Disturbing a cleave PT on purpose to hurt a group, [again or not again ToS?]

[Ilax]

Hi,

First i would like to thank everyone that take time to read this thread. Lately more then usual, i have trouble with a specific player who is having fun to track me down on Fenrir server to see when and where i cleave, and then come in the zone and have fun to "AGA/AJA" all monster on last 5~10% HP, or even better, he follow me, then wait i gather together enough monster (~20 monster) then breakga and use "conflux" to make them despawn.

Anyway, i post this thread because i get confuse about GM position in all this. Part of the "Rules and Policies" said, kill a unclaim mob is a fair game.

Q: I was gathering multiple monsters together when another player came and started to defeat the individual monsters that I’d gathered. Is this violation?

A: A player or group of players is permitted to attack any unclaimed monster regardless of the circumstances. Therefore, if you have encountered someone that is killing monsters from a group that you’d gathered, this will be considered a legitimate tactic. However, please contact a Game Master via the /helpdesk command in-game if you have experienced verbal abuse or other violations as defined in our policies.

But then, we also have on the Rules and Policies:

Q: How to judge if an action is harassment.

A: GM defines insults, racism, obscenities, etc. as harassment. Other types of behavior that result in the distress of other players are also categorized as harassment.

Please understand that the things that you say or do might not be considered harmful from your perspective, but they may indeed affect other players' game play.

I would also like to point out this Article:

Article 4.4 Revocations of User Rights.

(f) Harassing, tormenting, intimidating, pestering, obstructing, taking advantage of, or any way hurting or damaging other Users or any third parties or their properties utilizing the PlayOnline Service

Harassment is not taken lightly under the User Agreements and Policies, and if confirmed, will be dealt with swiftly and harshly.
Insuring the well being of those being harassed is just as, if not more important to us than punishing the offending party. If the offending party does not desist from harassing the victim, then further levels of punishment can be introduced to protect the victim from any more unpleasantries.
If you are harassed in any manner, we ask if possible, for you to register the offending players' name in the Black List. If this does not stop the harassment, please make a GM call as soon as possible.

So as i can understand from KB Article: 55261, nothing void your right to take a monster for a good reason... NM turn unclaim, then too bad for the group, they should have secure the claim better, you need a pop item but all monster are taken, then get monster from the gather together group is also justified.

But if you camp a cleave group for several minute to kill the last 5% HP should be totally breaking KB Article: 12559 And further more if you brag in /tell or /say about it.

Anyway, that night, the guy stayed from 2pm to 4pm, then exited to do dynamis and told us: see u in the future, and as promise he came back @ 7h34 and said:

-nice to see your bright face again.
-it seems you and ur friends dont learn ^^, guess history will repeat itsself
-not gonna be nice, ^^
-thats it
-last straw
-no more nice galka
-Tried to warn you

So ya, the warning was, when he is in the zone we need leave the zone immediately, his pseudo reason is variant, lately apparently he does this because it's his duty to stop cleave noobs from infesting the game.

Over 24 GM call, with 12 different player that are tired of this, and nothing been done, we even talked with a senior GM, but it seem GM are too confuse to take the correct action again this issue.

I wish GM review the RULE and apply sanction when this problem occur, of course i am 100% sure i am not the first one placing a call about this issue.

In answer to KB55261 -> Harassment should not be tolerated regardless of the circumstances.

No point to hurt each other with lame action/reason, it might sound like i level noob for this guy, but keep in mind, many player would probably just refuse to play the game if this possibility wasn't available.

**Sorry for my English syntax/grammar, i try hard and as french canadian this is not 100% easy.

[Greatguardian]

This is basically the same situation as Summoner Burns. If you can demonstrate that the person in question is doing it with the intent to harass or impede you, it is an offense.

Killing monsters for the sake of killing monsters is not an offense. Anyone can walk up and kill whatever monster they feel like, regardless of whether or not it has been gathered by another player. But, if someone is intentionally trying to grief another player by taking their mobs, then it is harassment. The difference is not in the action, but in the intent, and you have to be able to show the GM the intent via chat logs if you want them to do anything about it.

Even then, it's up to the individual GM. Your mileage may vary.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm curious about this too, I have had people show up while I am Charged Whisker burning, and Aeolian Edge the mobs I have slept (which wakes them up and basically MPKs me). A Response from the powers that be would be good.

[Ilax]

Thanks for reply Greatguardian,

Well the best i got is: "Thank you. Before I start my investigation, are there any other concerns I may assist you with at this time?"

Sadly, at this time there is no action taken again this guy, he even brag about it and ready to do the same, and is the whole reason of this post, even with major evidence of intent to harass, nothing been done to issue the problem, due to surgery lately i was not able to cleave, but i am starting back tomorrow, i just hope that not going to end into a nightmare again.

Thanks FrankReynolds for your feedback, i hope to see more story about this, because i have big doubt about GM action, and i think it worth to be reviewed/issued.

[uptempo]

Way i see it if your pulling all the mobs and i need something from those mobs im going to cleave your stack regardless yellow is yellow and you have no claim to them all apart from your red mob if you have them slept for charged whisker im sorry but you run the risk of dying and i wouldn't give a stuff if you did.

In your case Ilax that guy seems to be a huge dick head following you around.

[Leonlionheart]

Way i see it if your pulling all the mobs and i need something from those mobs im going to cleave your stack regardless yellow is yellow and you have no claim to them all apart from your red mob if you have them slept for charged whisker im sorry but you run the risk of dying and i wouldn't give a stuff if you did.

In your case Ilax that guy seems to be a huge dick head following you around.

I agree with you for the most part, but the way you go about it is probably wrong.

If you need something from the mob in question, ask first. Don't be a total douchebag. Often times when i do this the PI for the local NM is in my bazaar for 1g, will trade for free if you're gonna nit pick.

[Atomic_Skull]

If I'm farming and some jackwipe shows up and starts gathering every single mob in the area you damn well better believe I'm going to fight for my right to farm and take them off their train.

[Arcon]

That guy sounds like a major dick. Mind sharing his name?

Not saying killing other people's mobs is bad per se, it always depends on the situation. I remember cleaving Coeurls in Tahrongi with some douchebag showing up and started soloing the mobs, always taking out 3 or 4 at a time. I politely told him there's a whole unused area of exactly the same mob just a bit to the west, but he didn't listen and kept going even after multiple tells and pleas. And in that situation, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. As I said, it's not black or white, there are gray areas and different circumstances to consider. However, in OP's case it sounds like an absolute dick move. Such players are worse than RMT imo and should be permabanned.

[Manicora]

sadly with FC going on, SE reduced the total number of mobs you can get exp off of at once time. anything over 8 at a time you wont get exp. CW burn all kinds. Havent tried to get chain 9+ outside aby but inside limit is 8. as far as this main topic, i have only 1 question: Why has he singled you out? I use to be a jerk and Dia a SM burn as soon as I saw 1st 2hr go off. was np to kill a pt like that @75 and could easily hold hate and tank them all as rdm with spikes up But I talked to a GM 1st, they said "As long as the monster is Yellow its fair game" the GM didnt care if I was doing it to be a jerk or just farming so long as I didnt brag about it.once that happend I would have been Jail state

[Alhanelem]

If your intentional actions are putting someone else in danger (e.g. waking slept mobs) then it might be rising to the level of a code of conduct violation.