HNMs and the future of FFXI

[Habu]

You're ignoring the fact that these problems are in every known game. For every game there's a hack/cheat/bot no matter what the game is about. Complaining about is useless and pretty dumb, there's nothing SE nor any other company in the world can do about them. If you want to try and justify it by saying it gives an unfair advantage then what about bots in Abyssea, different tools to pop NMs as soon as the ??? is available. Fishing bots, crafting bots, lumbering, every aspect of the game there's something you can do to make it easier. Guess we should just take all content except communicating in the game away since it's "infected by bots and unfair advantages".

[Zerich]

You're ignoring the fact that these problems are in every known game. For every game there's a hack/cheat/bot no matter what the game is about. Complaining about is useless and pretty dumb, there's nothing SE nor any other company in the world can do about them. If you want to try and justify it by saying it gives an unfair advantage then what about bots in Abyssea, different tools to pop NMs as soon as the ??? is available. Fishing bots, crafting bots, lumbering, every aspect of the game there's something you can do to make it easier. Guess we should just take all content except communicating in the game away since it's "infected by bots and unfair advantages".

there's a difference between all of the aforementioned 'bots' and the bots that are involved with land kings. there is only one chance at them. if the bot claims, holds, and signals the party to kill, then that is a complete waste of time for everyone else who inhabits the server, for a few more days...minimum. go take your epeen, and shove it somewhere else, if that's the thrill you get.

[Habu]

There's no difference cheating is cheating, if one form of a bot is wrong then every other form of it should be crucified just as much. Don't pick and choose what forms you want to scrutinize. Again no one if forcing anyone to camp, if you don't like the system then don't participate it's that simple. Stop talking about how it will effect you personally, it's your choice to do them or not.

[Zerich]

There's no difference cheating is cheating, if one form of a bot is wrong then every other form of it should be crucified just as much. Don't pick and choose what forms you want to scrutinize. Again no one if forcing anyone to camp, if you don't like the system then don't participate it's that simple. Stop talking about how it will effect you personally, it's your choice to do them or not.

but when that becomes the main source of the "best-in-slot" gear, it becomes a part of the gameplay. that's what they were for their time of relevance. so they were a part of the game play. good riddance.

[Alhanelem]

Again no one if forcing anyone to camp, if you don't like the system then don't participate it's that simple.

Most of us have made that choice already. I again ask what's the point spending any time creating new content (REGARDLESS OF THE AMOUNT OF TIME REQUIRED TO MAKE SAID CONTENT) that nobody (and when I say nobody, I mean 'insignificant number') is going to participate in. Nobody does the current HNMs on a regular basis as it is. You can find many of them up and unclaimed- there is no sense of competition in this, so one of the things that was the source of enjoyment for regular participants just isn't there. Adding a couple more NMs with long repop timers and spawn windows that have sidegrade drops isn't likely to change that (I'll stop short of saying it wouldn't at all).

Stop talking about how it will effect you personally, it's your choice to do them or not.

They can talk about it all they want- it's relevant. It sends the accurate message that this kind of content isn't very strongly desired by the playerbase as a whole. If you really think lots of other people really like this idea, then get them to show their support. Then you might convince them it's content worth adding.

Complaining about cheaters is a legitimate point. With the content that came out later, it was harder to get a kind of advantage that significantly interfered with other people's ability to experience content- you can't claim bot assault or einherjar or voidwatch or nyzul- you can't ruin other people's experience in those events with a cheat. At HNM however, cheats ARE able to ruin other people's experiences.

Edit: Jesus Christ, I looked at the last page and Sparthos is on a roll- I don't always agree with you Sparthos but if there's one thing I can count on with you it's a detailed and informative expression of your thoughts. In this thread, he's right on the money.

No they were not hard at their respective levels as long as you had competent people playing with you.

Hm.... So, you beat Rani when it first came out the very first time with a group of other people also doing it the first time, and you did it without a brew? Yes, everything in abyssea is easy if you use a brew. But a brew is a purchasable easy button. You don't always have it handy- If you want to tell me that Rani and the other NMs mentioned on the previous page were "easy" then I want the drugs you were taking, because those fights were NOT easy when they were new. The only fights I would label "easy" are those that I and most people would beat on the first try with no prior knowledge and minimal effort. If it beats you at least once or you don't win 100% of the time, there is at least a minor difficulty factor to it.

[Natenn]

Abyssea & VWNM are pacifyers for 90% of whats left of the "community". The not adding world spawn HNM 21-24hr/2-3 day/3-5 day spawns are whats killing this game off mainly. Now that a noob can go from Lv1 to 99 in 3 days or less is crap too, i remember when SE made a huge deal over 500k ppl playing FFXI. This was in the glory days, back b4 RMT ruined gil HNM like Sim/Roc/KA/CC/Serket etc. My best memorys were back in the days starting in a tiny HNMLS logging at Bune or Sim b4 maint, or camping NQ Behe and hope HQ didn't pop when hides were 2M, growing over time into one of the powerhouse LSs killing Nidhogg/Cerb/Khim same day back when titles meant something. Now its like: full perle WARs with 85 Ukon Prov watcher = disgusting. The fact that the HNMs had a long repop kept crappy players from getting goods w/o trying. I loved outclaiming new LSs and every time they would cry bot, with 0 evidence. Casuals want everything handed to them. Nothing was wrong with 21-24 HNM with the exception that ppl could "bot".

