[Suggestion] How to reintroduce HNMLS gameplay in FFXI Lv99‏

[Camiie]

I miss drama. It's a fucking MMORPG, a lack of drama is a lack of fun. You can say you hate drama, but we all know people love it.

Eh, I have a lot more fun without being yelled at by my own LS leadership and having to /blist everyone around who's not a member. While some people do probably love drama, I think you're just projecting your own ideas onto them.

Drama isn't just the bad shit, it's like a story, good and bad. You will never see someone nearly as happy to get something today as they would have been years ago, and that's just sad. You'll never get to hear someone crying because they lost a drop or it got stolen, true, but it's in the same vein of, but not on the same level of, the US giving up major rights to protect themselves from the terrorists that want to put an end to their rights.

I'll gladly sacrifice the occasional high to avoid the almost constant lows I felt before. There's nothing wrong with emotional BALANCE!! As far as terrorists and citizen's rights... I don't think this is the place for that discussion.

Teamwork and camaraderie is all but dead on a server-wide level. There's no social punishment for being a total douche, abyssea encourages low manning and stealing, and VW type drop systems remove LS government from events.

I've still seen people called out in Jeuno for scamming or other bad behaviors. My friends and I team up to do things just fine. I don't see a problem with encouraging low-manning, and I don't see how stealing is more promoted now than during the HNM days. My god back then people would pull out every dirty trick they could to get that Nidhogg off us, and we'd do the same to them. If you wiped all you got was laughed at. Nowadays while yes some people are still jerks about stealing, many more are likely to help you than were back in the old days. Just last night a duo wiped on an NM that we were also fighting. We claimed it before it depopped and allied them. They got their items and we got some +2s they didn't need. You think that would have happened in Dragon's Aery? I never saw it happen.

But it's okay, EVERYONE can get EVERYTHING, so it's okay right? That's so stupid. Everyone shouldn't be allowed the same things. If you can't/won't put in the work for a reward, then you shouldn't get the reward. It's like winning at the olympics, but then everyone who competed got a gold medal and a Wheaties cover. It's stupid.

Please. FFXI has never worked that way even during the height of Abyssea. You're grossly exaggerating and you know it. You think it's too easy, and that's fine but no one is being given a damn thing.

Of course tjere will be some retards who will read my post the wrong way, there always are:

Since what you typed below that line is meant only for "retards" I guess I'll just ignore it.

[Dazusu]

I miss drama. It's a fucking MMORPG, a lack of drama is a lack of fun. You can say you hate drama, but we all know people love it. Drama isn't just the bad shit, it's like a story, good and bad.

So true. Competition added a lot to the game.

You will never see someone nearly as happy to get something today as they would have been years ago, and that's just sad.

I don't know you, but I like you already.

You'll never get to hear someone crying because they lost a drop or it got stolen, true, but it's in the same vein of, but not on the same level of, the US giving up major rights to protect themselves from the terrorists that want to put an end to their rights.

Teamwork and camaraderie is all but dead on a server-wide level. There's no social punishment for being a total douche, abyssea encourages low manning and stealing, and VW type drop systems remove LS government from events.

It removes the need for a Linkshell, period. However, there was also a lot of HNM stealing back in the day, so it's certainly not restricted to this era of the game.

But it's okay, EVERYONE can get EVERYTHING, so it's okay right?

Depends who you ask, the casual crusaders seem to think so.

Everyone shouldn't be allowed the same things.

They can if they are willing to earn/work for it.

If you can't/won't put in the work for a reward, then you shouldn't get the reward. It's like winning at the olympics, but then everyone who competed got a gold medal and a Wheaties cover. It's stupid.

Doh, beat me to it.

Let me buy this man a beer.

[Yambo99]

I like Return1 to !



POWER TO THE HARDCORES!

[Karbuncle]

You will never see someone nearly as happy to get something today as they would have been years ago, and that's just sad.

Not that i disagree or agree with the rest of your post, But thats simply called life.

Eventually things you enjoy you may come to no longer enjoy some day down the line. And doing something a second or third time will never be as exciting as doing it the first time.

Read my very first post in this thread, It fits for you as well. Bringing back HNMs and Drama won't bring back what you're looking for. You may think it will, But when you have it, You will come to find it was just a pipe-dream of recapturing what you felt early on in this games life.

