Can we have a Light Spirit adjustment soon?

[Kensagaku]

Let's not fight about this, it's not necessary. You are being a bit overdefensive, though people are still stuck in the lolpup mindset. Anyway. I don't think Spirits need much an upgrade, really. They've got their advantages too as it is.

For one, to be able to summon a pet to take hate off of you from aggro or a mob that you're kiting in maybe a second is useful. SMNs should have low-to-no hate from using just BPs (Is it so hard to macro in a bit of emnity- gear in the non-BP Delay- slots at the start of a BP?) so 1-2 hits and now they're smacking a spirit, giving said SMN time to get enough distance and summon a real avatar to do damage. Saved my rear end more than once.

For another, the fact is that they're great for suddenly giving your MP a huge jumpstart. I personally, with gear that's still a WIP, get ~450 MP on average from one Siphon. That's a huge boost to get instantly, and even every five minutes that's still very useful.

I don't disagree that I wish the AI was smarter, especially on the healing. My Light Spirit seems to favor Haste for god knows what reason. Sitting there waiting for a Pro/Shell IV, I get a Haste, and then a Regen. By the time I get my buffs I've spent more MP than a WHM or RDM casting the spells on me first. However, I don't think it needs as much of an overhaul as you make it out to be. Honestly, I don't think Spirits need to be used much period, or at all. I'd honestly rather Elemental Siphon took from an Avatar than a spirit that gets no use.

As someone said, it's not worth making trash less trashy but still trash when you can give them an improvement.

[Leonlionheart]

The people attacking perfectly reasonable jobs need to stop doing it. Then I won't have anything to defend.

PUP isn't LOL anymore, and most people have realized that, but obviously a few still haven't.

PUP isn't LOL, when you have Verethragna. At that point it's just another TP burn job that can utilize it's pet's TP too.

Still doesn't even compare with MNK WAR NIN though, considering Impetus makes VS almost twice as good. Although with Verethragna it can compare with DRK SAM RNG BST in abyssea I suppose.

If you don't have Vere, it's still pretty LOL. Not as much as it used to be since the skill update, but... Is it better than WAR? no. MNK? no. NIN? no. SAM? no. DRK? no. BLU? no. DNC? no. THF? no. DRG? no. How does that not make it LOL in terms of DD? Coolbeans though for other reasons than simple DD, but hybrid jobs just don't get the job done like dedicated ones do.

[Malamasala]

For one, to be able to summon a pet to take hate off of you from aggro or a mob that you're kiting in maybe a second is useful. SMNs should have low-to-no hate from using just BPs (Is it so hard to macro in a bit of emnity- gear in the non-BP Delay- slots at the start of a BP?) so 1-2 hits and now they're smacking a spirit, giving said SMN time to get enough distance and summon a real avatar to do damage. Saved my rear end more than once.

Well, it is both pro and con all over spirits. While I admit to using it for killing the NM chigoe, I must also say that each time I did lose my avatar to a well placed firega III early, I was so worried my spirit would cause the chigoe to lose hate and walk back.

But I must also say that is the only time I've used spirits (outside of fun) the last 5 years. I don't need them to protect me from aggro, I have carbuncle guarding me on travels.

[Malamasala]

Spirits don't need attention. They need to be ignored so that summoner will get updates that make them better instead of updates that make something crappy less crappy.

Your way of thinking is flawed.

I think wards are crappy as is... so thinking like you, I'd say "don't work on wards, they suck".
I think most rages except predator claws and heavenly strike are borderline useless... so SE shouldn't work on rage pacts.
I think spirits are worthless... so they shouldn't work on spirits.
I think our melee abilities are subpar... so they shouldn't give us any melee abilities.

Overall, your attitude says that SE shouldn't do anything, except make predator claws and heavenly strike god mode and do massive damage so the job gets better, while only enhancing what is good with it.

I'm sure you don't mean that, but that is exactly what you said. Don't update anything that isn't used by everyone in every merit and HNM party.

[Malamasala]

I don't understand why so many ppl give a damn about spirits. At best they were a scapegoat if you need to quickly cast something to get out of agro in dunes...

I mean it's not like other jobs don't get fairly useless spells/abilities.
WAR-Defender (we even get merits for it!)
MNK-Footwork
BLM-Escape
WHM-Cura(come on, who really uses this reliably?)
PUP-PUP
etc, etc, etc.

Why do SMNs think they are so special all of a sudden that their useless stuff needs fixed instead of everyone elses D:

You are listing individual JAs and Traits and comparing it to having 8 pets with 5+ spells each as useless? You need to compare to some job that has 40 useless things.