[Habu]

I honestly don't know why people are still responding to this. People have a difference of opinion, I like HNMs, you don't, ok. Let's move on from that point, neither side is going to change their opinion, but saying things such as you're dumb if you want this, only scum botters like HNM brings it to a personal level. If you don't like them then simply post "I wouldn't really care for them to be reimplemented" or if you do "Sure sounds like a good idea" and move on. Saying one form of the game is better than another is an arbitrary remark because everyone likes something different, and saying something sucks is only going to offend someone/somehow.

I understand some of you like the game in its current state with Abyssea and VW but there are others out there like myself who enjoyed the game more in HNM days. Will anything you say on here change that, no, there's no point trying. I've stated my opinions as to why I like it, everyone has stated their respective opinion on why they don't, why continue this circular argument any further?

You've stated that claim bots ruled the HNM scene and I said there were bots in every aspect of the game, and in most cases every game invented. Yes they had more of an impact in HNM than other realms of the game because it effected others in real-time. People don't care as much about something unless it effects them directly, which is why many aren't bothered with those fishing/crafting/auto-spawning NMs/botting in Abyssea, because in most cases it wont effect you at this point in time. If you ask a crafter/fisher who is hardcore into that aspect how much he/she hates botters they might respond with "I worked hard to manually skillup my craft and make money but these people who botted it up are ruining my profits". Back when Abyssea was first being released it was a big issue, but now that a majority of people have finished what they want it's not a problem.

I agreed with the option that a few others have mentioned to bring back HNMs but make the drops also come from another source such as they did with Odin. Players like myself could still get their enjoyment out of camping them while others can still obtain the ideas through another source. I really don't see how this could make anyone mad, it seems like a pretty good resolution for the problem of people not wanting to camp to obtain said gear.

It's in the devs hands if they decide to do anything or not, anything we say/do at this point is most likely not going effect any of their decisions. So once again I purpose to drop this bitter back and forth arguing over personal satisfaction and how you get it from this game.

[Natenn]

Even then a bot was pointless, i outclaimed em enough that is worthwhile to still go, and no one "botted" tia at 75, no one camped EVERY window and tagged on pop with a bot.80% of time it was mules there or a PLD+ an ES Sleeper. i loved HNM, i loved the drama that came with it, i loved the jellyness of noobs who would tag SW/DI and die/let it go unclaimed or just flat out not claim bc they didnt bring powder boots. I really hope they bring it back, bc now theres no need for big LSs, no need to put forth work in getting items, and its just flat out a socializing game now. There is no real cohtent that is hard, its all zerg based or lets you crutch on atmas and procs.

[Zerich]

I honestly don't know why people are still responding to this. People have a difference of opinion, I like HNMs, you don't, ok. Let's move on from that point, neither side is going to change their opinion, but saying things such as you're dumb if you want this, only scum botters like HNM brings it to a personal level. If you don't like them then simply post "I wouldn't really care for them to be reimplemented" or if you do "Sure sounds like a good idea" and move on. Saying one form of the game is better than another is an arbitrary remark because everyone likes something different, and saying something sucks is only going to offend someone/somehow.

I understand some of you like the game in its current state with Abyssea and VW but there are others out there like myself who enjoyed the game more in HNM days. Will anything you say on here change that, no, there's no point trying. I've stated my opinions as to why I like it, everyone has stated their respective opinion on why they don't, why continue this circular argument any further?

You've stated that claim bots ruled the HNM scene and I said there were bots in every aspect of the game, and in most cases every game invented. Yes they had more of an impact in HNM than other realms of the game because it effected others in real-time. People don't care as much about something unless it effects them directly, which is why many aren't bothered with those fishing/crafting/auto-spawning NMs/botting in Abyssea, because in most cases it wont effect you at this point in time. If you ask a crafter/fisher who is hardcore into that aspect how much he/she hates botters they might respond with "I worked hard to manually skillup my craft and make money but these people who botted it up are ruining my profits". Back when Abyssea was first being released it was a big issue, but now that a majority of people have finished what they want it's not a problem.

I agreed with the option that a few others have mentioned to bring back HNMs but make the drops also come from another source such as they did with Odin. Players like myself could still get their enjoyment out of camping them while others can still obtain the ideas through another source. I really don't see how this could make anyone mad, it seems like a pretty good resolution for the problem of people not wanting to camp to obtain said gear.

It's in the devs hands if they decide to do anything or not, anything we say/do at this point is most likely not going effect any of their decisions. So once again I purpose to drop this bitter back and forth arguing over personal satisfaction and how you get it from this game.

because this is the internet, and a thread on the official forums.
we all feel strongly against your feelings and will keep presenting our opinions, experiences, and rhetoric to overshadow your "i want it, and want no one else to have it" mentality.
btw. your last paragraph completely invalidates any further attempts to defend your viewpoint. but please, keep posting.

[Benihana]

because this is the internet, and a thread on the official forums.
we all feel strongly against your feelings and will keep presenting our opinions, experiences, and rhetoric to overshadow your "i want it, and want no one else to have it" mentality.
btw. your last paragraph completely invalidates any further attempts to defend your viewpoint. but please, keep posting.

I'm surprised you're still here Taruina.

The logic that just because you post more, you must be right is a highlight to your level of intelligence.

You scream louder so you must be stronger. No, you just sound mad tbh.