More nerfs for War & Ukkos.

[Insaniac]

How did that DRK do a 5K WS? What kind of buffs did he have on himself and what debuffs were on the mob? If he is getting 5k everytime he hits 100tp solo, there might be a problem. But if this was a combination of Dia3 on the mob, beserk, last resort, souleater and whatever else can be stacked, that is a different story.

And what was the damage on the Ukyo's fury that followed so we have a comparison against the same mob?

It's really irrelevant. WARs need pre nerf blood rage and all of that stuff you mentioned for 5K+ damage. DRKs would need Souleater and the same buffs/debuffs. The Ukko's was filtered but this is pre nerf anyway. If you want a full run down of that DRKs WSs you would have to ask him yourself. He claims 3-5k on all of his WSs which is along the lines of a current above average ukon user.

I don't give a fuck. I am not Siiri and I am not trying to make her argument. Nothing in any of my posts says shit about 5k damage.

The difficulty in obtaining gear has not nor will it ever be key to the performance of the gear. Period. If you are trying to make that argument then you should be arguing that Mythics should outdamage Relics should outdamage Empyreans. It doesn't work that way.

It doesn't matter what your justification for the nerf is. You are still missing the point completely which is really amazing. SEs "balance" justification is out the window as soon as other jobs start doing regular 3-5k WSs. That was the main point I was trying to make. You started arguing about something entirely different. I never said that because Ukon is quested it deserves to be stronger. I just said that if it's ok for a luck drop to do 5k then it would stand to reason that it should be ok for an Ultimate weapon to do 5k.

Once again. You need to just let the quested vs. luck weapon part of it go. It's an entirely different discussion and I only brought it up because it only makes it even more absurd.

[FrankReynolds]

The difficulty in obtaining gear has not nor will it ever be key to the performance of the gear.

No one made that argument.

If you are trying to make that argument then you should be arguing that Mythics should outdamage Relics should outdamage Empyreans. It doesn't work that way.

Most people agree that mythic weapons are harder than they should be. Moot point.

[Scribble]

I never said that because Ukon is quested it deserves to be stronger.

It was definitely implied...(take note Frank)

Those WSs also came from a weapon he just lucked into. Not a weapon he put days/months of deliberate work into.

WAR can't achieve the same thing with berserk, blood rage ect. that DRK can with souleater, last resort ect.? The only 'luck' part of the equation is the WS buff from the weapon. It isn't consistent enough to put DRK ahead of WAR.

Most people agree that mythic weapons are harder than they should be. Moot point.

Right, but that isn't actually the point. Do most people agree that because it's much harder or expensive to come by that it should surpass all other weapons? That's what Insaniac implied.

BRB making a Ragnarok

[FrankReynolds]

It was definitely implied...(take note Frank)

It was aside from the actual point that was being made, and your continuous focus on it implies that you know you are wrong and are attempting to make a straw man argument in hopes that the original point will be lost on someone.

WAR can't achieve the same thing with berserk, blood rage ect. that DRK can with souleater, last resort ect.? The only 'luck' part of the equation is the WS buff from the weapon. It isn't consistent enough to put DRK ahead of WAR.

It doesn't have to put it ahead of war. It just has to put it near War. War is broken remember? No job should be that powerful (your argument).

Right, but that isn't actually the point. Do most people agree that because it's much harder or expensive to come by that it should surpass all other weapons? That's what Insaniac implied.

BRB making a Ragnarok

No, you implied that Regardless of how hard a weapon is to achieve, that it should never be as powerful as Ukkon. He simply pointed out that if no weapon should ever be that powerful, then dropping them for free and not nerfing them as well is pretty friggin stupid. The problem here is that you think free weapons that are on par with Ukkon are ok, but Ukkon is OMFGWTF broken.

[Insaniac]

It was not implied and even if it was it doesn't matter. It's not relevant. For the record I do believe that a quested weapon should be more powerful than a "hey look what's in this box" weapon but there's already 1000 threads about buffing relics and mythics and the 3 crappy emp WSs. For the last time.. the only reason I brought it up is to further illustrate the lack of balance which it does in the context. There's no reason for you to try and counter with your silliness. The point is that while the uncommon 5k WS and 3k average WS from an Ukon was being nerfed for "balance" in the next cubicle over they were coding a weapon for DRK that can do the same thing. Please understand what I'm saying and move on.

[Scribble]

It was aside from the actual point that was being made, and your continuous focus on it implies that you know you are wrong and are attempting to make a straw man argument in hopes that the original point will be lost on someone.

