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  1. #11
    Player Economizer's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,397
    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by MDenham View Post
    WHM and RDM, right?
    DW1 for all jobs would be so hot. At the least, you'd be able to get slightly better melee ability at all times, although you'd still want to sub Dancer or Ninja in many cases. Maybe a ranged attack item that grants the ability (unlike stuff like the Suppa earring) would be more realistic for making this happen? While even this does open up options, there are still consequences to even an item version (same with an item version of Wide Scan 1).

    On more realistic DW adjustments, Thief should get DW2 at some point at the least, and we know BLU is going to get a higher tier via spells. Any one handed job would be thrilled to get the ability though. If I had to list the jobs most likely to get a tier of this, I'd probably have Beastmaster, Corsair and Ranger as the likely suspects. A mage can dream though, right?
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player Atomic_Skull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,248
    Character
    Bjorne
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 5
    Quote Originally Posted by Economizer View Post
    DW1 for all jobs would be so hot. At the least, you'd be able to get slightly better melee ability at all times
    All the jobs that use 1H weapons either already have it or have no use for it.

    THF DNC NIN BLU: have it already. Of these THF and BLU will always be using /NIN for shadows and DW3 anyway.

    PLD: Should never take off shield.

    RDM: Should always be using staves.

    WHM: See RDM.

    WAR: Should always use great axe.
    (0)
    Last edited by Atomic_Skull; 10-23-2011 at 04:21 PM.

  3. #13
    Player Soranika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    452
    It honestly doesn't make sense to have dual wield on every job though. Maybe on WAR, but it seems like your reasons for for wanting DW on every job (which to be honest, you want it specifically on BST) is near the same as me hoping DNC would get their own native blink/shadows job ability because I really dislike subbing NIN.
    (0)
    Main Job: SMN95 <Hvergelmir 85 obtained 9/10/11>
    Side Jobs: WHM95 DNC95
    Gimp Jobs: SCH95 NIN95
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimikryo View Post
    If waiting 15 minutes is such an issue to you, I hope you never get stuck in public transport or in an elevator. You probably will go insane.

  4. #14
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,273
    The reason BST wants Dual Wield has nothing at all to do with faster TP building. In fact, It likely has exactly the opposite reason... I'll explain.

    Right now, to Dual Wield 2 -PDT pet axes, BST has to sub NIN or DNC. Subbing NIN means you can keep shadows up vs a mob that doesn't AOE, however if the mob can AOE you, DNC can be better to cure yourself.

    Unfortunately, /DNC requires TP which isn't very easy to come by, and even harder in situations like closed battlefields where there's only the NM to build TP on. In this situation, /SCH /WHM or /RDM are much better options as you can replenish mp simply by /heal, not to mention far more refresh gear available, and sublimation/refresh from rdm or sch. But right now, you can only wield 1 x -pdt axe if you /sch /whm or /rdm

    If this wasn't why the OP wanted DW for BST, I'm stumped.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Economizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,397
    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull View Post
    RDM: Should always be using staves.

    WHM: See RDM.
    I don't even have to break into melee situations to bust this, but those alone would break this misinformed statement.

    Clubs and Swords inherently have better stats then shields. Tefnut Wand and a Templar Mace, or a Galenus for more cure potency then a Staff currently can give. Enfeebles have potency based on stats, so in certain cases having +10 MND will win out over more magic accuracy. Furthermore, for White Mage currently, the best cure set for maximum MP cured per cure currently uses a Tefnut Wand a shield. Getting Dual Wield would benefit this.

    While one could argue that it wouldn't make sense from a flavor or balance standpoint (and perhaps it doesn't, I'm not saying it would make sense), arguing that it wouldn't be useful is just plain wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babekeke View Post
    The reason BST wants Dual Wield has nothing at all to do with faster TP building. In fact, It likely has exactly the opposite reason... I'll explain.
    Aside from the obvious BST needs that you clearly pointed out, I'd say that being able to offhand a multihitter for TP will always win out over not being able to, even with Dual Wield 1.

