DRK Adjustments via Manifesto

[Soidisant]

Oh I don't disagree with that but I'm saying we can't have it all our way. It seems like people expect us to be the best DD in game despite us also being better than most other DD's defensive wise and then getting situational magic on top of that. Granted a lot of people would drop the extras for more damage but we know that won't happen.

We do need something to help us damage wise but outside Abyssea we aren't as far behind as people like to portray us. Inside Abyssea it's purely our lack of a crit WS that hinders us which is more of an issue with certain atmas being ridiculously overpowered imo. Guillotine would have made perfect sense to be a crit WS but it clearly isn't happening and endgame looks to be going away from Abyssea anyway so it's potentially not as relevant for the future.

I just don't think people being unrealistic about what we need helps our cause. I know if one of my employees at work made unreasonable requests I'd just shoot them down whereas if they made semi-reasonable requests I'd be far more likely to consider them or come to a compromise.

[Chriscoffey]

The point is that you said this which is blatantly untrue.



Anything that kills a DRK in that situation kills a WAR too. The difference being that a DRK can potentially prevent it happening whereas all a WAR can do is throw up Defender which probably isn't going to save it.

EDIT: Also an example of this happened today in Ein. Both the Ukon WAR and Masamune SAM died whilst I did not and it wasn't due to it being on them rather than me as we were taking our own mobs. It was because I was able to stun the moves that could have killed me whereas they could not and got doomed/one-shotted.

So your counter is that stun makes dark more powerful to dodge a TP/spell compared to warrior hence we should be significantly weaker DD. I concur about the defensive part but my relevant point was the damage portion of the this discussion. Warrior was the do everything job where dark was the i kill myself but kill you job. Warrior could sub dark knight and stun and weapon bash to stun mobs. If your X hit build doesn't require /sam then its a viable option to counter the stunning defense.

[Zatias]

Wow. That ability was potentially incredible. Why am I still shocked at SE's lack of common sense? D;

[Malacite]

To be fair. I usually do if i'm full timing hasso and going balls out.

DRK still use Hasso?

[Dart]

when LR is down fuck yes we do. apoc more so to make the drain more useful. I pretty much never take it off even when LR is up and i'm using apoc. With caladbolg it depends. If I have my godly whm i still pretty much fulltime hasso lol. extra str is extra str.

[Malacite]

Eh, I think I'd rather have the extra HP, Berserk & Aggressor (gogo +50% attack bonus) and double attack. It's only 1:10 (for me anyway) that LE is down, so big deal.

Or even /SAM and full-time Seigan, especially if you're going to be taking hate.

[StingRay104]

I love how everyone compares a DRK using having dreadspikes on and stun available to a war going all out in ultra dd mode as a viable option for who has the most defensive capabilities, its kinda like the arguement I had with Korpg and Leonlionheart way back in this forum were they said, to hell with actually trying to use my defensive capabilities I want defense while I'm going all out on this thing. DRK has 1 defensive spell, its called Dreadspikes and is limited, now if they do something to boost it IE remove the hp cap limitations, reduce casting/recast time, or just increase its current hp limit by x amount then sure it would help support your theories about DRK's defense. Stun is an enfeeble, just like sleep and break, which we now have. Stun is a very effective spell to help stop disastrous attacks from killing them or others, but most nms that have these moves also build resistance to stun or are flat out immune to it, as also they are to sleep and break. I really wish I didn't have to argue with idiots about DRK's defense vs wars but sadly this is the FFXI forums so lets just say that we ignore this whole conversation because its not gonna go anywhere at all and ultimately its just gonna confuse the DEVS on the more important matter.