I know sometimes i sit down and wish i could go back to the times of being level 50-55 on my THF, Leveling up in Aht-Urghan, but this time, not being terrible. Go back to the time of leveling jobs 1-10 (Which are my favorite levels). But nope...

----

On one last point of Discussion. I know its an MMORPG, but large groups really hurt more than help. I can do low man events and still be on a linkshell with 40 people and get all the joy of Social interaction without being 29th in Line for the item i want. Thats why I enjoy Linkshells. They're for Social interaction!

Plus after reading your post closely, I'm 100% Positive you care nothing about HNMs or Legion, you just want exclusive/rare armor to afk in. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm seriously getting that vibe from you.

Before they would work for long times and put actual effort in to get improvements to gear, and finally getting that gear would flood them with feel-goodness. Now they've been conditioned to get a constant flow of lesser feel-goodness,

Have you even played since Abyssea? Tip: Say hi to Voidwatch. All the "fun" of HNM-Loot system, except everything you want is R/EX, you can't pool your items, and the drop you want is 0.5% and only goes to people who can't use it.

Again, You're wanting the excitement of getting a new item, like you felt back in the HNM Days. That will never happen. You will never recapture that excitement again. Personally i shat bricks when i got my THF AF Gloves, that shit was an achievement back when i got them. I was one of the first on server to own Ranparee Harness, It was awesome.

But I'll never recapture that excitement, Neither will you. I admire your dedication to thinking this will make everyone happier, but it won't. HNMs were a terrible system designed for an out-dated time. There was nothing positive about them. As you nicely pointed out for me, The best thing to come from them was reading the Drama on a Forum. Which while fun, gets old quick.

I know competition drives a lot of people, But they have first Person shooters for that. That, and FFXI may not be for you. Its not a Competitive game. They're moving away from that. If you don't like it, I say this truly, I'm sorry for you. But this game is going away from the HNM Camping times, and into an era the majority of the player-base can enjoy.

I applaud your enthusiasm, but like an update for RDM, its a pipe dream. I mean, i guess asking for it gives you something to do, so keep doing it, But It will likely never happen. But keep fighting the good fight. The second they bring back HNMs you may come to realize you're the only one camping it because 95% of the player base will have quit.

[Return1]

Eh, I have a lot more fun without being yelled at by my own LS leadership and having to /blist everyone around who's not a member. While some people do probably love drama, I think you're just projecting your own ideas onto them.

Then you had a pretty bad linkshell.

I'll gladly sacrifice the occasional high to avoid the almost constant lows I felt before. There's nothing wrong with emotional BALANCE!! As far as terrorists and citizen's rights... I don't think this is the place for that discussion.

If you had constant lows, why even play the game? If the lows were constant you wouldn't have played unless you're a masochist or an old addict. This is just my opinion, but not getting some kind of emotional high or attachment to your group or achievements in an MMO means you or the game was a failure. The sign of the game's success is that exact emotional high you're sacrificing.

I've still seen people called out in Jeuno for scamming or other bad behaviors. My friends and I team up to do things just fine. I don't see a problem with encouraging low-manning, and I don't see how stealing is more promoted now than during the HNM days.

You see those people called out in Jeuno for scamming, but then you join your VW shout and now you're groupped with said scammer because he has an Ukon. Odds are you aren't leaving because he's there. Before if someone ninja-lotted a drop, they'd be booted from their ls, have player warnings, and generally would have no option but the seediest shells on some other server, because nobody wanted to potentially have their E.Body/W.Legs/D.Chap/AA/etc ninja'd from them. They weren't nearly as tolerated or easily forgiven as they are today. No punishment, and a turn towards not needing a social structure/hierarchy to get things done, encourages stealing. There's a benefit to stealing with virtually 0 negatives, so if you're an unconscionable prick, it's to your advantage.

HNM was just a small section of 75 endgame, for a while post-75 Abyssea WAS endgame, hell it was most of non-endgame too. There's a bit of a difference in the scale in which they encouraged stealing/being a dick.

Please. FFXI has never worked that way even during the height of Abyssea. You're grossly exaggerating and you know it. You think it's too easy, and that's fine but no one is being given a damn thing.

