Why are we advertized as fighter-mages when White Mages can out-do us?

[Hyrist]

Hyrist, are the same Red Mage that used to be on midgardsomr?

Dale? Is that really you!? Could have swore you quit for good man.

But yep, it's me! There's only one Hyrist! I moved to Odin a long while back, spend some time in Herberus but Odin seems to be where I settled for now. I've got friends kinda keeping me around here.

Lots has happened, shoot me a PM sometime.

Also, side-note. I just hit 22 consistent damage regardless of day/time so yeah that cap isn't there anymore Sword.

[Hyrist]

Ok. So the brainstorming has finally born some fruit by combining some ideas together from some of our recent updates.

Ability name:
Prise de Fer
[definition](French : Literally take the steel); also “Taking the Blade”; an engagement of the blades that attempts to control the opponent's weapon. See also beat, press, expulsion, bind, croisé, envelopment, opposition, transfer.
Alternate Names: Duelist, Opposition.

JA 'Stance' type:

Increases Enhancement Spell damage and inflicts: 'Hesitation' upon enemy while striking with an enspell active.

Hesitation (Status effect): Hesitation is a stacking status effect that reduces monster TP gain from both normal attacks an incoming attacks. Additionally, when a Monster Uses a "TP Attack" Hesitation adds a delay to the TP attack's usage based on how many stacks of the status is on the target. Hesitation wears off in 20 seconds or when the target uses a TP attack. Duration is refreshed if struck by a Red Mage under the effect of Prise de Fer.

-----------------------------------------------------

I'm keeping the actual raw numbers of this flexible, as I'm unsure as to what DEGREE of this would be deemed most acceptable.

As far as Prise de Fer's Enspell damage increase, I'd say 'doubles' but comes at the cost of loss of something on our mage side. Not certain what, however, maybe magical attack. Trade off our nuke numbers for enspell numbers.

With Hesitation, at absolute maximum I'd like to think that the status effect can stack anywhere between 5-10 times, and that each stack adds 1-.5 seconds to a TP move, per. Meaning, on top of a TP gain reduction (which I would say on the level of Auspice for gain reduction.) a fully stacked Hesitation would had a flat 5 seconds to the enemy TP attack delay. Again, at maximum. It would still be incredibly useful, especially in situations that the tank was crit right before the monster readies a TP move, and gives other players the chance to swap on their defense gears or run out of range.

And the fact that some mobs flatly spam TP moves regardless keeps this move from becoming broken, as the stacks would wear off each time the enemy uses a TP move.

[Supersun]

Adding a delay to a monsters TP attack just seems to be asking for stun abuse though. It had the potential to make what used to be nightmarish fights into complete jokes.

[Hyrist]

... and?

This has happened progressively as new levels and abilities came into the works anyways. This would be no different.

Besides, push comes to shove, have some mobs resistant or flat out immune, like every other debuff in existance. NM's only get a 2.5 second delay or some such. (Or just be immune to stun, like a lot of NMs are.)

Besides, you've already got CSS, Stun rotations, Alexander rotations and all the other would be abuses in this game that are far more dangerous.

This one is easily adjusted for.

[Supersun]

Besides, push comes to shove, have some mobs resistant or flat out immune

This is mostly what I'm worried about. What's the point in adding this super awesome buff if they are just going to make everything worthwhile immune to it.

I'm not saying that this isn't impossible to add, but this is just one of those things that would need to be looked at very carefully first.

[Hyrist]

I think that is a fair assumption of any ability, however.

Something that can just be implemented as is would likely be too minor of a change to make any impact on the job, or the stigma surrounding it.

While this can be something that specific NMS (think end bosses) could be resistant or in rare cases, immune. I think the majority of the foes, from fodder up until 'tier 2/3' nms should still be able to have this benefit in some way shape or form.

Nor do I think this is the only change that should happen to RDM. But having double enspell damage would make the ability useful against fodder, even if it is on Enspell IIs (Which would double the totals at the end of the calculation not the beginning.) And the effect of Hesitation would be useful against the more tricky enemies.

On top of this, if it was implemented as is, I'd see EX weapon skills freed up, more accessible haste gear, and further improvements on the gear we do have available.

And for Altana's sake, fix Enspell II calculations!

