DRK Adjustments via Manifesto

[Leonlionheart]

So you come on a DRK thread and tell us all to lvl war?

You say that DRK and war are the same?

You are very ignorant about DRK. First off DRK does have mp and that cna lead to several advatages. Absorb TP means faster ws's, Drain I & II means longer life, Dread spikes means mild tanking, and endark means more dmg. Second we are the premier stunners as we are the only job with 2 native stuns. Finally you play DRK and war completely different.

I would never ever say to someone stop complaining and level this job instead because this game is about having fun and if you enjoy the job then your having fun. Now imagine if you enjoy the job but SE is constantly buffing everyone else's jobs to god level and not helping your? Then you'd be upset. Now you have war lvl 90 so obviously your not complaining because you have the mother of all broken jobs at level 90. The rest of us are rather upset at SE because they keep messing up the balance of the game.

I too have mnk lvl 90 and I enjoy playing mnk, however I enjoy PUP and DRK far more, and war just upsets me, even before abyssea getting it to 37 was very annoying. Still if someone was complaining about a job I would never tell them go level PUP or DRK because I like them more or go level mnk and war because they deal the most damage because thats not the issue, the issue is balance.

I get the feeling you think that absorb tp is worth casting when you are engaged. You should be getting that much tp anyway from normal swings, depending on caladbolg/scythe, the delay of actual spell and afterdelay leads to less tp. I mentioned stuns being the only thing different, and it still is. All 2 handers are just buff, swing, ws. Drk and drg are only different in jump and stun. Drains and spikes are only worth casting out of battle, along with endark.

So essentially people play the job of their choice for the aesthetics. Not the gameplay.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, you can keep playing DRK and DRG and SAM, but having the option of WAR just for abyssea, since its really nothing different, just much better, shouldn't be an insult. Everything is much more level outside anyway.

[Elexia]

Don’t fret dark knights! These example adjustments are just that…examples. It doesn’t mean that every single thing is going to be implemented as stated. All of your suggestions and opinions on these concepts will be relayed to the development team and they will of course consider them when actually creating the adjustments to be implemented. Just keep in mind that their concept of dark knight, same as in the past, is that they sacrifice something in return for something else.

Indeed. I'd so nuke you on my DRK but it would do no damage. As stated, it's mainly the fact it seems a lot of DRK adjustments are gravitating toward our elemental nature when no one harnesses said nature.

[Gotterdammerung]

What is wrong with all of you =/

You don't even know what the bonus in damage is yet.

yes typically more dmg is done thru WS's than thru melee swings. But this ability is supposed to spike your melee swings. They could very easily surpass WS damage. Especially when used in conjunction with drks newfound superhastability, souleater, high crit rate, and high crit dmg.

And as for a magic boost. Just because you like to play "your" drk like a warrior doesnt mean everyone feels that way. Again you don't even know what your booing at. In exchange for taking more damage per hit, you get an unknown bonus to casting damge and magic WS damage. It could be a million % boost, and you wouldn't know because you /panic boo'd b4 it even hit the ground. But Even at a moderate bonus it could still work wonders with drain II stacked with wat alredy exists. It could bring darks brew potential to competitive. It could be useful in situations where melee WS's don't cut it. And its quite possible drk could get tier IV's or something stronger by 99 and who knows what this skill could bring that potency up too. I don't see any pld's complaining about there recent magic dmg boost... i guess they like 4-7k holy's. Since when is versatility a bad thing? Oh yeh i forgot, since people decided the game should be mindless.

Did u know that with occult accumen gear and about 30 store tp you can get 100 tp return from casting impact? And theres several spots left over for fast cast gear and/or magacc. I know its an expensive casting but how many times have u wasted temp ethers. and elixers in abyssea? stop complaining about how worthless your casting abilities are and start owning them.

[Dauntless]

I never said don't play it, I never said everyone should be the same, I was asking a question.

The gameplay is NEARLY the same. DRG gets to jump, DRK gets to stun, while SAM and WAR are essentially the COMPLETE same. Seriously, just one does more damage and looks different. And while you should fight to fix your jobs, I don't see the need to not have all of them leveled just so you can be at the top for whatever SE brings your way. The only real difference between the jobs is 1. Damage output, and 2. aesthetics. They look different.

Did you wear Walahra Turban because it looked good?

I understand why people want a job to get better, I would love DRK to get better because I love the way it looks. Till then I'm playing WAR.

Now if you had spent 5 years obtaining a Mythic or Relic weapon, I can see why you could complain. However, 85% of the people complaining play casually and with Abyssea you can get the best gear in less than a day.

Question: What is it about WAR that could possibly make you sick? MNK I can understand because TP is so slow in comparison, but WAR? Doesn't make sense since you're literally doing the same thing as a DRK would do.

Alright, so your point is that even if we like the job, since it's been underdeveloped and nerfed we should simply play the popular job even if we don't like it?

I spent roughly 2 years getting DRK to 75 when I first started playing and a couple months getting WAR to 75 when ToAU came out. I know the ins and outs of DRK and it is in no way the same as WAR. At least, it wasn't designed to be.

Naturally less strong than Warriors, we use Dark Magic and sacrifice HP and defense to equip ourselves with strength far beyond that of the natural strength of Warriors for high spike numbers. We use absorb spells that significantly increases our damage for a short period of time. We have to use perfect timing to stun mobs with deadly TP moves. We were naturally weaker than Warriors, but we were versatile and able to dish out more spike damage at will.

