Summoner need a Avatar Danage Adjustment.

[Sargent]

the avatars cost 15 mp a tick

HQ staff = -3
Relic +2 head = -2
Emp +2 body = -4
Emp+2 Feet = -3
Evoker ring = -1
Augur legs = -1

=-14 (will always cost 1)
and auto refresh gives you 2 mp a tick

Not to be pedantic, but Relic head is -3. The refresh from Stearc/Nares will be better in most situations than Augur's, and Nashira/Adhara Gages have -1/-2 perp. It really is possible to get free avatars without magians, perpetuation costs do not need adjusting.

[Anapingofness]

I agree that the avatars need to do way more damage period.

Their perp cost is quite annoying, always has been even with all of the -perp gear. Especially since summoner is limited by the bp timers. A melee or a mage will out damage them any day. The other pet job do not have as many restrictions as summoner because they are not MP based. Everything about summoner requires mp. To summon the avatar, to keep it out, to do blood pacts...

Even if you get the per prate to -1 mp per tick it will still be a pain because that -1 mp will add up with everything else.

The biggest problem, however, is the lack of damage. The bp's should be on par with melee weaponskills and mage spells at the very least and they're not.

I love the job, I really do but there is a reason that it's simply a side project for me. There are too many limitations to make it worth swapping out for in a party or alliance situations. It won't do as much damage as a normal melee or mage and it can't keep up with curing so it can't really help from that angle. At best it is a very situational job.

I wish they'd just make it an efficient solo class and move it away from this limbo it's been stuck in since the job came out.

[Arciel]

Perp cost is perfectly fine.

There is absolutely no need to get magians for perp cost. Decent to good gear on all other slots can afford you 3-5 mp/tic refresh with avatar out before considering Refresh from sub or external sources.

Damage isn't really an issue.

Thanks to no level correction, avatar damage per BP has always been decent/good. With some of the new gear available you can really make a significant difference in damage per pact.

Speed is the biggest problem.

With only 1 damage BP per 45s at best a SMN is literally held back by the BP timer now, especially when it can sit on a wellspring of MP at the same time. This is also highly impractical considering almost every other job has the means to crank out more damage in a short amount of time if they so desire it.

Put simply, for a SMN to use BPs, it has no place in zerg / burst damage situations, and needs something that allows it the flexibility to choose when it wants to push for more damage in a shorter amount of time.

Arguably if you're talking about DPS, higher spike damage from your pacts will bring that number up, but realistically speaking SMN damage is few and far between. More frequent BPs will net better utility than bigger damage spikes, especially if you're talking about the possibility of multiple targets.

The best solution that I think would work is really to have a JA that works on charges that resets BP timers.

For example, say this JA can charge up to 5 charges every 5 minutes. In a zerg scenario, a SMN would be able to put out 6 back to back BP:Rages, but won't be able to do the same for the next 5 minutes. It isn't exactly broken because a SMN is still ultimately limited by MP, but at least you're actually making more efficient use of it. You also can't use it to spam 2hrs because of the MP cost requirements.

Ok maybe once every 5 minutes may be too frequent, or not.. but you get the idea. And seriously even so I highly doubt it would come close to matching the output of melee zergers.

Alternatively, we have the possibility of the 2nd 2HR ability which allows SMN to work outside the constraints of BP timer, for 3 minute. That is to say, for 3 minutes, Blood Pact recast timer is 0. Once again, this is balanced out by the MP limiter. It'd be like a SMN Tabula Rasa.

anyway. tl;dr

Speed is the problem. Please fix.

[SkyVargrant]

my Summon Magic Skill is caped since a long time. Like i postet on my threath Summoner need new Equipment tough.

[Dantedmc]

My Suggestions for SMN:

General
-Lower the BP Cap to 12 seconds (-80%) in line with Fast Cast, Haste, and Recast caps
-Increase Avatar melee damage and possibly BP damage
-Enhance many of the ward BPs' potency

Favor Related
-Remove the negative penalties from avatar's favor
-Remove the charge up from favor, the favor should always be at full potency
-Change Titan's favor to pdt
-Change Fenrir' favor to mdt or mdb
-Increase the potency of Carby's favor and possibly Shiva's Favor

New Stances
-One new stance that increases BP damage
-One new stance that enhances Avatar's Favors

[SkyVargrant]

Right you are. Negative efect on Avatar's Favour is simply absolut unacessary. The other points i can just agree as well.
But Summoner need new gear tough. The Af3+2 is greates parts good, but with that is it not done. Why have Summoner only: Caller Earring, Caller Pendant and Caller Sash, when tonns of other good Equipment on this slots are aviable for all other Jobs. If i see a summoner running around, than he have Earring, Pendant & Sash equiped, because there is no other real option. That#s a absolut blame from SQ. Time that they finaly adjust the Summoner for good.

