Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Alhanelem]

Except all the relics aren't designed to damage?

Duh? this is a specific reference to relic WEAPONS? not relic SHIELDS or relic INSTRUMENTs? PLD and BRD, respectively, both have relic and empyrean WEAPONS, in addition to those other things.

SE had a vision and it failed utterly with mage relics.

The only visions for the relic weapons and empy weapons were:
1) special exclusive weapon skills
2) strongest damage-dealing weapon of that weapon-class.

It didn't necessairly succeed on #2 for all weapons, but you can tell thats what the intention was.

Devs designed the mage classes, know the gear/skill limitations set that make it impractical to melee on anything worthwhile (worse when these weapons were released) and still decided to release ultimate mage weapons designed to be used in melee combat.

They also release ultimate mage weapons that were designed to enhance abilities instead. These are called the mythic weapons. If you want an ultimate weapon slot item that does that kind of thing, get a mythic. Nothing is stopping you besides the difficulty.

I don't really have a problem with ADDITIONAL stats, and it's entirely possible that level 95 and 99 tiers will add special stats (though i doubt it, honestly). But I DO have a problem with going for a weapon because of the effects it has now, and then them transforming it into something totally different. Even if I want the resulting product, that doesn't mean I don't still want the thing I had before, because they have two completely different purposes.

There is NOTHING WRONG with having two effing damage-oriented staff-class weapons in the game. They will undoubtedly add another superweapon set in the future, and it will probably be ability-centric instead of weapon centric.

It is clear that SE simply didn't want to bother taking the extra step to make the mage weapons mage-oriented so they simply lazily slapped acc/att on the weapons and called it a day.

It's not about laziness. Frankly, I think DDs would feel cheated if we got both the exclusive WS that every other empy weapon has, and then added something more on top of that (new spell, more stats, whatever) without any of the others getting that kind of a buff. But if you just added something like this to all the weapons, on the other hand, then some of the DD weapons would be too ridiculously good and the staves would still be behind the other weapons in functionality, effectively.

There is no reasonable, fair solution to this other than add additional features to all weapons in future trials.

The RNG relics help me control hate better.
The PLD shield helps me stay alive longer.
The BRD horn helps make my songs more potent.
The scythe gives DRK survival options otherwise non-existant.

BRD: Not a weapon. Talk about the relic dagger instead. This is an apples to oranges comparison.
PLD: Not a weapon. Talk about the relic Sword or Great Sword instead. This is an apples to oranges comparison.
DRK: You got me there, but this is no longer an effect that's exclusive to DRK. Sanguine Blade would like a word with you, and that's not even a relic WS.
RNG relic doesn't help you control hate better; if you're talking about the aftermath, then, well, Gate of Tartarus helps you get MP back better. So what? All of the relic WS have an aftermath or effect that synergizes with the job.

[Greatguardian]

Uh, Namas Arrow and Coronach are notoriously "Hate-free" WS. You control hate by being able to spam the hell out of those WS without being in danger of having your face handed to you like every other RNG in the game does.

Wildfire is the same way.

[Alhanelem]

Ah, OK. well Every relic WS has some kind of special effect, either as the aftermath or built into the WS. The point is, they don't directly enhance any other ability or trait like the Mythic weapons do, and none of them have job-specific effects, other than certain weapons only being usable by one job (while others are usable by more than one).

As I've said before, I'd be all in favor of adding extra stats on 95/99 trials. But they can't really be job-specific because the weapons are not job specific. There is one weapon for each weapon class, not for each job.

[Byrth]

I don't know, if I was going to remake the relic weapons I think I'd . . . write a thread about it. If I think "mage relic," the Claustrum I describe is what I'm thinking of.

It's rainbow staff, but it's enough better than rainbow staff that I would have gone for it without a second doubt back when I was mage-main.

[Alhanelem]

Feel free to suggest a new set of ultimate weapons. Adding special mage effects to the existing ones is unfair to all the other weapons (if stuff isn't added to them as well), and transforming them into something different isn't fair to anyone who obtained one with the understanding that these weapons do what they say they do now.

[Byrth]

You know, I have a 90 Empyrean (soon will have 2) from one of the hardest paths (Twashtar and Ukon, 269/350 items collected), and if they made the Relic equivalents superior in the next patch, I wouldn't say shit. Everyone who has an Empyrean should realize they're getting cut a break. I can't really sympathize with someone who does second-class work and cries about ending up with a second-class weapon, even if that person is me!

I don't think making Relics more powerful/different would destroy game balance or ruin the effort people put into their weapons, and I doubt any relic owners would have legitimate concerns with the suggestions I proposed. Plus, I go out of my way in that thread to maintain some balance between the big-3.

[Alhanelem]

Everyone who has an Empyrean should realize they're getting cut a break.

No argument there.

One thing's always bugged me though. The Relic weapons ALWAYS have a chance to do multiplied damage. Are people considering this when they compare empy weapons and relics and say the empys are better?

[Dallas]

When Amano was created, it was the best GKT in the game. When Claustrum was created, it was immediately inferior to an AH option in any condition that did not ask the BLM or SMN to melee.

Let's not pretend that Claustrum was ever "discussed." There are much more believable lies out there.

[Karbuncle]

If you wanna hear something funnier about Claustrum, At level 75, Primate Staff+1 under its Latent had a better DPS Value than Claustrum.

Its clear the Relic Staff was meant for Melee purposes, why? Probably because SE didn't expect Mages to stand back in every single fight. Obviously some fights were meant to keep mages backline, But I'm sure they had "visioned" Mages fighting by melee in very select fights.

Of course not every situation... And why anyone would go to such lengths for a Relic Staff is beyond me, but its intentions were clear, a heavy-hitting weapon that offered a way for Mages to melee and to an extent not worry about MP (Its aftermath).

The problem being, obviously, Elemental Staves increasing Nuke Potency/Accuracy, that and a Mages awful over-all DPS and Accuracy.

Rather its logical or not, the vision was clear. They expected mages to melee with these weapons, thats why on Claustrum, The aftermath gave you a heavy Refresh (better than anything possible back at 75 when it was released), and the Empyrean staff recovers a large portion of your MP, and (I think?) removes some debuffs (maybe something you're hit with meleeing!?)

Its was a rather unsuccessful vision due to the nature of weapons like Elemental Staves and now the Magian Staves. Still, One would have to wonder in some fights back at 75 would Meleeing for TP and recovering your MP Through Claustrum refresh have been better than Nuking > Healing MP > nuking? the answer is Probably not, Terrible Accuracy/damage, etc.

If SMN or BLM had an ~A ranking in staff and a bit better DD gear it might not have been so far fetched.

Oh well, Don't wanna go too far into a Claustrum Debate, God forbid i tread that territory.

Edit: The above statement is mostly in terms for BLM, SMN is another Story, as their only other marketable skill outside of Avatars is picking their nose and and tossing a cure or na.

[Dallas]

Its was a rather unsuccessful vision due to the nature of weapons like Elemental Staves and now the Magian Staves.

My avatars are free without any weapon. What situation makes those Magian staves worth anything?