steak knives are sharp. People can stab each other with them if they choose.

Is it the steak knife's fault for being sharp? The knife manufacturer should have known that selling sharp objects to people would result in people stabbing each other.

Instead of blaming Abyssea, you'll do a lot more to fix the "problem" by simply not working with lazy players. If players find themselves unable to get a group for things because they're unskilled, ungeared, and lack important spells, then they're more likely to put some modicum of effort into their characters. That, or they'll complain about it incessantly in Port Jeuno. Either way, it doesn't really bother me since I won't be playing with them anyways.

I quote "problem" because this is exactly what happened years ago when ToAU was released. Everyone was so upset over new players being able to get 1-75 in a month spamming Colibri compared to their old school Moon and Bibiki haunts. There will always be bad players. No, leveling up slower and less efficiently will not make them learn their jobs, level their skills, or buy their spells. Unless you actually want to go exp in Ro'Maeve, I don't think you have much ground to stand on here.

[Quedari]

Noobs will be noobs regardless of how fast or slow they level a job. Many people in my LS have leveled many jobs from 30 to 90 in just a few days. We gear correctly and play the jobs just fine. We go skill up our weapons and magic to make our jobs more useful, and skilling up takes a lot less time than leveling "old school". A "good" player can play any job in this game just from watching what other players do right and wrong. Abyssea doesn't make bad players. Bad players make bad players.

[Leylia]

Abyssea is a system. Players can abuse that system if they choose.

Steak knives are sharp. People can stab each other with them if they choose.

I am sorry to say it, but this is a lousy comparison. Especially with your conclusion that follows after it. The major difference you do not want to see is: in the first case the abuse of the "Abyssea system" can be prevented very easily by adding the said level requirement at 75+. With the knifes, not so much. The comparison would be valid if there was a simple way to shut of access to the knife for such misuses of the knife, like a mood detector or what not. So before using something so unfitting, better keep RL comparisons out of the thread.

And btw you keep ignoring one of the main issues: you keep telling we do not have to use abyssea we can decide on our own not to do it and party outside. This is true, as long as there are people to party with outside. However, many cases have proven that this isexactly one of the issues, the one you keep neglecting. See my example of "No, I only accept Abyssea invites" So despite true in theory, it is false in reality.

So lets resume this: There is a system which can be abused, that abusage causes major issues for several other systems involved in the game which would be much more hard to fix, however there is a simple fix to prevent this said abusage. Where would you search the fault? If you still don't get the point I don't know.

With one thing you are right though: there always will be bad players, there will always be players unwilling to buy their spells and what not. The thing is: this is NOT the only issue and that it makes THIS issue much more apparent

[Krystal]

I am sorry to say it, but this is a lousy comparison. Especially with your conclusion that follows after it. The major difference you do not want to see is: in the first case the abuse of the "Abyssea system" can be prevented very easily by adding the said level requirement at 75+. With the knifes, not so much. The comparison would be valid if there was a simple way to shut of access to the knife for such misuses of the knife, like a mood detector or what not. So before using something so unfitting, better keep RL comparisons out of the thread.

And btw you keep ignoring one of the main issues: you keep telling we do not have to use abyssea we can decide on our own not to do it and party outside. This is true, as long as there are people to party with outside. However, many cases have proven that this isexactly one of the issues, the one you keep neglecting. See my example of "No, I only accept Abyssea invites" So despite true in theory, it is false in reality.

So lets resume this: There is a system which can be abused, that abusage causes major issues for several other systems involved in the game which would be much more hard to fix, however there is a simple fix to prevent this said abusage. Where would you search the fault? If you still don't get the point I don't know.

With one thing you are right though: there always will be bad players, there will always be players unwilling to buy their spells and what not. The thing is: this is NOT the only issue and that it makes THIS issue much more apparent

EXACTLY! people are constantly dancing around the real issue...which i find epically retarded...what it boils down to it this....people want to keep the cap at 30 so they can charge their level 30s in burn to 90 and then hap-hazardly skill up somehow elsewhere. but this is JUST THE PROBLEM becuase people are charging into abyssea no sooner they hit 90 the new players who come to the game and hard core players who enjoy old school style parties are being hurt. and frankly..the old school players and the new players are out-weighing the scales here as far as i can tell. players may bitch if the cap is raised to 70 or 75..but guess what? it will be as it was before then. players working together to earn their levels. which means you'll get more out of the game. frankly i'd rather take a months to a year and fully enjoy the game then blast to 90 and be bored in less than a month....

[Cream_Soda]

Like I said in your other thread.

If you're a good player, you can pick up a lv 90 account and have it down within a day or two, even if you've never played the job before.

"earning" levels really does nothing.

Research your job, skill up as necessary and you'll be fine.

You think all the people who lv sync the majority of their levels will have capped skills hitting 90 as well?