[Sargent]

my Summon Magic Skill is caped since a long time. Like i postet on my threath Summoner need new Equipment tough.

Equipment is much better at the moment, especially compared to what it was at 75. The only thing that needs adding equipment wise is a Physical attack head, and a second ring. Fervor is nice, but it's just skill. Every other job has some way to enhance damage on their rings.
Look into the possible rewards from A Crystalline Prophecy and A Moogle Kupo d'Etat keys. I agree, it's incredibly tedious to get said items, but the equipment is available (Earring/Back slots in this case).

My Suggestions for SMN:

General
-Lower the BP Cap to 12 seconds (-80%) in line with Fast Cast, Haste, and Recast caps
-Increase Avatar melee damage and possibly BP damage
-Enhance many of the ward BPs' potency

I agree, lowering the cap for BP delay to 12 seconds would be a saving grace to the job, and from a mage perspective, this makes sense. From SEs perspective, I think the 45s cap was to coinside with melee gear haste cap, which is 26%, so almost identical. But SMNs lagged behind since this is the only way to increase the rate of spike damage barring atma, whereas for other jobs, there's Haste/Hasso/Songs etc. If they were to lower the cap on BP timer to 12s, the gear isn't available for it, meaning the most resourced players still won't be able to achieve it, but it would show a massive difference between those who can be bothered to use said gear and gear swap, and those who just fulltime full AF3.
I agree with increasing standard melee damage, or at least making it so pet attack equipment or the like increases the damage. It is currently far too low. However, I think Blood Pact damage is fine.

Favor Related
-Remove the negative penalties from avatar's favor
-Remove the charge up from favor, the favor should always be at full potency
-Change Titan's favor to pdt
-Change Fenrir' favor to mdt or mdb
-Increase the potency of Carby's favor and possibly Shiva's Favor

At the moment, I don't even bother with Favor, and no one expects me to. It's partly because the buffs are weak nowerdays, but mostly because the people who know me know that the damage is lost when I use it, and they usually ask me to come SMN for the hateless, consistent damage. Diabolos's Favor is all I use it for. So yes, Favor does need an adjustment, especially considering other buffs. At the very least, with SE increasing Protect effects, maybe make Titan's Favor... half useful? I wouldn't say remove the penalty altogether, I see it as sort of a Summoner's Defender. The idea isn't to fulltime it. I would, however suggest that like Yonin and Innin, reduce the recast to 3mins so we can click it off and reuse it if the situation arises.

New Stances
-One new stance that increases BP damage
-One new stance that enhances Avatar's Favors

I like the first part, even if it is a lil unessesary with all the equipment nowerdays. However, I don't see a need to have a stance that enhances Favor, Favor just needs adjusting in general. To put it simply, I see Favor as it's own stance, it seems a bit weird to have a stance to enhance a stance.

[Vortex]

I agree with lowing the BP timer, as that is the biggest draw back to smn atm, and they can't throw the balance card because MP cost for all the major bps would stop you in your tracks if you use it enough times.

i would also really REALLY like to see a new, STRONG peircing BP right now the only ones we have are cresent fang and claw, the 2 low level bps. i was hoping a while back odin would have took care of that but my hopes were shot down when i found out he was 2 hour only.

and i don't know if it's ben said but prep cost is not a problem, i can even get free pets with B staff, none of the staves are needed, nor am i wasting space and time to make them.

and perhaps have SMN magic skill help damage as well.

[Sargent]

I agree, a decent Piercing pact is needed. I can see Cait Sith having one. Possibly. Stabbing with Claws?

[Babekeke]

Only extra Blood Pact I would ask for would be a piercing Blood Pact, the last we got was Crescent Fang at Lv.10.

Eclipse Bite at 65 is also piercing. @75 vs birds it was about on-par for damage with Predator Claws. Damage to MP ratio was significantly higher.