[Seriha]

Eh, adding 1s to ready timers without any convoluted building system would be enough. It'd take a sting out of a lot of the instant moves with attentive stunners, while the direct TP manipulation should at least offset the RDM's presence so there's a net gain of damage and utility. No need to introduce immunities, as it just shoehorns the concept away. I'd be okay with converting MATK gained from the traits to Enspell damage, as it'd also leave the back-liners with a bit of an edge while we'd still have the option to MB or free nuke if we chose to. Whether the MATK conversion is 1:1, I dunno. Hell, I wouldn't even mind a STP element to it so we could feasibly drop DB more often, though DB's utility angle still needs some work of its own.

[Hyrist]

Eh, adding 1s to ready timers without any convoluted building system would be enough. It'd take a sting out of a lot of the instant moves with attentive stunners, while the direct TP manipulation should at least offset the RDM's presence so there's a net gain of damage and utility.

Adding 1 second or less to the timer makes the ability's utility moot on anything that builds stun resistance quickly or is flat out stun immune. The building mechanic for increase potency is a carrot to keep the RDM there, especially in cases in which a Mob's attack could potentially 1, shot the tank. I'd say bare minimum, 1.5 seconds, if not 2.

As far as the TP manipulation mechanic, RDM meleeing alone would not be enough to offset the RDM meleeing. But the more who were meleeing, the more it would be offset (flat rate per person.)

Though, you bring up an interesting thing, a flat rate loss of M.Attack for a flat gain in Enspell damage. 1 MAtk lost, 1 bonus enspell damage. Problem is, when that gets to be +20 enspell damage, just how much have we lost from our nukes? I'd rather let the developers mull over the conversion rate on that one.

As far as DB's utility... honestly, there's nothing wrong there, if you see it's purpose being a near-universal opener. Maybe change TP mod to crit chance and give that Status Effect a flat rate of landing. But beyond that there's not much you can do to that WS.

[Mageoholic]

It's more referring to the fact that they made the job trait "Fencer" and distinctly refused to give it to us.

Fencer isn't that overly good anyway. The amount of DoT we lose from droping a multihit (or DA weapon in abby) is way more than what fencer gives. Since it requires to be single wielded it is inferior. If we are single wielding we would likely be /WAR as the only practical reason to SW is /WAR in aby for access to EX Sword Club Staff procs anyway.

(or as /BLU in melee blood solo's which is slower, yet more fun than /nin melee blink solos).

As far as the WHM vs RDM thing, WHM is at the moment better equipped to DD then us because they have Clubs that are proportionate to level, where as RDM missed on all the magian daggers, and currently must have a Twilight Knife to see the best results. (or CDC but lets avoid using that as a basis requirement.) Outside of abyssea where RDM can get access to its Enspells for maximum effect (yes in abby they are still maximum but drop from like 20% of total damage to <5%). Enspells 1 can be pushed to 35 relatively easy and with enhancing magic sky rocketing over the last 15 levels, and the ability to dump 8/8 to enhancing merits as well the ACC holds pretty steady around 85-90%. That is a lot of extra damage when you consider the possibility of nearly 3 attacks /round essetially its a full time berserk (that does not apply on WS unfortunately).

RDM outside of abyssea is pretty solid DD when geared right, inside of abyssea its melee issues are just another factor in the laundry list of problems with the job and the unfriendly relationship it has with abyssea.

[Ketaru]

RDM outside of abyssea is pretty solid DD when geared right, inside of abyssea its melee issues are just another factor in the laundry list of problems with the job and the unfriendly relationship it has with abyssea.

Yes and No. It all depends on whether you're considering the maximum potentials of jobs (something most people will never reach) and the company you actually tend to keep in pickup EXP groups (the NBs of the world...I'll leave it to you readers to figure out who NB is). As much of a blessing it is for parties to have become more inclusive, it is also kind of a pity an entire alliance of 18 people can be carried by perhaps 3 or 4 skilled players.

RDM actually did get kind of lucky with the way Atmas ended up favoring critical hit weaponskills because RDM does get access to 2 very good ones (Evisceration and Chant du Cygne). It just, unfortunately, requires more annoying gear to get than your standard damage dealer's weapons. But who knows? Some people might actually get lucky. I got Twilight Knife on my 3rd time solo brewing Shinryu.

Almost anybody can be an MVP in Abyssea. In a way, your accomplishments in Abyssea are more important than what your actual job is.