Examples:

WAR - They can use all weapons, but only G Axe is worth using for damage.
DRK - They have a full list of elemental nukes, but don't use these. Also absorb line spells.

And I also must point out that I've never said any other job, like WAR, can't sit and complain that the only weapon they use is G.Axe and they'd want Sword and Axe and Club to be stronger. You can go make threads about that if you want to.

There are some jobs that are misunderstood to have a lot of useless things though.

BLM - Has a ton of spells that are useless.

WRONG. It has tier based spells. The useless ones are just outdated in general. You can't expect Stone I to rock so hard (pun intended) at 90 that you don't need any other spells.

BRD - Has a ton of songs that are useless.

WRONG. You are limited to two songs, that is why you have a lot of unused ones. You can't say you'd never use paeon if you had 100 songs active. Look at WHM and you'll see them toss up barparalyze and such, because it doesn't take a "buff slot" for them. The songs themselves are good, the system might be a bit less designed for them.

And even here I won't stalk people and claim they can not ask for BRD to have 2 offensive buffs and 2 defensive buffs on each player. Go ahead and make the threads if you want to use more songs.

Sometimes it feels like people seek my approval to complain about things they think is unfair, just because I complain about my things.

[DebbieGibson]

I wish SE would come down harder on thread creation. An official suggestion thread would be nice to have.

[Korpg]

Your way of thinking is flawed.

Because he doesn't think like you?

[Korpg]

You are listing individual JAs and Traits and comparing it to having 8 pets with 5+ spells each as useless? You need to compare to some job that has 40 useless things.

Examples:

WAR - They can use all weapons, but only G Axe is worth using for damage.
DRK - They have a full list of elemental nukes, but don't use these. Also absorb line spells.

And I also must point out that I've never said any other job, like WAR, can't sit and complain that the only weapon they use is G.Axe and they'd want Sword and Axe and Club to be stronger. You can go make threads about that if you want to.

There are some jobs that are misunderstood to have a lot of useless things though.

BLM - Has a ton of spells that are useless.

WRONG. It has tier based spells. The useless ones are just outdated in general. You can't expect Stone I to rock so hard (pun intended) at 90 that you don't need any other spells.

BRD - Has a ton of songs that are useless.

WRONG. You are limited to two songs, that is why you have a lot of unused ones. You can't say you'd never use paeon if you had 100 songs active. Look at WHM and you'll see them toss up barparalyze and such, because it doesn't take a "buff slot" for them. The songs themselves are good, the system might be a bit less designed for them.

And even here I won't stalk people and claim they can not ask for BRD to have 2 offensive buffs and 2 defensive buffs on each player. Go ahead and make the threads if you want to use more songs.

Sometimes it feels like people seek my approval to complain about things they think is unfair, just because I complain about my things.

WAR- Has ~66% of all possible red procs (possibly more, I didn't divide by the number of WAR red procs by total procs) and ~60% of all possible blue procs (if you include them all) Plus, what self-respecting WAR wouldn't use the weapon it has the greatest skill at?
DRK- Just because it has MP doesn't mean it needs it. Drain/Drain II/Aspir/Stun are a DRK's best spells. Explain why they would need to nuke in T3 spells that doesn't do more than 500 damage on a well geared RDM? (who, btw, has MAB trait)

BLM-My Stone I does ~650 damage, what does your Stone I do?

BRD-They do have a lot of useless songs, but can still be useful in certain situations. Any good BRD isn't limited to 2 songs anyway. Any great BRD can have 3 songs on one person.

And I don't know of anyone who seeks your approval in anything.

[dzero]

I think if spirits stay how they are and have no role in the job, then either sell them cheap from an NPC or make them castable from level 1 without having to get them from some BCNM etc. Then at least they'll be presented in a way where they are the basic things a summoner has before avatars.

Right now if a new player chooses summoner to be their first main then by the time they get all their spirits they'll have better summons in the form of avatars which make spirits near-obsolete. It's a little backwards. And yes players can start SMN with all avatars, but that hierarchy is still not there. Spirits just don't fit in anywhere in the job.

If spirits are going to be bad, at least present them in a way where they're supposed to be bad...

(Or lower their perpetuation cost perhaps...?)

EDIT: This thing about elemental syphon... Having a JA which requires you to summon a useless pet which you're only going to dismiss straight away anyway is a bit of a disjointed concept regardless of whether the MP boost is handy. Make a system that works, don't just throw some nifty JA in. It looks tacky.

[Alhanelem]

PUP isn't LOL, when you have Verethragna.

<insert job here> isn't LOL when you have <insert empyrean weapon here>.

PUP doesn't have to have an empyrean weapon any more than any other job does.