Ternary Flourish : post here if you think it needs to be buffed or removed

[Deathrose]

I personally dont want to see my dnc turned into a melee whm. Yea... we shouldnt be able to do things as good as the other jobs like heal like whm, dd like war, or I guess even evade like ninja(choked on these words btw) but that doesnt mean we should be left without a niche over those jobs. I mean sch can play both whm and blm almost perfectly minus a few spells. Why cant dancer get aoe heals(that matter) and defensive debuffs(paralyze and such) to increase our pts survivability. Seems a little un-fair to me.

[FrankReynolds]

I was just suggesting another stance. We have Saber Dance for melee. Fan Dance for Tanking. Why not a support stance?

[scaevola]

I personally dont want to see my dnc turned into a melee whm. Yea... we shouldnt be able to do things as good as the other jobs like heal like whm, dd like war, or I guess even evade like ninja(choked on these words btw) but that doesnt mean we should be left without a niche over those jobs. I mean sch can play both whm and blm almost perfectly minus a few spells. Why cant dancer get aoe heals(that matter) and defensive debuffs(paralyze and such) to increase our pts survivability. Seems a little un-fair to me.

Because we have something better than that for improving party survivability, called "the highest threat generation in the game coupled with the second highest evasion, the best passive -PDT ability, and uninteruptable healing". Gosh, it's almost like the first Flourish we get should be a provoke or something!



We DO have a niche. We are the best solo job in the game by a mile. If you want to be a ringer in groups there are a dozen other jobs you can play to get you there. Before Abyssea, there may have been some traction to the idea that every job should viable in every event*, but it's moot now since you can level and gear a new job for a particular need in a week or two and that is exactly how it should be in a game with a job system like FFXI's.



*although I still think people only thought certain jobs weren't viable in certain events in an attempt to convince themselves FFXI was harder than it actually was but DOUBLEYEW SLASH EE

[Deathrose]

Ok some of what you are saying is true, we are among the best solo jobs in the game. However, its not the older mobs im talking about. The vast majority of the newer mobs hold not only potent paralysis moves with high dmg but also may have amnesia moves with high dmg making it much much harder for us to solo anything if they keep on this track. I dont mind soloing at all. Im not trying to say i dont like to, but what im saying is with this trend, its unfair to outcast a job because it can't keep up with the incoming dmg. Which is why I say giving us defensive debuffs and strong aoe cures would help when we are forced to have a pt. Make it to where if we wanted to play in a pt we would be more than a viable option to use, reason being why our sambas effect not only us but our pt members as well. In the stage we are in now soloing may go by the wayside since 95-99 are suppose to be the epic levels. Its how it has been for past FF anyway.

Also regarding abyssea. Our journeys in abyssea are coming to a end im afraid so a lot of the buffs we had in there no longer apply. I cant speak for the new voidwatch atma stuff since I havent experienced the atmas yet but as far as the stat boost and such those are gone and I would expect them to stay gone. So to base anything dnc can do, on stuff in abyssea is not really a correct way to look at things. Abyssea has truely spoiled players I feel. Pull them out of abyssea and they forget completely how to play with much lower hp and stats.

[FrankReynolds]

There is a good chance that Dancer can't solo a lot of the good end game gear coming up, so enhancements to party play are probably of the utmost importance. We need to be a great supporter, or a great DD or a great Healer, or we won't be coming Dancer to any of those events. The move that is the actual topic of this thread doesn't contribute to any of those.

[scaevola]

There is a good chance that Dancer can't solo a lot of the good end game gear coming up, so enhancements to party play are probably of the utmost importance. We need to be a great supporter, or a great DD or a great Healer, or we won't be coming Dancer to any of those events. The move that is the actual topic of this thread doesn't contribute to any of those.

And my point is that if you come as a different job for those events, that isn't a bad thing and is exactly how this game ought to work. If there were 5 different endgame events and the min/maxer in you told you to play a different job for each of them, that would actually be perfect as far as I'm concerned. You'd still be soloing on your DNC.