[Wenceslao]

Abyss hasn't killed the game, we are killing it by doing only abyssea pt, abyssea missions, abyssea quest, and abyssea related tasks, i think there's a lot of people who still would like to finish Missions, to do BCNM, to get assaults or other end game activities, new players uses abyss leeching because there are not enough low leveled players lfp, SE tried to solve these issue by raising exp received from mobs and doing FoV usable mora than once in a in-game day, now we have the oportunity to give new life to the zones now forgoten in favor of abyssea, peronally i enjoy more a normal yhutunga, yhoator, quicksands, garbage s#@tadel, aht urgan pt, than leeching all the way, we should help new players with this, putting the example, how many of us has spent hours leveling his/her job in these camps, or skillung up on Boyada Tree, we can show them how is done by reviving these zones by ourselves, i think there's a lot of new players who still don't know the old camps, who still need help with missions, or something alike.

[Greatguardian]

I am sorry to say it, but this is a lousy comparison. Especially with your conclusion that follows after it. The major difference you do not want to see is: in the first case the abuse of the "Abyssea system" can be prevented very easily by adding the said level requirement at 75+. With the knifes, not so much. The comparison would be valid if there was a simple way to shut of access to the knife for such misuses of the knife, like a mood detector or what not. So before using something so unfitting, better keep RL comparisons out of the thread.

And btw you keep ignoring one of the main issues: you keep telling we do not have to use abyssea we can decide on our own not to do it and party outside. This is true, as long as there are people to party with outside. However, many cases have proven that this isexactly one of the issues, the one you keep neglecting. See my example of "No, I only accept Abyssea invites" So despite true in theory, it is false in reality.

So lets resume this: There is a system which can be abused, that abusage causes major issues for several other systems involved in the game which would be much more hard to fix, however there is a simple fix to prevent this said abusage. Where would you search the fault? If you still don't get the point I don't know.

With one thing you are right though: there always will be bad players, there will always be players unwilling to buy their spells and what not. The thing is: this is NOT the only issue and that it makes THIS issue much more apparent

I'm sure people would find a way to abuse Abyssea even if there was a level 75 requirement. This is what people do. When they want to abuse something, they find a way. Also, players are not children. You are required to be at least 13 years old to play this game, and Square Enix Inc. takes that into account when designing content. Last I checked, high schools, universities, and businesses did not stock Safety Scissors.

Regardless, you're saying the problem with Abyssea is that it prevents you from finding people to level with in the overworld. At the same time, other people are saying that this is a widespread complaint and there are a decent amount of people who are upset about Abyssea and want to do things the old fashioned way. These two ideas are mutually exclusive. If enough people dislike Abyssea leveling for it to be a valid complaint and not just the musing of an incredibly vocal minority, then these same people should realistically be capable of finding other like-minded people to EXP with. They may even, le gasp, create a linkshell together specifically to get together and exp in the overworld. Heck, the server merge should make this even easier!

Do you not see the fundamental flaw with your argument though? "Other people are doing things differently than I like. No one wants to do things the way I want to do them. Fix it so that everyone has to do things the way I want."

I'm not trying to be some casual "It's just a game" parrot here. In actuality I'm a complete elitist jerk. 110%. I chuckle when I see really dumb shouts, or people doing really dumb things. But in the end, absolutely none of it changes the way I play and enjoy the game. Being one of the few remaining players these days who actually did go exp in Bibiki and Ro'Maeve back when they were leet exp, I'll tell you right now I have no real desire to grind out for two weeks of absolute boredom just to get a job from 37 to 90. Some people enjoy pressing the same macros 500,000 times over. You're more than welcome to it. But don't expect me to change my playstyle to fit your needs, just as I won't expect you to change yours to fit mine. You can continue calling every Abyssea-leecher a lazy gimp all you want, and I'll continue laughing at Perle gear. Just don't expect the system to change to suit your style. You don't want to know what the "Elitist Jerk" community could come up with if "Consumer pressure" and ranting threads on the official forums actually influenced FFXI_Dev.

[Cream_Soda]

If they raised the lv cap in abyssea, people would just get rich off smn burn pulls again and that'd be the popular thing at 600+/kill

[Krystal]

Like I said in your other thread.

If you're a good player, you can pick up a lv 90 account and have it down within a day or two, even if you've never played the job before.

"earning" levels really does nothing.

Research your job, skill up as necessary and you'll be fine.

You think all the people who lv sync the majority of their levels will have capped skills hitting 90 as well?

THAT'S NOT THE DAMNED POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once again beating around the REAL ISSUE New players are leaving the game no sooner they join because NO ONE IS IN NORMAL ZONES TO TEACH THEM! or they are like most MMO players and want to party with others rather than solo,besides it's not a matter of burning to 90 THEN researching the job...the bases of earning the levels and working with other players is to learn it naturally....not read some damned tutorial manual and go"okay..i got it!" *goes and gets self killed 10 times over* *goes back and reads again* "oh, i know i got it this time!" *gets self killed 10 more times* that's the difference between learning the job naturally and reading some damned tutorial page.