On Artifact Armor.

[Greatguardian]

Lol, not this again. When you write a thesis, you're also responsible for defending your thesis. You can't just say, "Well, this isn't a real debate until you go and write your own thesis". I have no interest in proposing, I don't know, flying chocobos?

There are a million things that the Devs could do. One thing I absolutely do not want them to do is augment AF1. That's all that's necessary for participation in this discussion.

[MakkotoParinne]

I did defend my thesis, though... I gave reasoning to why they should be upgraded and what good will come of it, while you just abhorred the idea of anything Limbus related.

All I'm saying that you're putting my ideas down while refusing to post something better, and that's just the truth.

"I'm sick of Limbus" isn't an excuse, in my opinion. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have anything productive to say/do, then why are you still posting here after you've said your piece?

Note: Flying chocobos! <3

[Greatguardian]

Limbus was only one example. So what if I'm not posting something "better"? That has no bearing on whether or not I think AF1 should be augmented. It's a yes/no topic.

It's old gear, from level 50, that we obtained 6 years ago. There is nothing wrong with gear being outdated, events being outdated, or hell even zones being outdated. Out with the old, in with the new. If you enjoy the old, nothing is stopping you from enjoying it now.

I respond because my posts are being directly responded to. You may call it unproductive, or even counterproductive, but if what I desire is for AF1 to stay AF1, then I feel like I'm being perfectly productive. It's very obvious that I'm not here to help or encourage you or your idea. I stand in direct opposition to it. I do not feel that your idea would make the game better - I feel that it would make it worse, by encouraging this horrific rehashing trend.

The crux of your logic was "If you're upgrading relic, why not artifact too?". As far as I'm concerned, neither should have been bothered with. Since they already upgraded Relic, they may as well not scrap it as they will never get that development time back, but there's no need for them to waste even more time upgrading gear from half a decade ago.

[MakkotoParinne]

That's not what I mean. I'm not saying you can't say no; as a matter of fact, I respect your opinion. Your reasoning behind it, however, is biased.

Why don't we just agree to disagree? This isn't getting anywhere.

[Greatguardian]

That's the idea.

Bias, however, is a fact of life. It's impossible for anyone to be unbiased. You have your bias, I have my bias. Honestly, I don't feel that my bias is any more prominent than yours either. You want something, for some reason that appeals to your personal interests. I don't want that something, because it stands in opposition to my interests. It's all the same.

[MakkotoParinne]

Let's leave it at that then. :3

Maybe a member of the dev team will post again in here to get a yes/no clarification.

[Seriha]

Assuming whatever possible upgrade system comes about MUST regurgitate old content is flawed. Rather, SE giving us options is something we should be striving for. While perhaps a bit late for warning, Makkoto, GG is the type who would gleefully gut a job of its theme for practicality. Once you get past the concepts of abilities and the like, equipment like Artifacts and Relics is a subset of those themes in both function (ideally...) and aesthetics. So, it's not really surprising he's raging since there are people who still care about these types of things and dares to disagree with his esteemed opinion foundationed in longevity.

Personally, I can sympathize with event burnout. That's where having multiple paths to a similar destination shines. Or things like point systems where it's not so much about a random number generator as it is modest effort. When I see people clamoring for AF1+2, I get the vibe they're not just fishing for +1-2 of existing stats and calling it a day. That'd be a waste of player and dev time. No, I see people wanting things brought up to new standards, maybe even setting bars relative to independent gear options. Yes, getting these would suck if it meant grinding Dynamis/Limbus/Salvage/etc. 500+ times, but there's nothing stopping SE from putting the upgrade methods in honest to goodness new content other than SE themselves. Sadly, with a skeleton crew and limited budget, that's a harsher reality than it should be.

[Greatguardian]

Gee Willikers, it's almost as if you +1'd the things I've been championing in other threads in this subforum. So where's the disconnect? Ah, right. Lore.

Believe it or not, I love lore. I enjoyed my Artifact quests. I enjoyed the characters, and the stories plenty. Maybe I don't want to see such a rich lore watered down into magian trials. Maybe some sleeping dogs should be left to lay. Maybe I just want new stories, new lore, new characters to interact with seeing how the level 50 Orcs really aren't that scary any more when our individual player characters are a higher level than the Beastman Kings.

Maybe, just maybe, I enjoyed my Artifact quests but simultaneously recognize that they are over, and the gear is old. What does the armor really mean to the job, hm? Most of it is typical "This was rusted, you found it, I'll repair it for you" stuff. It was never meant to be the penultimate culmination of a job's individuality or power - merely a stepping stone. We outgrew footsie pajamas, too.

[Seriha]

Yet with the ease of leveling these days, through antiquation you're basically advocating the abandonment of old content and lore (that not everyone may have experienced) solely because you don't want to step into an old area again and are talking like that is it how it has to be. Some of the AF quests are left open-ended or relatively unexplained, like what happened with Rainemard and the San d'Orian church for RDM. On the other end, we've been hinted at the existence of "elite" representations of our job types like those deployed to Xarcabard during the Crystal War. What's to stop plot from ushering players as the next generation of these ideals for the classes with equipment to match? Things can be more than a moogle zapping our stuff, but the prospect of getting SE to write up 20 storylines and 100 quests dispersed among them is probably a time long behind us. Still, I'd rather have that than, "You find Best In Slot(tm) on the New HNM Only Few Get to Fight." Quested gear with a meaningful story has been exceptionally rare in FFXI. It's not too late to change that. Of course, if we're gonna go that far, I wouldn't be surprised to see having AF+2, Relic+2, and Emp+2 as a requirement for the next best thing.

[Greatguardian]

If people are ignoring story and lore because they have the option to ignore story and lore, making armor obtained via story and lore isn't going to make them suddenly care more about story and lore.

If they want to expand on story and lore, that's fine. Anyone who gives a damn about story and lore can and should be going and doing the Artifact quests anyways, especially since many pieces are still useful at 95 anyways. But adding magian quests to old armor doesn't equate to an expansion of lore. Likewise, expanding on the lore doesn't necessarily equate to making the gear wtfbbqawesome or equivalent to AF3.

There is a massive difference between saying "Hey SE, please give us some more story and lore. I miss that." and "Hey SE, please make my level 50 armor super awesome at level 99 via trials of the magians". One of these I support, the other I do not.