HNMs and the future of FFXI

[Alhanelem]

I'll assume you probably never really efficiently claimed HNMs before so you've probably never experienced the thrill of claiming one way back when.

You'd be assuming incorrectly. I've fought every major HNM from before Wings of the Goddess, most of them several times. I've camped more Faf/nid adaman/aspi behemoth/KBs than you could imagine. I know exactly what it's like to pull and claim HNMs. Fighting the NM itself is the fun part. The drama surrounding claiming it is not.

Seriously... you'd have to be on some kind of drugs to enjoy every-30-minutes-for-3-hours spawn windows and multi-day repop times. The only way you can enjoy it is if you're a drama llama that stirs up trouble for your own entertainment.

I dont' want to sit in one place for hours doing absolutely nothing before maybe or maybe not fighting an NM. I just want the damn thing to pop so we can get on with it.

There are plenty of HNMs in the game. If you really like fighting them so much, fight them. But most people who don't bot and don't like being idle for hours on end don't like them. The shift to popped NMs was a good thing for the game. All the thrill of the fight, none of the "thrill" of GM call wars and accusations of botting and people talking shiat.

[Dazusu]

I dont' want to sit in one place for hours doing absolutely nothing before maybe or maybe not fighting an NM. I just want the damn thing to pop so we can get on with it.

And again, you wouldn't have to. Just like you don't have to do Legion, VW, Limbus, Dynamis, Einherjar, Abyssea, Missions, Quests, Salvage now. You pick and choose what you want to do. Some people want to enjoy new HNMs, why do you feel the need to tell those people that they'd need to be intoxicated to enjoy such things? Just because you don't?

The only possible argument against them that makes any real sense is: "I don't want HNM if they carry the new top tier of gear" - and in that case, I would completely agree with you. Being forced to camp 8~9 hours a day for the 'top tier' of gear.. I wouldn't go back to doing that again.

But adding HNM with side-grades, or duplicate drops from other places - why not?

[Alhanelem]

Some people want to enjoy new HNMs, why do you feel the need to tell those people that they'd need to be intoxicated to enjoy such things?

I'm not telling them they need to be, I'm telling them they probably are. There's a difference.

But adding HNM with side-grades, or duplicate drops from other places - why not?

Who would do it with no real incentive? You're not going to find any of the competition you revel in if there isn't a highly desireable drop, because you'd have to search the whole server to find enough people for just one group.

Look at legion - it's got HNMs galore. If you like fighting them, it should be right up your alley, and it only has useless items and a few sidegrades. Based on your post, it would be perfect.

[Dazusu]

I'm not telling them they need to be, I'm telling them they probably are. There's a difference.

Technicality.

because you'd have to search the whole server to find enough people for just one group.

That's where I think you're mistaken. You assume that absolutely no one wants this content - but that's just not true. I know it's not the most popular for all of the systems flaws, but even when HNM were changed - people were still camping them up until that day - and people continue to camp Tiamat.

Look at legion - it's got HNMs galore. If you like fighting them, it should be right up your alley, and it only has useless items and a few sidegrades. Based on your post, it would be perfect.

I am actively participating in Legion.

[Alhanelem]

It's easy to say "Why not?" for any piece of content or any change to the game. The "Why not?" is 'It's not worth the development time." Even simple changes, the development time is a consideration. We get or don't get a lot of things based on how long the devs think it would take to implement / how hard/easy they think it would be. They're lazy and we pay the price. So unless that changes, they need to please the largest number of people possible with each change. Adding new content that 10 people on the server want more of isn't going to happen.

New HNMs, particularly if they have desireable drops, will bring cheaters back to the surface. With the current popular content, nobody notices or cares much if you cheat because it doesn't affect them. With HNMs cheating (you can argue about how common place it was, but you can't argue that it didn't ever happen) does affect other people.

[Benihana]

cosign. new world hnms would be cool. I would prefer them to spawn in a bit like di/sw though.

You could still cheat but it was more focused related when it came to claiming.

Why are you guys arguing with the no-police?

NO DAddy, nooooooooooooo!!!!!

in b4 Taruina MNK chi blast for hnm claim. w

[Dazusu]

'It's not worth the development time."

That's usually a subjective, relative and exaggerated argument based on who you ask and their desires for the game. What's worth it for one person may not be for the other.

To be fair to your argument though, I think in this case you have a point and that's part of the problem. The updates we do get are so few and far between it wouldn't make sense to implement HNM for less than 20% of the game population. However, had we more consistent updates and a bigger development team - I would hope that no one would have an issue with a bigger variance of end-game being implemented, though I fear the bitchery would still persist from the small but vocal parade on the forums.

Here's to the next 6 months consisting of rehashes of Limbus, Einherjar and Salvage.

[Reiterpallasch]

Have you guys craving for the uber challenge thought to try and do Abyssea content without all the killer buffs?


No Atma. No cruore buffs. No intentional trying for procs. No use of temps. No popping chests? Sounds pretty hardcore to me. When you enter Abyssea, you are not forced to get anything other than time. Well, what do you think Habu? Care to give it a try? Care to find 17 other ppl that want to give it a shot?

There's a huge difference between:

• Intentionally gimping yourself to make easy content that anyone can complete harder.

and

• Already hard content that only the best players can complete.

[Alhanelem]

That's usually a subjective, relative and exaggerated argument based on who you ask and their desires for the game.

It's subjective, yes, but the only subjective view that matters is theirs. And you should know how many good ideas they've been ignoring or shooting down on the basis of development cost/time.

Already hard content that only the best players can complete.

If you want "hard content" that's what they added Legion for. It's got the sidegrades and marginal rewards you say you want. So why aren't you doing it?

This stuff doesn't add up. I'm still convinced the only reason anyone wants old fashioned HNMs back is because they either
1) cheat
2) start drama over every fight, either during the spawn windows or by trying to find a way to wipe the fighting group, or
3) they enjoy watching the above drama, preferably with soda and popcorn.

If all you really want is a challenge, there are plenty of current and probably upcoming ways to be challenged. Pulling HNMs is not a challenge- it's random luck, unless you're botting.

Here's to the next 6 months consisting of rehashes of Limbus, Einherjar and Salvage.

Not saying I'm any happier about this. But how would rehashes of the old days of HNM pulling be any better?

Just savor the memories and tell your kids "Bah, you kids have it easy! Back in my day, we had to wait around for 3 hours for bosses to pop. Then we argued about it, called the other group botters, argued for a little while, then tried to make the other guys die."

You assume that absolutely no one wants this content - but that's just not true.

I wouldn't say absolutely no one, but it's hard enough to get people together for more common things in this game. What makes you think you could get enough people interested to bring back the sense of competition I get the impression you want?

[newmonkey]

Return of the hnms yes please come on se give people other than the vocal casual people on here content we want.