The Mysteries of Vana 'Diel

[Yamimarik44]

I had actually been toying with this thought for a while and here's what I came up with.

It was mentioned earlier that it was Carbuncle's plan to create pacts between the five races and the Celestials to prevent their rejoining of the mothercrystals. However, now that Karaha-Buraha and the Champions of Abyssea (read: Vana'dielian Adventurers) are gone and their Summoners with them, the Celestials of Abyssea likely went on a field day.

Pacts are apparently a strong thing with Avatars of all kinds. If not for Nag'molada keeping the pact between the Kuluu and Bahamut (as seen during the CoP 2-5), Bahamut would have destroyed Riverne after appeared and summong Vrtra, Tiamat, and company. Fenrir likely wouldn't have saved Windurst during the Great War either, if not for Karaha and his strong ties to the current Sibyl.

However, the Celestials in Abyssea are likely just running amok for the sake of it. Ever have that feeling where you just wanna lie in bed all day, do nothing, play some FFXI? The Celestials are asleep for millenia and you want them to get up and work? Pffffft. Shinryu is already extradorinarly close to executing their plan for them, so what do they have to do? They might help him along by attempting to destroy the resistance a bit, but the end is neigh, in their eyes, so why not have some fun before Paradise is returned? I mean, it's not like they can go on killing sprees when there's nothing to kill.

Also, remember, not all Celestials are roamers in Abyssea areas. Some are stuck between Abyssea and Vana'dial as Voidwalkers. Which leads me to wonder what happened to Abyssea's Dynamis if Diabolos was similarly corrupt and is a Voidwalker. I have a bad feeling we may see Fenrir, as he is the only one we don't have a monster of/theory for. Bahamut, as someone said, was likely destroyed by Shinryu, Carbuncle said 'Eff it.' The way I see it, actually, Adventurers shouldn't be able to summon in Abyssea for above reasons, unless Avatars can transend dimentional barriers as well. I suppose you could argue that, since Abyssean Avatars can Voidwalk, Vana'dielian Avatars can transcend dimensions. But then that brings up an interesting point: Why is it only the Adventurers of Vana'dial are the only ones that care about Abyssea? You'd think that the Terrestrials would know about it and would want to do something. *shrug*

What I would like to know is what happened to Abyssean Kuluu and why they're even more corrupt as well. In addition to that, and maybe I just haven't done enough quests within Abyssea (realistically, I've done like, four, aside from mega boss quests >.< ), I'd like to know what happened to the Abyssean Beastmen. Surely they met the same fate as the five races, but their story is largely (read: completely) left out. And what of the Mithran Homeland (why can no one remember what it's called? thought it started with a 'G'...), Aht Urghan, and the Far East? Am I leaving out a continent to the west and/or the homeland of the Orcs/Gigas to the north? MOAR CAVERNOUS MAWS PLS.

As I'm typing this, I'm answering my own question, but left it up for conversation sake. The Tonberries blindly follow Promaithia and have likely recognized his advent via Shinryu and aligned themselves with him. Sucks for them that they get wiped out when he finishes reforming the mothercrystals.

Also, I understand the need for the mechanic of Relic armor in place in Dynamis, but since it's clearly stated many times the Empire stayed out of the war, why is it the armor of the elite Immortals (you know, the ones that don't go anywhere or do anything without command? likely, this Immortal would have been GIVING the orders), the best court entertainers (c'mon, us PUPs don't much like war...) , and Ephramaudian descendents (aren't they too busy leading a rebellion?) show up in Dynamis areas? I can understand some deserters/travellers...but it's HIGHLY unlikely that the 'best of the best of the best, SIR' decided to travel to Xarcabard and die. I fully understand the reason DNC and SCH gear is there and why it just decided to show up after WotG took place.

Thoughts? Ideas?

^ This man right here as MANY of the questions I'd love to see answered!

[Darkzeru]

Why do mandies sometime duck into the ground while fighting them? (unless that's some sort of glitch)

[SpankWustler]

Why do mandies sometime duck into the ground while fighting them? (unless that's some sort of glitch)

It seems to be their guard animation. If the guard animation for players was equally awesome, maybe the skill wouldn't be a total waste.

[Yamimarik44]

Why do mandies sometime duck into the ground while fighting them? (unless that's some sort of glitch)

Yeah I've noticed this too, and it's usually when they're guarding, also it goes a long with They're Mandragora's they come from the ground, so they would naturally go under to guard from an attack.

[Xellith]

Just thought that maybe he was destroyed when Shinryu took over the moon? Just an idea.

I doubt this to be the case. The avatars get their power from the particular element that exists. Just because you dont see them doesnt meant they arnt there. Im going to go and say that the moon still exists so fenrir is somewhere. He is probobly in the full moon fountain. Didnt fenrir have something to do with the keeper of apocalypse? I forget what happened it was so many years ago.