Bullshit! They added an instant win button in Abyssea, and then made said instant win button piss easy to obtain. You could build an empyrean by being AFK 98% of the time. Seriously:

1) Go to a cleave.
2) Sit there while you aquire cruor/exp.
3) Take extra KIs.
4) Use cruor to buy Brew.
5) Kill NMs.
6) Repeat.

Hell you can join a FC, leech, and NPC cruor to buy anything you want in relatively short order, considering you were AFK the whole time.

Eventually things you enjoy you may come to no longer enjoy some day down the line. And doing something a second or third time will never be as exciting as doing it the first time.
Read my very first post in this thread, It fits for you as well. Bringing back HNMs and Drama won't bring back what you're looking for. You may think it will, But when you have it, You will come to find it was just a pipe-dream of recapturing what you felt early on in this games life.

There's quite a difference. The part I miss is the teamwork and strategy that went into events. My desire for those things never faded, they were removed from the game.

Oh boy, proc systems! Just a way to force a group to drag along extra people, on jobs no one cares about, and add mindless ways to cripple mobs.

Oh boy, massive Temps! Lets remove all difficulty from abyssea and add an instant win button, or on the other end of the spectrum, cover up flaws in monster difficulty by spamming fanatics and clerics to survive fights with constant, unbalanced aoe hate reset, charm, death moves.

Oh boy Cruor Buffs/Atma(cites)! Lets marginalize the importance of most gear, the obtaining of and knowledge of how and when to equip being one of the only gameplay factors players control, by adding superpowers!

Plus after reading your post closely, I'm 100% Positive you care nothing about HNMs or Legion, you just want exclusive/rare armor to afk in. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm seriously getting that vibe from you.

You're wrong. AFKing in badass gear is nice and all, but the best parts of the game are doing my job as best as I can, gear enabling that, and that feeling you get when you lead a group with a plan and you see the plan come together in the fight.

I hated HNMs and still do. Imho, Limbus/Einherjar/Assault/Nyzul is how all FFXI endgame should be modeled. They all offered great rewards, had a tiered progression, rewarded you based on performance, and everyone benefited. They could be low-manned, but required a plan and teamwork. SE seriously needs to look at those events and learn when coming out with new content.

Have you even played since Abyssea? Tip: Say hi to Voidwatch. All the "fun" of HNM-Loot system, except everything you want is R/EX, you can't pool your items, and the drop you want is 0.5% and only goes to people who can't use it.

I know competition drives a lot of people, But they have first Person shooters for that. That, and FFXI may not be for you. Its not a Competitive game. They're moving away from that. If you don't like it, I say this truly, I'm sorry for you. But this game is going away from the HNM Camping times, and into an era the majority of the player-base can enjoy.

You must not have read any of my posts that I've ever made. I care nothing for HNM, and I specifically called out VW's loot system as garbage as it removes ls government. All of the content I've mentioned as "good" involves the avoidance of direct competition, promotes players choosing when to start an event, and a benefit for everyone based on performance.

HNMs can die in a fire fueled by unwanted children in an orphanage. I want the 8-18+ Endgame LSes back though, and I want more content based off the same principles of Limbus/Einherjar/Assault/Nyzul to support said shells.

[Camiie]

Then you had a pretty bad linkshell.

From talking to the people I used to have to /blist but don't anymore (very nice people by the way), they put up with a lot of the same crap. Bad? In some ways maybe. Uncommon? Not really. Slim chances at claiming, low droprates, and people trying to validate themselves by their success in a video game tended to add stress and vitriol to situations where it never should have existed. Type A personalities, performance anxiety, and internet anonymity doesn't tend to make for the friendliest environments.

If you had constant lows, why even play the game? If the lows were constant you wouldn't have played unless you're a masochist or an old addict. This is just my opinion, but not getting some kind of emotional high or attachment to your group or achievements in an MMO means you or the game was a failure. The sign of the game's success is that exact emotional high you're sacrificing.

I had attachment to plenty of people. I still do. Outside of HNM there was fun to be had. HNM itself was more a means to an end. Back then you either did HNM or you stopped progressing. I wanted to play with my friends and progress so I did it. Was it always a nightmare? No. Was it as fun and joyous as a game should be? No. Am I a failure? I'm not someone with that high an opinion of myself, but I know I'm not a failure. I'm far from perfect, and I'll never measure among the elite. Is the game a failure? Partially yes. It's Final Fantasy, it should be as big as any MMO ever.