The new JA absolutely sucks, I mean come on SE are you even trying? We get 1 min to get 50% of our damage down to get the rest of that time as a 20% increase in damage? That is absolute bullshit, pure grade A, born in a barn, been left in 110 degree weather for 3 weeks BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your next post Camate should be "The current duration and recast timers on this new JA aren't at the standard that the DEVS intended for this ability and we will be adjusting them both soon." But lets face reality, the odds of us getting that are slim to none and slim is working on Vs XIII (aka gone to the Bahamas). If the ability offered us a 75% increase in damage then yes this would be a very good timer setup to use, seeing as we have to lose 50% of our max hp just to trigger it. How about this SE, make it so its either a JT or a 2hr duration JA that as soon as you accumulate 50% hp in damage you get a boost in damage for 1 min, at least then it would offer something.

Back to the drawing boards devs you have once again failed to appease the populace.

[Selzak]

I wish they'd just nerf Dread Spikes and make it last longer. Let it have up to the same effect ultimately, but not wear off after a minute even if you haven't been hit. Oh, and pull back just a tad on the Absorb-TP nerf...PLEASE. "Oh, that's a little too powerful. Solution? Make it not even worth casting."

I really, really believe that DRK needs a new 2hr. The only use it got was very situational and has been nerfed into oblivion. Now it's all but usless, especially compared to other jobs' 2hrs. Blood Weapon shouldn't be a 8min recast JA that procs on Weapon Skills though, that's just silly. I think Blood Weapon should simply be a trait that procs occasionally- hopefully meritable. This would do a lot for the job's maintainability, it would be unexploitable, and it would be very balanced. BW would become our DA.

We need more debuffing capabilities, still. Really glad to see the new Absorb spell though.

For debuffing, I think a job trait that occasionally inflicts an enfeeble when the DRK is hit would be a perfect match for the job. It could be called Diseased and occasionally occasionally inflict plague or something. I see this benefiting DRK mostly in solo situations for survival.

DRK needs access to at least one strong, unique debuff. Give us Amnesia on Weapon Bash- SAM got Plague ffs, that doesn't even make sense.

Add an interesting aspect to the Scythe vs. Greatsword choice. Maybe a scythe-wielding DRK would be more offense and a greatsword-wielding DRK would be more defensive/utility? Just, something.


Oh, and the new JA. The conditions involved make it seem like this is going to be worthless. Why not make it so that SD will inflict Amnesia on the DRK while it is active (maybe even make the DRK uncurable as well) and gradually grant an increase to damage%? When the effect wears off or is cancelled, the damage boost begins to decay sharply.

There you have a sacrifice and a usable ability. The most common use here would probably be to keep it up for the full minute to get a 20% boost, then pop a WS real quick before it starts to fall. Either that or use the JA when it's up, then cancel it when you get TP for a WS. It would be much more usable this way, while still paying a pretty heavy price.

[SpankWustler]

They have drains/catastrophe HP drain and dread spikes + stun however.. i typically do things with a mage and that alone makes either job survive. For most darks without apocalypse they are going to be waiting on timers and be dead before it even matters. Warriors could potentially throw up defender to at least negate partial damage where dark is already at a loss. The bottom line is just because dark can survive a few more hits has no bearing on the fact they sacrifice their defense and other DD abilities to do way more damage. A mage can will have less trouble curing a warrior than a regular dark when they have their tools in use. I will longer on my warrior than i do on my dark knight taking into account having a mage.

I know it says "Defense" next to a number and all that jazz, but it's pointless. Just pretend the number represents something else, like the number of tacos that a really fat guy can eat in the course of a day.

Yes, Warrior does have abilities that some demented developer thinks add to it's survivability. Those abilities are actually useless. Dark Knight has several abilities that can actually add to the job's survivability, and the damage taken through use of Souleater can be made negligible through proper support.

Putting that aside, the duration of Scarlet Delirium is ridiculous considering it has an added condition. If it could "charge" while not active, this duration might be acceptable.

[Dart]

war has always had one and only one viable type of defensive capability. The ability to kill shit faster than it can kill them. That's it unless you do something silly like go /pld and try to shield tank (which consequently I have on fafnir! lol)

trying to not count the utility of stun, sleep, bind, dread spikes, weapon bash, etc is just blatantly being obtuse.