(stupid SE realeasing mini updates so you forget what you started)

With regards to what i read about we shouldnt really be able to summon avatars in abyssea - i have to disagree with this. We are imbued with some of the avatars strength when we make the pact. We carry a portion of the avatars power with us always.

[Matty]

Its said by several NPCs (noticeably the ladybug wing quest) that many species were hunted to extinction and that is why they are no longer around. Some species like colibri could be migratory and according to the game just might not be in the zone at the time but might return at another season.

I could've sworn somewhere it mentioned colibri were native to the near east, like Apkallus or Mamool Ja. But I'm probably remembering wrong. :P

[Ank]

As far as fenrir, its quite possible that abyssea's you never restored karaha's and fenrirs spirits.

and as for the roaming avatars.. well its a little weird, they're all celestials except carby in la theine, and the void walkers are duplicates except diabolos. like say, pavan in konschtat and gamayun in grauberg. Are these seperate entities? Further avatars of the unseen primes? If the mothercrystal is destroyed and the end times are come, why avatars and not the primes?

Furthermore, what about that campaign guy that seems to have a permanent ifrit pet named something else, is that an avatar of ifrit?

[Sparthos]

I had actually been toying with this thought for a while and here's what I came up with.

It was mentioned earlier that it was Carbuncle's plan to create pacts between the five races and the Celestials to prevent their rejoining of the mothercrystals. However, now that Karaha-Buraha and the Champions of Abyssea (read: Vana'dielian Adventurers) are gone and their Summoners with them, the Celestials of Abyssea likely went on a field day.

I see it a bit differently.

Abyssea is supposed to be a parallel universe and many of the same individuals we know in Vana'diel maintain their names so why would the celestials and terrestrials suddenly have different names?

Promathia is still known on Abyssea as Promathia and many individuals invoke Altana's name in their dialogue.

Pacts are apparently a strong thing with Avatars of all kinds. If not for Nag'molada keeping the pact between the Kuluu and Bahamut (as seen during the CoP 2-5), Bahamut would have destroyed Riverne after appeared and summong Vrtra, Tiamat, and company. Fenrir likely wouldn't have saved Windurst during the Great War either, if not for Karaha and his strong ties to the current Sibyl.

The question to be raised is why Diabolos and Carbuncle would merely sit aside and roam zones instead of mounting an effective counter-attack against Promathia?

Even if we assume Bahamut to be defeated and Phoenix devoured (as she was part of Sel'theus), the remaining 3 terrestrials would be destroyed with the rest of Abyssea if Promathia reunited crystals and destroyed the planet.

It just doesn't make sense for them to merely randomly attack adventurers.

It is more likely that the "avatars" we see roaming are merely elemental beasts that now roam the land due to the sheer devastation wrought by Promathia. This would be similar to the same tactic used by SE with Gariri in Campaign and her Flame Giant.

Gariri's dialogue: Ah, the Fates have brought you to Gariri the Magnificent! Why am I thus called, you ask? Why, because only I was magnificent enough to decryptify those mysteriously marvelous Near eastern tomes and open a window to...the Other Side!

While the giant may look like Ifrit (for the sake of SE saving money on models), it is an elemental beast she summoned through near eastern magics and not a fragment of celestial avatar power.

However, the Celestials in Abyssea are likely just running amok for the sake of it. Ever have that feeling where you just wanna lie in bed all day, do nothing, play some FFXI? The Celestials are asleep for millenia and you want them to get up and work? Pffffft. Shinryu is already extradorinarly close to executing their plan for them, so what do they have to do? They might help him along by attempting to destroy the resistance a bit, but the end is neigh, in their eyes, so why not have some fun before Paradise is returned? I mean, it's not like they can go on killing sprees when there's nothing to kill.

If the celestials were awake, why would they manifest themselves in multiple forms rather than be complete and fight at full strength? Also, why would Jala then be called Ogopogo in another zone? Even if we assumed that the names of the celestials are different in Abyssea, multiple names put the celestials theory into serious question.

Further, this also assumes that Carbuncles tactic of allowing the celestials to experience Vana'diel through the summoners has completely failed.

Also, remember, not all Celestials are roamers in Abyssea areas. Some are stuck between Abyssea and Vana'dial as Voidwalkers. Which leads me to wonder what happened to Abyssea's Dynamis if Diabolos was similarly corrupt and is a Voidwalker. I have a bad feeling we may see Fenrir, as he is the only one we don't have a monster of/theory for. Bahamut, as someone said, was likely destroyed by Shinryu, Carbuncle said 'Eff it.' The way I see it, actually, Adventurers shouldn't be able to summon in Abyssea for above reasons, unless Avatars can transend dimentional barriers as well. I suppose you could argue that, since Abyssean Avatars can Voidwalk, Vana'dielian Avatars can transcend dimensions. But then that brings up an interesting point: Why is it only the Adventurers of Vana'dial are the only ones that care about Abyssea? You'd think that the Terrestrials would know about it and would want to do something. *shrug*

This is something I think SE didn't really think through. Even if we assume Bahamut to be defeated, the terrestrials should have at least mounted an offensive given they would have known about the Keeper of the Apocalypse and his ultimate aim.