You see those people called out in Jeuno for scamming, but then you join your VW shout and now you're groupped with said scammer because he has an Ukon. Odds are you aren't leaving because he's there. Before if someone ninja-lotted a drop, they'd be booted from their ls, have player warnings, and generally would have no option but the seediest shells on some other server, because nobody wanted to potentially have their E.Body/W.Legs/D.Chap/AA/etc ninja'd from them. They weren't nearly as tolerated or easily forgiven as they are today. No punishment, and a turn towards not needing a social structure/hierarchy to get things done, encourages stealing. There's a benefit to stealing with virtually 0 negatives, so if you're an unconscionable prick, it's to your advantage.

How do you steal drops in VW? I didn't think there was anyone who knew less about it than I do.

HNM was just a small section of 75 endgame, for a while post-75 Abyssea WAS endgame, hell it was most of non-endgame too. There's a bit of a difference in the scale in which they encouraged stealing/being a dick.

That's the problem with SE. Whatever is new is the only game in town. They can't or won't support progression for different "levels" of players all at the same time.

Bullshit! They added an instant win button in Abyssea, and then made said instant win button piss easy to obtain. You could build an empyrean by being AFK 98% of the time.

Trust me, procing and brewing doesn't guarantee you'll get what you want when you want it which is what you're suggesting Abyssea is. Oh the mob will die for sure if you brew it, but the R.N.G. can still screw you over. Maybe you always get what you're after every time. You're definitely the exception.

[Return1]

How do you steal drops in VW? I didn't think there was anyone who knew less about it than I do.

I never said they'd steal VW drops. VW does play a role in killing social hierarchy and punishment for those that do steal though.

That's the problem with SE. Whatever is new is the only game in town. They can't or won't support progression for different "levels" of players all at the same time.

What? At 75 cap we had a ton of different "games in town", and they all supported different "levels" of players. Quests, Missions, BCNM, KSNM, ENM, ISNM, Assaults, Nyzul, Sky, Sea, HNM, Dynamis, Limbus, Garrison, Einherjar, Salvage, Campaign, Campaign Ops, SCNMs, etc. Every one of those events had something to offer as well.

Trust me, procing and brewing doesn't guarantee you'll get what you want when you want it which is what you're suggesting Abyssea is. Oh the mob will die for sure if you brew it, but the R.N.G. can still screw you over. Maybe you always get what you're after every time. You're definitely the exception.

The point was it was an instant win button, removing any work you needed to do. For Emp items, they were guaranteed to at least drop at least one. On top of that, you could just leech cruor/gil and just buy any Empyrean Armor/Weapon drop you wanted.

[Hercule]

I'm 300% agree with everything Return1 said

[Karbuncle]

Well its good you guys got hardcore Nostalgia goggles, I wish i could look back and pretend FFXI used to take skill or planning. All i remember is a trip to wiki, and after 1 run, You had it down to the letter.

FFXI Past and present are only different in one way. Present, the HNMs can be spawned, Past, they could not. Same Difficulty, Same everything. Its easy. Voidwatch is basically HNMs without the respawn timers. the Loot system sucks, But thats what we now have Legion for as well. HNMs with their old loot system intact.

Edit: It also seems that the final Voidwatch battlefield can only be entered once every 24 hours. You can just arrive 3 hours early and stare at the crystal, afk with bots on, and pretend your HNM Camping before you re-enter. Simulate the entire experience.

Yah, I'm bringing the sarcasm on real strong today, not sure why. You guys seem nice enough

[Glamdring]

much as I would like all the old HNMLS types to pack up and take it elsewhere (they sort-of have with Voidwatch already) I don't really care for the reintroduction of this kind of content. If they DO decide we need HNMs make them force-pop, and make getting the pops difficult. One of the worst elements of the old HNM crap was having to be ready for battle at 4:00 am because that's when pop window opened. I'm an insomniac, so once I've gotten to sleep I want to stay that way, plus I have to get up to get ready for work at 6:00 am. Force-pop I can plan for. And let's face it, the HNM should not go to "he who has the better alarm clock"