Ther case for -Prep as related to gear ect

[Neonii]

I feel that every topic on smn forums get taken over by the argument about gear and minus prep. This subject takes over ever topic and the same arguments get re-hashed to the point of overkill. Once the topics are derailed the -prep talk goes on for pages and pages. As a player who has already read those arguments I'm making a topic to address this here. For the sake of my sanity please have your arguments here and allow us with other interest to keep our topics on subject.

[Razushu]

Quoted from here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post143878 to hopefully prevent further derailment

Yes, that Perp set required a Magain staff. without any staff, I would still be gaining 1mp/tick with a normal avatar out. My perp set (for Garuda) is as follows:
Magian+2/Vox Grip/H.Bomb
Caller's Horn+2/Caller's Pendant/Aug'd Ruby Earring/Moonshade
Caller's Doublet +2/Caller's Bracers +2/Evoker's Ring/Fervor Ring
Astute Cape/Caller's Sash/Stearc Subligar/Caller's Pigaches +2
Note: Nashira Gages aren't needed since I'm capping Perp anyway.

Now, despite the fact that I don't pay anywhere near enough attention to those forums, I'll add my 2 cents on the Hvergelmir discussion. Yes, I have one.
With a decent Myrkr build outside Abyssea, I'll gain around 400 mp from Myrkr. In a situation where it is feasible to melee, it is by far more MP efficient then Magians staves, since my MP pool won't drop below 1000, even if I buff with my avatar as well. However, of course most situations (say Endgame or kited kills) it would be unfeasible to melee. With a Magian staff and the above set, my MP efficiency is decent, however I would eventually run out of MP, even with Refresh and Convert.

How long does it take you to run out of MP or are you only just assuming you would? I only get +2 per tick back with Garuda and I can't use up all my MP. I get the guts of 900MP back every 5 minutes from gear refresh, sublimation and elemental siphon after I negate perp cost.

[Korpg]

MP is not an issue anymore, even if you are a melee SMN assuming that you have the emp staff.

Even killing NMs outside of Abyssea, my MP never goes below half. That is without Elemental Siphon.

The difference between a melee SMN and a regular SMN is risk. You have to ask yourself if the risk of killing XX mob faster is worth it or plausable (depending on the NM, melee-SMNs can't win while the regular SMN doesn't even break a sweat).

[Arciel]

With a perp negating gear set that can give you 2+ refresh/tic, it becomes a lot harder to run out of MP, but this also depends on various factors..

1) rate at which you rage BP.
2) rate at which you ward BP.
3) whether you siphon whenever given the opportunity
4) how often you use mana cede

The more often you do 1, 2 & 4, and the less often you do 3, the higher the strain you put on your MP pool.
Done well, this should not be much of an issue, but would likely still lead to MP issues if you're doing non-stop battles. In other words, the drain is only felt in the long run. This is assuming you're not getting non-gear sources of refresh from other players or /rdm. If you're using /rdm then this shouldnt be a problem at all.

edit: This said, players should be mindful not to overgear on perp cost reduction, because theres so much of it now.

Remember that at lv90, the maximum perp cost reduction (not factoring in refresh) you can ever make use of is 9 / 11 / 13 / 18 (carby / fenrir / celestial / spirits) and most people don't care about spirits.. so the usual number is 13. If you already have that, switch to refresh gear. and if you can go with the same amount of refresh in the same slot.. that would be more beneficial

[Razushu]

With a perp negating gear set that can give you 2+ refresh/tic, it becomes a lot harder to run out of MP, but this also depends on various factors..

1) rate at which you rage BP.
2) rate at which you ward BP.
3) whether you siphon whenever given the opportunity
4) how often you use mana cede

The more often you do 1, 2 & 4, and the less often you do 3, the higher the strain you put on your MP pool.
Done well, this should not be much of an issue, but would likely still lead to MP issues if you're doing non-stop battles. In other words, the drain is only felt in the long run. This is assuming you're not getting non-gear sources of refresh from other players or /rdm. If you're using /rdm then this shouldnt be a problem at all.

edit: This said, players should be mindful not to overgear on perp cost reduction, because theres so much of it now.

Remember that at lv90, the maximum perp cost reduction (not factoring in refresh) you can ever make use of is 9 / 11 / 13 / 18 (carby / fenrir / celestial / spirits) and most people don't care about spirits.. so the usual number is 13. If you already have that, switch to refresh gear. and if you can go with the same amount of refresh in the same slot.. that would be more beneficial

Siphon including bringing out your avatar again takes at most 20 secs every 5 minutes, so unless it's a really busy day your having on SMN 1,2 & 4 shouldn't really effect 3

[Korpg]

Siphon including bringing out your avatar again takes at most 20 secs every 5 minutes, so unless it's a really busy day your having on SMN 1,2 & 4 shouldn't really effect 3

Except kite fights though. You would have to run almost triple distance from usual if you need to siphon

[Razushu]

Except kite fights though. You would have to run almost triple distance from usual if you need to siphon

Thats exactly what I do, if I even need to siphon in a kite fight anymore. I think last time I did this was against the Lizard Trap NM in Aydeewa Subterrane at 75 cap or something like that.

[Inafking]

Including AF3 and magain staffs, they have added a lot of gear for this. So it's clear Square's position is, "The gear is out there. Now go level something else and work for it, bitch!!"

[Dallas]

AF2 body is a far superior full-time gear than AF3. For melee, Goliard is far superior to AF3.

You all wear AF3 body, therefor you all have serious MP issues. The other stats on AF3 body are macro only.

Useless thread. I'm not returning, as there is nothing to be gained by mastering "stack -perp." I'm sure Arciel will be glad to share with everyone how pimp KI SMN were with their "stack hmp" build. Doing jack is an art form. Argue amonst yourselves.

[Razushu]

AF2 body is a far superior full-time gear than AF3. For melee, Goliard is far superior to AF3.

You all wear AF3 body, therefor you all have serious MP issues. The other stats on AF3 body are macro only.

Useless thread. I'm not returning, as there is nothing to be gained by mastering "stack -perp." I'm sure Arciel will be glad to share with everyone how pimp KI SMN were with their "stack hmp" build. Doing jack is an art form. Argue amonst yourselves.

Good you're a gimp melee troll. IIRC you said you don't even have Goliard, not that it's of any use but lol worthy melee though. I think you'll find there's longevity to be gained from a -perp set, without the constant need for raises too. Nobody does jack except leecher's in this game( and I'd call a fake melee constantly weakened a leech here). If you can at all use SMN you're just as busy as everyone else in the party. Your SMN is useful 1/10th of the time and none of its the big stuff at that mainly exp mobs, my SMN can find a use just about anywhere.