To: Mr Akihiko Matsui

[Mirage]

I think most people in here are listening about as much as you are.

[Eyeballed]

But you were the healer in the situation and everyone died.

It's possible that an uncapped healing magic, lack of MP, lack of cure gear, or anything else, would have been your fault and would contribute to the fall of your run. Not one player does make a trio. I'd make sure those were on cap and then retry it again with a different ninja.

Good luck!

Remind me again who died? Sorry, I guess I missed that.

[Eyeballed]

If he'd leveled the classic way, he might not have had nin past 50 yet. Do you think a 50 nin would have spent hours skilling up yet, or do you think he would start doing that as he hit the cap?

Sorry Eyeballed, I don't think the nin would have been any better if you had it your way.

Ninja starts getting Ni nukes and debuffs around Lv41; Do your job right and there won't be any of this manual-skillup corner-standing.

[scaevola]

Ninja starts getting Ni nukes and debuffs around Lv41; Do your job right and there won't be any of this manual-skillup corner-standing.

No. I actually leveled NIN to the mid-50s in 2005 and exercised due diligence in keeping Ninjutsu capped. Until you actually get those Ni nukes, NIN lacks a reasonable way to skill up ninjutsu; Ichi nukes do insignificant damage and have a long cast time, so it's impossible to do reasonable damage (and thus tank) with them. Even if you could, you still don't even get THOSE until 15, at which point you're horribly behind skill already. You can only get skillups off unresisted spells, meaning you have to devote solo time to getting Ninjutsu close to cap before you can start landing the unresisted spells on ITs you'll need to keep it up while leveling.

There was, simply put, no way to level ninjutsu in an XP party without devoting possibly tens of hours to the extremely expensive and unrewarding process of leveling it specifically. It is perhaps not unreasonable to expect a NIN to make an effort to leveling ninjutsu but at no point could that have ever happened without substantial extracurricular effort, 6-man parties or no.

If you wanted to make the case for old school partying, ninjutsu skill is basically the worst possible evidence you could have used.

[Eyeballed]

No. I actually leveled NIN to the mid-50s in 2005 and exercised due diligence in keeping Ninjutsu capped. Until you actually get those Ni nukes, NIN lacks a reasonable way to skill up ninjutsu; Ichi nukes do insignificant damage and have a long cast time, so it's impossible to do reasonable damage (and thus tank) with them. Even if you could, you still don't even get THOSE until 15, at which point you're horribly behind skill already. You can only get skillups off unresisted spells, meaning you have to devote solo time to getting Ninjutsu close to cap before you can start landing the unresisted spells on ITs you'll need to keep it up while leveling.

There was, simply put, no way to level ninjutsu in an XP party without devoting possibly tens of hours to the extremely expensive and unrewarding process of leveling it specifically. It is perhaps not unreasonable to expect a NIN to make an effort to leveling ninjutsu but at no point could that have ever happened without substantial extracurricular effort, 6-man parties or no.

If you wanted to make the case for old school partying, ninjutsu skill is basically the worst possible evidence you could have used.

Please, read this carefully. If I had some crayons and a helmet, I'd draw you a picture:

NINJA LV99

[scaevola]

I was not the one who brought up ninjutsu as an example of how old XP styles made skilling up more fluid.

Ninjutsu is not only expensive to level but also generally lacks the sort of spammable self-buffs others use to level magic skills and does not get practical skill-up spells for a very long time. I wouldn't condone making it to level 99 with 100 skill but I seriously doubt old-school XP would have made this particular guy more inclined to keep it capped.

If it had really become a problem, it is much more likely he would have stopped playing NIN entirely, which is only a good result if you're a psychopath.

[FrankReynolds]

In all reality it probably has more to do with Gusgen & CN than Abyssea as the skill cap in question is only Lv40 (130?). The bigger point being if he had not the avenue to surpass what is essentially playing his job, then this would not have been an issue. Period.

Pretty much this:

Except, as we continuely told you, leveling a job has zero impact on whether a person has learned their job or not. There is a world of difference between (say for example) blink tanking for an experience party and doing an Under Observation run.

You will not come anywhere near capping ninjitsu just by using shadows and you will find very little use for casting anything else in an exp party on the way to 40 (or even 99 for that matter).

Your right about it not being an issue though. Like I said earlier, if he hadn't burned his ninja up, you wouldn't have this issue because you would have done nothing instead of going on a run.

If you would rather do nothing, then no changes need to be made to the game. You don't even need the game for that matter. As I also said earlier, there is a free jeuno chat watch window on FFXIAH.com. You don't even have to pay for a FFXI account to sit in town and do nothing.

Basically the guy lied to you and he sucked, but you chose to blame an arbitrary game mechanic for his behavior instead of him. I would really like to borrow some gil from you. I'm curious to see if you will blame the auction house or the magian moogles when I don't pay you back.'

Edit:

Please, read this carefully. If I had some crayons and a helmet, I'd draw you a picture:

NINJA LV99

Read this carefully: His ninja would probably not even be high enough to do the BCNM without having abyssea burned it.

[Mirage]

That last part made me smile, Frank .

[Modoru]

What you're saying is that I'm assuming a BLM in 2005 could have gotten to Lv75 basically without nuking. Preposterous.

Wait, I didn't get the memo where NIN was now a nuker with an extensive array of spammable spells that don't use up tools [which are limited] and an array of self-buffs to constantly spam in order to keep his skills leveled! This is good news for me! brb let me go spam the elemental wheel without tools to skill up, I might be done next year.

No offense, but comparing a NIN to a BLM is severely fallacious. NIN honestly has absolutely no need to use any ninjutsu at low levels other than Utsusemi, and even then the skills you obtain from Utsusemi are few and far in between. If you're expecting someone to spam their elemental wheel in an XP party instead of tanking normally, you have absolutely no idea how a ninja works [I'm inclined to believe].

Even then, post-50, your only real use for the elemental wheel is... procs?

...Where do you use procs anyway? Abyssea?

...VW? Gosh, I guess we have a problem then. I guess I'll just waste millions of shihei to get my skills capped then!

In all seriousness, a career ninja doesn't get his Ninjutsu capped very easily at all. Please realize this. Don't blame him for not having them capped. I understand you made a mistake in assuming he was somehow an amazing player that would effortlessly win the BCNM for you, but you'd be very surprised how many people suck at some of their jobs. Lack of knowledge implies lack of training, lack of training could easily make you aware that they do not spend a lot of time using the job, therefore their skills will be... lacking [redundancy!]?

Oh, and I've had my ninja for a long time, I still haven't finished capping ninjutsu. Sure, I have it past subjob level, but it took a very long time.

[Doombringer]

i returned because of abyssea. (well i returned out of curiosity, i STAYED because of abyssea) now that abyssea is over, i've left again.

i dunno where this "silent majority" of aby haters are. all my friends quit LONG before aby (i was the last holdout.) and i don't think i've met one player in game who hated aby. at least none ever mentioned it to me... and the fact that i suddenly had people to play with again makes me think they liked it.

no bullshit, i've met more PRO-rdmmelee players than ANTI-aby players. i'm fairly certain they're imaginary. even on these forums, which include players from every server at once, we get like... what, 5 of them?