    While people serious about boosting melee damage will still sub Dancer or Ninja, it would work well in the situations you listed to be able to have melee as an option while you are focusing on something else.

    Or for example, if you are a Red Mage, you could sub Dark Knight for more Sword weapon skills while still getting Dual Wield, or Warrior for more Sword weapon skills and double attack (which is very potent when used with even the lowest tier of DW).
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    *Than a buyable staff can give on Cure Potency

    Please see Surya's Staff with Cure Potency augment.

    Only Slow Para Blind and Addle(?) are directly affected by INT/MND from a potency standpoint for enfeebles (I have seen no evidence for Break and it appears to function similar to Bind as far as INT/Macc affects it), for the others they only give Magic Accuracy depending on dINT/dMND.

    The problem with your last statement is that it isn't. Last time I saw math on it for Blu who has similar but better gear for meleeing than Rdm, Dual Wield III was better than Dual Wield II+Berserk (of course, DA was unaccounted for since you can set it regardless of sub), Unless you were benefiting from both Zerk and Aggressor, otherwise it was at best equal. Without at minimum dual wield 2 I don't see Dual wield I being very useful on Rdm and barely useful on Whm, and only for Tefnut/Templar.
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player Camiie's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    1,495
    Character
    Camiie
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Whether it's ideal or not, WAR, as the master of weapons, should have always had dual wield available natively. It just makes sense to me.

    To me, it makes sense for BST to have access to it. I always envisioned the BST as not only fighting alongside a beast, but fighting kind of like one. I always kind of wondered why they didn't use claws when I first started. Dual wielding could come off as a "wilder" fighting style than an axe/shield and thus be fitting for a BST.

    As for RDM and WHM, while it wouldn't bother me, it doesn't make as much sense really. RDMs are fencers (and should have Fencer trait, by the way) which screams "single sword only." WHM feels more natural with a club/shield. I just don't really envision a cleric type class dual wielding.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Soranika's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    452
    If I remember correctly, RDM use to be very deadly using a man hand sword, off hand dagger.... or was it the other way around? The current way RDM goes against what the job was envisioned to be. It's unfair to limit them to staves only.

    As for WHM... Tefnut Want + augmented Genbu shield argument to not using a staff asside, does not need duel wield trait. Melee WHM are a novelty, but regular WHM can still survive just about anything through self curing. Curing speed, one of the most important things to me personally, makes subbing /RDM or /SCH much more preferable to subbing /NIN or /DNC.

    I can understand where having a natural dual wield to every job is attractive, but it seems like a trait that would be out of place with much needed re-balance when you start to consider using another subjob. Nevermind the fact that BST are already one of the still one of the most self sufficient, solo jobs with even the most basic of gear.
    (0)
    Main Job: SMN95 <Hvergelmir 85 obtained 9/10/11>
    Side Jobs: WHM95 DNC95
    Gimp Jobs: SCH95 NIN95
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimikryo View Post
    If waiting 15 minutes is such an issue to you, I hope you never get stuck in public transport or in an elevator. You probably will go insane.

  9. #19
    Player
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    462
    on a side note there are a few more options other then a vulcan staff a RNG could use with dual weild and still sub something else like sam or war, so not all 1 handed jobs are capable of dual wielding.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,577
    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by Camiie View Post
    Whether it's ideal or not, WAR, as the master of weapons, should have always had dual wield available natively. It just makes sense to me.

    To me, it makes sense for BST to have access to it. I always envisioned the BST as not only fighting alongside a beast, but fighting kind of like one. I always kind of wondered why they didn't use claws when I first started. Dual wielding could come off as a "wilder" fighting style than an axe/shield and thus be fitting for a BST.

    As for RDM and WHM, while it wouldn't bother me, it doesn't make as much sense really. RDMs are fencers (and should have Fencer trait, by the way) which screams "single sword only." WHM feels more natural with a club/shield. I just don't really envision a cleric type class dual wielding.
    Being able to use all weapons doesn't make them masters of said weapons.
    (0)

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