Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Yugl]

That depends, what special kind of retard are you? Are you really trying to argue that TH'ing a mob is skill dependant?

Ironically, your buddies in this thread are a perfect example of why it is. Anything a melee has to do, a THF will have to do as well. This include very very basic stuff like PDT/MDT sets, TPing, WSing, and using JAs. Unlike these other melees, however, THF has to to position themselves properly for SA/TA, which supposedly improve the rate of TH enhancement. According to people whining in this thread, they apparently can't do it because of hate issues. So yes, according to the complainers in this thread, THF does take more skill (knowledge of enmity) than other melees.

OK, no you aren't, you are agreeing with me. Did you read that post you quoted?

The post that you pointed to made the retarded assertion that skill determines the melee you bring and said that, unlike melee, determining your THF is by gear. This completely misses the fact that gear determines your damage. You cannot will more damage per hit if your gear is inferior. You cannot will more damage per weaponskill if your gear is inferior.

This is a fallacy. You don't get an equal comparison when playing with individuals.

Equal comparison means DRG v DRG or WAR v WAR. Are you honestly trying to suggest no one has had to choose between two of the same class before?

You get the guy that maybe WS's at ~180% if he remembers to. Doesn't eat proper food. Might not have a clue how to land his procs clean. Does he have the combat skills leveled, with the weapons to trigger all the weaknesses his job can? Is he flexible? Does he know how to react to various situations? Does he even have PDT/MDT sets if things go south?

Does the THF know how to handle capped enmity situations so he can SA properly? Does the THF even bother to TA? Do they even bother to position themselves properly? Note that these are treasure hunter enhancing. PDT/MDT applies to THF as well. Is your dagger skill leveled up to land TH? Does he have an evasion set for duo situations where needed? Does he know how to react to bad situations? What exactly are you trying to get at when most of these apply to THF as well. Quite frankly, anyone who does do what you call "skillful acts" is utterly stupid and will make as many mistakes (or more) trying to heighten TH on THF.

Obviously this is is gear dependant, but you are only making my point here. It's about multiple gear swaps for many different situations with the knowledge and skill to use them with appropriate timing. It is an active process that takes a bit of knowledge, skill, rare gear collection.

Applying TH is non of that. It is a passive trait. All the pieces are stupid easy to obtain. No one cares what you do, or what other gear you have. As long as you have TH6. You can literally main hand a THF knife, nothing in the offhand, be wearing nothing but the hands and feet and still do your job the exact same. You either have TH6 or you don't. Beyond that, a discussion of player skill never enters the equation for bringing TH.

Maybe the old TH, but the new TH seems to branch from that concept entirely with new emphasis on SATA abuse. What even more interesting is that according to your logic, BRDs are in dire need of an upgrade as well. They only need roughly 3 pieces of gear to match a "well geared" BRD's marches and the rest is duration, which is irrelevant when you can just cast the song again. Prior to abyssea (And I only say this because I'm uncertain if it's still the case) BRDs bragged about how Elegy (Their most potent debuff) landed on most mobs with just Terra's staff. However, I think most people would agree that BRD is fine. Hence, I don't think the criteria you set up accurately captures the issue with THF.

THF was supreme in all aspects? When was this?

Prior to abyssea, who, besides THF, reigned supreme at making items drop? No one.

Actually, they can both reach the -50% MDT cap with gear and shellra V so...no. They don't. The point of that was in response to the comment that "THF should not get updates and is fine because it is a defensive job." Which is not true.

Read carefully bud. I said easier access. The number of MDT pieces for THF outweighs WAR.

This is why I think you aren't reading what is being written. No one is crying "overpowered" at WAR. That comparison I used to THF damage compared to other WAR DD can be used for any other DD.

You would have to be blind to not see the number of posts directed against WAR.

Its just today the gap between a Good THF and a Good WAR has widened to a point where the THF is largely undermined as a DD and defaults to TH whore. Closing the gap a tad won't nerf other jobs or make them less desirable.

Stacked THF WS are not even as strong as WAR WS.

This one cannot apply to all melee (BST, and mob depending, DRG).

war getting the ability to force crit outside abyssea without a positional restriction is just wrong

I agree its complete bs that war gets everything and other jobs get ignored.

So uh... no one is complaining about WAR huh?

In the DD department, we are not saying we want to be the best, or on top of the pile, or a heavy-DD or any herp a derp nonesense. What we HAVE been saying for quite a while now is that the gap is currently too large.

Show me where I said THFs are looking to be the best DD. Having trouble finding that part? That's probably because I never said that. What I did say is that THF should remain at less than suboptimal damage. This means you need to stop using WAR as your example and compare the lesser tier DDs such as BST. Even your buddy RNG gets rocked in the DD department once we start stacking haste buffs.

Especially given that our enmity utility is not useful to anyone, from the response we just got, our steal abilities are going to stay useless because SE is afraid of them. And Treasure Hunter is going to remain marginalized due to Weakness trigger procs, and being given away to other jobs.

TH only remains marginalized to the extent that the proc!! system remains relevant to content people do. Abyssea's proc!! system will soon favor TH as people begin to focus solely on Empyrean weapons. VW I already said is the bane for THF and suggested that THF be given the ability to affect casket rewards.

Actually THF was skewed towards parties with tanks, SATA lines, closing distortion skillchains and raping faces with......DAMAGE!!!!! YAY!!!!!! SATA damage and stacking WS was a MUCH bigger relative damage payoff than it is today. THF was a great DD for all of its early life.

Yes, SE look at THF and gave their WS distortion property so they could be awesome DDs. That clearly didn't happen by chance. Know what THF did with those tanks? They managed enmity, so hey, you can get all the enmity quarks you need! The best part about THF as a DD was SATA, but that was merely because pDIF was ridiculous business for DDs back then. If anything, the abilities had more to do with lore than with a concerted effort towards THF's melee capabilities. The introduction of sub THF further marginalized their role as DD as DRKs and WAR came to dominate the SATA WS scene.

Going from the origional description of the job...SE described THF as a "stealthy attacker," that looks for the perfect opportunity to attack from behind and suprise its enemies.

And we've been over this about a million times on this forum. You are barking up a very wrong tree if you are trying to argue things like gilfinder, steal, despoil, mug, coffer picking to help your case. All of these things were taken away or made useless because SE is afraid of them. Whatever their "vision" for the job was then, it has most certainly changed.

Do you not read? The entire reason we're reviewing those is because the person made the claim that THF is a DD because a majority of their Traits/JAs are centered towards DD. Turns out that's not the case though!