Not really. If it was aside the actual point then again, why did he even mention it.

It doesn't have to put it ahead of war. It just has to put it near War. War is broken remember? No job should be that powerful (your argument).

WAR isn't broken, Ukko's is. Specifically, the critical rate as TP increases. I don't have a problem with warrior being first on the parse, but apparently WARs have a problem with anyone else being close. I don't argue that no one should be as powerful as WAR, I argue that WAR overpowers the content. You were close :P

The problem here is that you think free weapons that are on par with Ukkon are ok, but Ukkon is OMFGWTF broken.

lolfreeweapons

Borealis is not 'on par' with Ukon. I should also point out that a weapon that is tagged 'Occasionally deals severe weapon skill damage' should do just that. IIRC Ragnarok is better than Borealis, but it still isn't keeping up. I'd guess that the OAT or even Mercurial Sword would do pretty well, but they aren't beating Ukon. Still no reason to shed tears.

BRB meriting Resolution

[Siiri]

It was not implied and even if it was it doesn't matter. It's not relevant. For the record I do believe that a quested weapon should be more powerful than a "hey look what's in this box" weapon but there's already 1000 threads about buffing relics and mythics and the 3 crappy emp WSs. For the last time.. the only reason I brought it up is to further illustrate the lack of balance which it does in the context. There's no reason for you to try and counter with your silliness. The point is that while the uncommon 5k WS and 3k average WS from an Ukon was being nerfed for "balance" in the next cubicle over they were coding a weapon for DRK that can do the same thing. Please understand what I'm saying and move on.

The thing is I, and probably others, do not believe your statements about resolution. Why? Because of math. Resolution has a ftp of .75, and an attack penalty. You have no real data behind your assertion except 1 screenshot and a statement by someone who says he does 5k. Asking someone how much their weaponskill does is kind of like asking an old fisherman how big the fish he caught was. No one cares what someone "says" he does. THere are parses all over the places and if after the nerf Resolution, or much more likely Shoha, with a high ftp and an attack bonus of 40%, are doing crazy damage I guess they will be adjusted too. If you say resolution does its damage because of the "occasionally does severe damage" aspect of that weapon, I am sure that "occasionally" is much less than Ukko's post nerf crit rate. Again, Shoha with a TP bonus GK is going to math better than Resolution.

It was already proven people exaggerate. I asked what other ws has a crit rate like Ukko's and Brolic said thf. I just looked up evisceration and its crit according to BG is 10% at 100 and 40% at 300, so please show me where the thf crazy crit ws is.

[Insaniac]

Brolics THF comment was a joke. Sneak attack and all. Harhar

I would love more info on Borealis procs myself. I never came in here saying Borealis DRK outparses all Ukon WARs. They are not even my statements. I never acted like I had hard evidence of anything so I dunno what you are trying to discredit. All I have is a SS of a 5.3k Resolution followed by a 3.3k resolution and someone stating that his damage was in that range the entire fight. I never claimed anything more than that. One thing I will tell you for sure though is that an Ukon crit doesn't just automatically do 5k. If you think 40% of the time Ukko's does 5k+ damage you are out of your mind. The stars have to align for the average Ukon WAR to break 5k on top tier VW mobs. Both sides of any argument tend to exaggerate.

Once again the point was, "If WAR isn't allowed to do it then no one should be able to do it." Clearly that DRK did it and he did it with a weapon SE was creating while they were nerfing Ukko's.

[Scribble]

I never came in here saying Borealis DRK outparses all Ukon WARs. They are not even my statements. I never acted like I had hard evidence of anything so I dunno what you are trying to discredit.

You did act like you had evidence because you posted the ss, but there is other damage in a parse outside just WS damage. Borealis DoT is not keeping up with Ukon and it doesn't have aftermath so I'm not even sure why you'd entertain that notion unless you're huffing something strong.

They should change the description on that weapon to 'Occasionally enhances epeen screenshots' because it isn't consistent and it isn't beating other options for DRK.

BRB still not beating Ukon with my Ragnarok

[Brolic]

You did act like you had evidence because you posted the ss, but there is other damage in a parse outside just WS damage. Borealis DoT is not keeping up with Ukon and it doesn't have aftermath so I'm not even sure why you'd entertain that notion unless you're huffing something strong.

They should change the description on that weapon to 'Occasionally enhances epeen screenshots' because it isn't consistent and it isn't beating other options for DRK.

BRB still not beating Ukon with my Ragnarok

dot? what's that, when are you not popping wings?