Now? Absorb spells do nothing. Everything is resistant to Souleater. Dark Magic is easily resisted, and SE wants to throw elemental magic at us?

Perfect example: Warrior in Besieged in full AF3+2 was spamming Ukko's Fury for 4-6k. DRK also in full AF3+2 was using Quietus and I didn't see him hit anything higher than 3k. With Souleater. Why the hell is that fair?

My point is this: DD's in general used to be similar, and they all had their ups and downs. Some were better than others, but by no huge margin. Now it's war/mnk or gtfo, and I despise that.

[Francisco]

Just keep in mind that their concept of dark knight, same as in the past, is that they sacrifice something in return for something else.

Like sacrificing being a good DD in exchange for looking cool?

Sorry, had to go there.

[Leonlionheart]

My point is this: DD's in general used to be similar, and they all had their ups and downs. Some were better than others, but by no huge margin. Now it's war/mnk or gtfo, and I despise that.

I agree, it's not good that the game is that way. However there will ALWAYS be a better job, perfect balance is completely impossible. It's not SE's job to make everyone equal, but to make them unique in their role so much that they are desired, and that's where the problem is. WAR: top DD, no defense. MNK: powerful DD, high defense. PLD: No DD, top defense. DRK: hi guyz i have magic but am gonna play like a war anyway, and if you dare tell me to cast magic I WILL EAT YOUR BRAINS.

That's the issue: as long as DRK maximizes damage in the same way as WAR, DRG, and SAM, the jobs will completely blend in to each other and there will always be a clear winner. It was RNG, it was SAM, now it's WAR.

I think that SE realizes this, and that's why they are trying to bring both DRK and DRG in different directions (DRG into a more enmity control position, which would make it prime for tank and spank fights considering it's accuracy.)

I don't think SE is going about changing DRK in the right way though, and it's very difficult to see how to fix it. Although like I have suggested in the past I think an ability where DRK could swing during casting and not be dragged down by the delay after cast, then that would really make DRK's magical capabilities shine while keeping the DD side happy. (Animation wise the DRK could still look like he's casting and his/her weapon could fly like an animated weapon. Too grandiose? See: Retribution. So no telling me that's the drawback. )

[Dauntless]

I agree, it's not good that the game is that way. However there will ALWAYS be a better job, perfect balance is completely impossible. It's not SE's job to make everyone equal, but to make them unique in their role so much that they are desired, and that's where the problem is. WAR: top DD, no defense. MNK: powerful DD, high defense. PLD: No DD, top defense. DRK: hi guyz i have magic but am gonna play like a war anyway, and if you dare tell me to cast magic I WILL EAT YOUR BRAINS.

That's the issue: as long as DRK maximizes damage in the same way as WAR, DRG, and SAM, the jobs will completely blend in to each other and there will always be a clear winner. It was RNG, it was SAM, now it's WAR.

I think that SE realizes this, and that's why they are trying to bring both DRK and DRG in different directions (DRG into a more enmity control position, which would make it prime for tank and spank fights considering it's accuracy.)

I don't think SE is going about changing DRK in the right way though, and it's very difficult to see how to fix it. Although like I have suggested in the past I think an ability where DRK could swing during casting and not be dragged down by the delay after cast, then that would really make DRK's magical capabilities shine while keeping the DD side happy.

It's not that we don't like to cast magic. It's that our elemental magic isn't worth the time nor mp and the dark magic is ineffective and easily resisted.

Give us some effective magic and we sure as hell will use it. It's not that we want to play like warriors, it's that any other style of playing is inefficient since our casting side is horribly lacking.

When I played DRK, the absorbs and drains were worth using. Now? Not at all. Not even close.

The Absorb spells either need a buff or an Absorb II series that doesn't decay and gives a larger boost. Also, seeing as we're the first job to get most dark magic spells, I wouldn't see it too farfetched for us to get Bio III. Buffing drain or giving us a 3rd drain would be welcome because the drains have become mostly ineffective.

I would also LOVE to see a spell that converts a mobs HP to your MP. Like Aspir, but instead of draining MP it drains HP. Due to the lack of mobs actually having MP, aspir is often ineffective. With this spell, you could drain MP on any mob. I don't see any way this could be broken.

As well as this, making Dread Spikes weaker, lengthening it's effect, and lowering its casting time would be lovely because as is, it's to be casted before a fight and it lasts for a few seconds then you're not to use it again until the next fight thanks to the long casting time preventing you from having any hopes of recasting it during a fight.

These are just some magic related suggestions off the top of my head. Notice how they're all oriented towards dark magic. That's because we're DARK KNIGHTS. Dark Magic is our forte, and we're lacking in it. I don't want more elemental magic, I need Dark magic. I'm fairly certain most DRKs will agree.

Edit: Being able to swing during casting would be welcome. It's a great idea.

[Gotterdammerung]

Swing during casting for darks. More than reasonable fix.

[Dauntless]

We get Drain 1 at level 10. Why shouldn't we get at least Drain 3 by level 99?

[Malamasala]

Swing during casting for darks. More than reasonable fix.

Yea, it always amazes me how SE can overlook that simple solution.

It is also the reason I claim SMN is better designed for melee than DRK is. You trigger a BP, which is an instant JA, then you keep on swinging. If SMN and DRK shared stats and weapons, but differed in magic, SMN would come out top. DRK would benefit greatly from not being stuck in casting animation.