Ther case for -Prep as related to gear ect

[Korpg]

Just because this game ends at DCs for you doesn't mean it does for the rest of us, you continue to play with your little melee setup and brag about all the DCs you can melee, the rest of us will be off killing NMs with ease.

Quoted for the truth of it all. Also, what I have been saying for months now.

[Dallas]

Just because this game ends at DCs for you doesn't mean it does for the rest of us, you continue to play with your little melee setup and brag about all the DCs you can melee, the rest of us will be off killing NMs with ease.

Aww, did you give up? You lasted so long on your "Gimp means I'm pimp."

Any last Gimp thoughts Raz? You have failed soloing trash mobs and perp gear, and now you want to be recognized for BP/release. It's time to accept you just aren't end game smn material.

[Razushu]

Aww, did you give up? You lasted so long on your "Gimp means I'm pimp."

Any last Gimp thoughts Raz? You have failed soloing trash mobs and perp gear, and now you want to be recognized for BP/release. It's time to accept you just aren't end game smn material.

BP/release <huh!?> who mentioned that? I've never failed at soloing trash mobs, just you fail at picking trash mobs to solo. I was talking about soloing NMs, you know the true test of a Summoner's skill, and strangely a subject on which you're very quiet.

[Dallas]

Yeah, totally not interested in what you have to say anymore. Me, silent on soloing? LOL goodbye.

[Razushu]

Yeah, totally not interested in what you have to say anymore. Me, silent on soloing? LOL goodbye.

Unless it's a DC you're plenty silent on soloing, unless you care to shed some light on it....

[Tannlore]

Oy.... oy oy

My head hurts all over again, seriously guys? *Rolls his a newspaper and uses hexastrike on all of you*

There's melee for you!

Ya know, I've been hearing this argument now for years on Ffxiclopedia's forums and the fact that it's spilled over to here has made me a very sad panda. So much derailment happened there and is happening here too.

Alright then, let's make some magic!!!

PROOF!

How about some good old fashioned proof folks? Who cares about what anyone can theoretically do eh? I don't give three cait siths how many EP/DC/EM/IT/IT+++ you say can solo. Or how many NMs you say can tickle till you're blue in the face. Or how fast you can wax your epeen in compassion to 15 other people in the span of some made up amount of time.

Let's have some proof!

Youtube is waiting for you! Post those videos up and let's see it! Put your money where your mouth is, or shut your traps. Cause seriously at this point, it's getting old.... Oh... so... old.

[Soranika]

Seems rather intangible. Melee and non melee styles of playing SMN are possible, but melee smn are no good at solo'ing NMs. I shouldn't say no good because if the NM is relatively manageable (as in not owning your avatar flat out in 3 minutes or less), it comes down to knowing when to disengage, run like made to a safe distance and resummon when your avatar falls so you won't be stuck struggling to resummon while taking damage.

At the same time, I wouldn't call kiting NM while solo'ing NMs 'easy'. I personally don't choose to solo NMs cause I don't want to be stuck there for 15-20 minutes or some times longer on an NM that will more than likely not drop what I'm looking for. I stomached it when fighting Cernunnos solo cause I really didn't want to bother for something I knew I could do myself... To me, solo'ing tough NMs period (especially if you're looking for a specific drop) is just as inefficient when there's people you could have with you to help like ls members, friends, or random people who want to experience new things and not fail at it. (They DO exist. I've met a few who helped with BCNMs.)

I gotta say that never have I've played a game where there's this much infighting about a choice of playing style.

[Razushu]

Seems rather intangible. Melee and non melee styles of playing SMN are possible, but melee smn are no good at solo'ing NMs. I shouldn't say no good because if the NM is relatively manageable (as in not owning your avatar flat out in 3 minutes or less), it comes down to knowing when to disengage, run like made to a safe distance and resummon when your avatar falls so you won't be stuck struggling to resummon while taking damage.

If your Avatar will die at all during an NM fight melee is completely impossible, unless it's a very weak NM, your Avatar only dies once, and you do less damage in total than a single Blood Pact: Rage. Soloing on Summoner requires hate to be finely balanced, on a prolonged fight even getting caught Summoning can cause the NM to ignore your Avatar until you use a BP:R, which can lead to complications.

At the same time, I wouldn't call kiting NM while solo'ing NMs 'easy'. I personally don't choose to solo NMs cause I don't want to be stuck there for 15-20 minutes or some times longer on an NM that will more than likely not drop what I'm looking for. I stomached it when fighting Cernunnos solo cause I really didn't want to bother for something I knew I could do myself... To me, solo'ing tough NMs period (especially if you're looking for a specific drop) is just as inefficient when there's people you could have with you to help like ls members, friends, or random people who want to experience new things and not fail at it. (They DO exist. I've met a few who helped with BCNMs.)