I think the real problem is that one could make a pretty strong case for WHM being the most overpowered healer in the history of MMORPGs, if not the most overpowered class period (taken in comparison with the other classes that can fill its role and the challenge of the content it faces), and so what strengths and niches an unorthodox job like DNC could conceivably provide are rendered pointless by WHM just being miles ahead in every way. You'll always take a WHM to every event, and every healer would be better off if they were a WHM. It's not even comparable to, say, "WAR is the best DD", because it's not like the other healer choices provide different benefits and skillsets that taken as a whole are less effective than WHM, as is the case with WARs and other DDs. The other healers do the exact same stuff, only worse. WHM healing needs a big nerf before DNC healing needs a buff, but this is neither here nor there.

[scaevola]

There is a good chance that Dancer can't solo a lot of the good end game gear coming up, so enhancements to party play are probably of the utmost importance. We need to be a great supporter, or a great DD or a great Healer, or we won't be coming Dancer to any of those events. The move that is the actual topic of this thread doesn't contribute to any of those.

Dancer will remain the most effective choice for soloing everything that can be soloed and will remain the go-to job for farming yourself a EAF+1/semi-+2 set and WoE weapon to start out on whatever job you might like to play. 95 cap and (dare I hope) the roadmap's claim that new NPC areas meaning NPCs in Abyssea makes me think soloing 85 Empyreans would actually be practical; we might not have the best Red !! options but we really are the best claiming job in the game right now.

If you want healing, play WHM. If you want support, play BRD. If you want damage, play WAR. Use DNC to gear all three of them. From there, go ahead and get the new gear, but given that I have seen exactly one piece of Voidwatch gear being worn among the people I've /checked on Cerberus since May and that this is, after all, still the same FFXI where I wore a Haubergeon for 3 years, I'll believe EAF+2 will stop being relevant when I see it.



But yeah, Ternary Flourish is a joke, and I've offered two alternate flourish suggestions that have nothing to do with my personal belief that DNC is fine.

[FrankReynolds]

So once I solo +2 all my gear and finish Twashtar I just retire dancer and play appropriate jobs? Never mind. That wasn't even what I was trying to say. What I was saying is that the New move that this thread is based on is crap, and I would suggest something different. Even if you think that dancer is just for solo and other more specialized jobs should be brought to events, this move still sucks. It really has no benefits. Just the 1-2 second delay from using it would probably negate all the gain from the extra hits. It really is just a way to waste some TP.

[scaevola]

Well, in my defense, I'm mostly responding to Shiyo and DeathRose saying DNC sucks because it doesn't particularly excel exactly the way they wish it would. You'll get no argument from me if all you're saying is that Ternary Flourish is pointless.

It's probably just a philosophical difference and if so I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree, but I still say that the whole idea of "maining" a job and playing it in every situation sells short what continues to set FFXI apart from its competition, misses the whole point of Abyssea, and maybe even misses what set Final Fantasy apart from its competition in general, at least in terms of gameplay. But hey, reasonable minds can disagree.

[Deathrose]

By no means at all am I saying dnc sucks. In fact! Its most definitely my pride and joy, which is why I want to see it excel. Now basically what im say is. Why not give ppl the option of playing that job and still be as capable as if they were to come said ideal job? I understand that in some cases a change of job is in order but like in most other ff games if not all of them there were always ways of making a strong combo with said desireable job, if you catch what im saying. Whm will never, NEVER be replaced as a healer. I mean whm has always been a main healer and its only right that a whm more than likely if not always be in need. I think whm should be left as it is and just enhance other jobs to do better, but still not as good as whm. I may be contridicting myself some where here, but anyway my bottom line is make dancer a stronger option in party support and defensive debuff to make us a viable option to bring. I dont want to see all my blood, sweat, and tears just fade away before my eyes because of what seems to be the only way of doing things.