What I would like to know is what happened to Abyssean Kuluu and why they're even more corrupt as well. In addition to that, and maybe I just haven't done enough quests within Abyssea (realistically, I've done like, four, aside from mega boss quests >.< ), I'd like to know what happened to the Abyssean Beastmen. Surely they met the same fate as the five races, but their story is largely (read: completely) left out. And what of the Mithran Homeland (why can no one remember what it's called? thought it started with a 'G'...), Aht Urghan, and the Far East? Am I leaving out a continent to the west and/or the homeland of the Orcs/Gigas to the north? MOAR CAVERNOUS MAWS PLS.

The mothercrystals are in the middle lands and thus while Aht, Gho Naboeh (sp?) and the Far East were likely not outright destroyed, they all must know of the destruction in the middle lands.

Tenzen failed to report back meaning emptiness is still distracting them from the true threat, Shikaree Zs disappearance means that the Mithra are unaware of the information she gleamed from the Al'taieu expedition and Aht Urhgan is likely so caught up in their wars against the beastmen that they see the monsters overwhelming the middle lands as a boon to their expansionist aims.

Then again, you'd think everyone on Vana'diel would notice the moon inching towards the planet.

[Wolfandre]

I see it a bit differently.

Abyssea is supposed to be a parallel universe and many of the same individuals we know in Vana'diel maintain their names so why would the celestials and terrestrials suddenly have different names?

Promathia is still known on Abyssea as Promathia and many individuals invoke Altana's name in their dialogue.

The question to be raised is why Diabolos and Carbuncle would merely sit aside and roam zones instead of mounting an effective counter-attack against Promathia?

Even if we assume Bahamut to be defeated and Phoenix devoured (as she was part of Sel'theus), the remaining 3 terrestrials would be destroyed with the rest of Abyssea if Promathia reunited crystals and destroyed the planet.

It just doesn't make sense for them to merely randomly attack adventurers.

It is more likely that the "avatars" we see roaming are merely elemental beasts that now roam the land due to the sheer devastation wrought by Promathia. This would be similar to the same tactic used by SE with Gariri in Campaign and her Flame Giant.

If the celestials were awake, why would they manifest themselves in multiple forms rather than be complete and fight at full strength? Also, why would Jala then be called Ogopogo in another zone? Even if we assumed that the names of the celestials are different in Abyssea, multiple names put the celestials theory into serious question.

Further, this also assumes that Carbuncles tactic of allowing the celestials to experience Vana'diel through the summoners has completely failed.

The mothercrystals are in the middle lands and thus while Aht, Gho Naboeh (sp?) and the Far East were likely not outright destroyed, they all must know of the destruction in the middle lands.

Tenzen failed to report back meaning emptiness is still distracting them from the true threat, Shikaree Zs disappearance means that the Mithra are unaware of the information she gleamed from the Al'taieu expedition and Aht Urhgan is likely so caught up in their wars against the beastmen that they see the monsters overwhelming the middle lands as a boon to their expansionist aims.

Then again, you'd think everyone on Vana'diel would notice the moon inching towards the planet.

There is truth in this, but someone also brought up the Tribune articles regarding the Avatars: the layman doesn't know about the Celestials/Terrestrials. The only ones that do (researches at the Rhinostery and the Champions of Abyssea) were likely wiped out. So we can assume that these Avatars ARE the Celestials, but they find themselves with differing names based upon survivors' accounts.

I mean, look at notorious monsters in general. They didn't name themselves. Adventurers, travellers, and lesser monsters named them that because of what they do, their accomplishments, or what they are. Otherwise, they'd just be the same monsters, but with tougher stats.

As for Diabolos and Carbuncle...with the absence of Dynamis and rainbows, one can guess that the Emptiness is now so deep seated that it is affecting even the purest of beings. Or, since we only see Diabolos as a Voidwalker, maybe he's trying to escape Abyssea, or is merely a corrupt echo of him like we see in Dreamland zones. No idea on Carbuncle/Akash, however. We can probably guess that limules, and caturae and such were also products of Emptiness or the relocation of the Empyreal Paradox.

Wouldn't Aht Urghan have been destroyed because of that whole deal with Odin and Alexander? I dunno, it's been a long time since I went through that story, so I can't quite place it.

[Urthdigger]

I really think that those mobs are simply elemental beasts that share a model. It makes a lot more sense that way.