Kiting NMs solo is really easy, do enough of it and it becomes second nature. Outside Abyssea killing it solo has the same chance of getting your drop as with a group. When you factor in the time it would take to get a group organised and fight it Vs. just going out to fight it, the time spent would probably equal out. Soloing on SMN isn't as inefficent as you think, I solo 1'ed my WHM head on Whiro in one evenings play. That being said I do things with my ls, friends, randoms, and I have fun/get the job done.

I gotta say that never have I've played a game where there's this much infighting about a choice of playing style.

It's not the playstyle itself, I have no real problem with mage melees, the problem I have is the claim it's the only way to play, it's the only way to keep MP up indefinitely, it's useful everywhere, and my personal favorite, even if you can't melee on a fight the melee staff is still superior to a -perp staff.

Honestly though, even though I have no problem with the playstyle it kind of baffles me(the logic behind it, not how to do it that parts easy). The jobs in this game were designed to fill certain roles, and everyone gets a taste for what roles they like early on, leveling WHM to sub to BLM I figured out prefer support roles, but also liked to do things on my own(which naturally led into SMN). It makes little sense to me to to take up a job get it to cap and gear it for something it doesn't excel at. Take melee SMNs they like to get their hands dirty and fight alongside their pets, the goal is now max damage, which SMN isn't great at and there are plenty of jobs that do this much better. Three of these other jobs are even pet jobs, one of which you don't even need to completely give up the support angle(PUP), why not pick up one of these when your goal is to play their style of gameplay?

[Soranika]

I don't know how to answer that question. With current job repertoire, I often wonder why I didn't make a Taru Taru. lol But I guess race impact on a job isn't as large as how you play it.

I get what you're saying though. I melee for giggles on my own time and I know SMNs are horrible at hate management when out damaging their avatars and are not viable as DD themselves. But I guess whatever float people's boat.

[Tannlore]

Honestly though, even though I have no problem with the playstyle it kind of baffles me(the logic behind it, not how to do it that parts easy). The jobs in this game were designed to fill certain roles, and everyone gets a taste for what roles they like early on, leveling WHM to sub to BLM I figured out prefer support roles, but also liked to do things on my own(which naturally led into SMN). It makes little sense to me to to take up a job get it to cap and gear it for something it doesn't excel at. Take melee SMNs they like to get their hands dirty and fight alongside their pets, the goal is now max damage, which SMN isn't great at and there are plenty of jobs that do this much better. Three of these other jobs are even pet jobs, one of which you don't even need to completely give up the support angle(PUP), why not pick up one of these when your goal is to play their style of gameplay?

I'll answer that one. Why don't you play these other jobs you suggested then? It is because you love to play summoner. Not black mage, not puppetmaster, not warrior, not dark knight, not dragoon, etc. Melee smn are of the mindset of maximizing their damage within their job limits and why not? Why wouldn't you want to optimize your damage however you could?

I have pup/drg/drk/blm 90 when I want that kind of play style for damage I will switch to them. But that isn't the case in point and that's what is being lost here in all the epeen-testosterone-juvenile-nonsense that's frankly ruining topics on this board.

There is ...nothing... wrong with taking your staff out and swinging it around besides your avatars. (and there is ... nothing... wrong with standing back either honestly). Yes, you should use your brain and do it with some amount of thought. Don't go taking your staff out on an AoE happy mob or one with a hate rest move where you'll be tanking and quickly in the ground. But other things? Your damage only adds to your avatars, why wouldn't you want to do this? I've never understood the resistance to this. This behavior baffles me the most. As the mages who CAN do this, why don't we?

Our emp staff, which I have us amazing for just this very thing. Why would SE give us this if not for this purpose. A level 3 aftermath and pretty much nothing is living for long at all that isn't an nm. AA/RR/Apoc one Blood Pact, three swings from me (at most) and any regular mob... no matter what the con in aby is gone. I Swing and hit for over 700+ dmg with that monster (and no I don't tank after letting my avatar BP first....really people, have brains about this. Let the avatar do the tanking). If you have trouble managing your hate vs. your avatar go out there and learn how avatar hate management works and stop thinking its some fickle unknown process. Enmity - merits/gear and avatar/pet enmity+ gear works wonnnddeerrs as a start to ending your pet enmity woes (you aren't using favor are you? That messes up enmity btw).

The animosity that comes from people wanting to stand back or join in with their pets needs to stop. It's two different play styles that have been around since I first played back when this game came out. The JPs were doing these two types of things too. Dallas and other NA players weren't the first people to take out their staves against monsters, no matter how much they may think they were.