[DEVS] Briarius Helms, sobek Skins and various other Abyssea NM drops

[Bumbeen]

Friendly reminder: putting [DEVS] in your post doesn't do anything to get attention. Everything gets read, and if anything, tagging topics like that is a hinderance to getting the attention you're looking for.

Didn't you prove this to be incorrect by making a thread that says [to the players] and it got way more views than anything else?

[Alhanelem]

And yet for the last few days it's actually WORKED whenever I glanced in the forums.

It didn't work, they would have read the threads anyway. Just because a staff member posted in your thread, it doesn't mean they did because you put [DEVS] in it.

I have gotten staff responses to threads, and I didn't need to shout out to the staff.

[Sparthos]

I would agree that there is no need for the ability to buy Empyrean items.

While I do believe that if someone wants to buy their way out of playing (in game, not RMT), let them, as they are only hurting themselves... I concede that it is an excellent point that the players selling these weapons will be clogging up the works as bad, if not worse, than the players earning them on their own.

All of that said, I do think this trials were very lazily designed - and I wish they had been designed differently.

Following is a bit of a digression, regarding the last point above, so if you want to stick to the OPs topic, you can skip the rest of this. /grin

I, personally, think that the 3x??? they added to the NMs did wonders for clearing up congestion - so there is really no reason to worry about getting the helms/skins/etc. I think what is more frustrating is the congestion at the KI NMs you need to get the pirmary target to spawn. Converting timed spawns to force-pops, as well as making all KI NMs have multiple ???s would pretty much clean up any issues with groups getting their claim. They would still have to fight and earn their items like anyone else, there would just be less irritation leading up to the fights.

That said, I also agree with the notion that 50/75 items is excessive. I do not want the weapons to be handed over, but there could have been a MUCH better way of handling this than this level of NM spamming - it is just tedious and boring. Perhaps if it had been 1 item from 10 different NMs that were not 100% drop rates, or something, this would make it less tedious and still be as challenging - as well as clearing up the congestion issues that some are having. Or perhaps a wider variety of NMs in limited number, like the the trials leading up to the final three Aby-NMs.

For example, instead of ending with Briareus Helms x50, Sobek Skins x50 and Apademak Horns x75, why couldn't the trials for Almace read something more like:
Trial 12xx: Pantagruel x5
Trial 12xx: Adamastor x5
Trial 12xx: Grandgousier x5
Trial 12xx: Briareus x5
Trial 19xx: Minax Bugard x5
Trial 19xx: Sirrush x5
Trial 19xx: Gukumatz x5
Trial 19xx: Sobek x5
Trial 23xx: Sisyphus x8
Trial 23xx: Upas-Kamuy x8
Trial 23xx: Dhorme Khimaira x8
Trial 23xx: Apademak x8
Trial 99xx: Caturae x6 (family style, like elemental trials)
Trial 99xx: Shinryu x1

Yes, this is a lot of trials, and the leg-work of running back to Jeuno would be there, but there would be variation, a more flowing sense of advancement, a sensible progression, and a culmination in soaking your new awesome weapon in the blood of Abyssea's elite enemies.

79 kills. Yes, it is less than a hypothetical average of (50+50+75)/1.5 (a totally arbitrary average of 1-2 drops per), that is to say 116~ kills; but the spread is less boring, and it is a little harder than joining an exp party to leech TEs and then spamming the same NM a billion times.

It is not a perfect suggestion, and I am not trying to put SE down either, I just wish these quests were designed with less "monotony=difficulty" in mind.

I have no delusions about what is in existance changing, but I really hope that SE doesn't just extend this precedent out for future Empyrean Weapon upgrades. From 91-95, and then 96-99, x100 Founcypants Garters, x100 Ladderclimber Larry Gloves and x200 Jedi Lightsabers will be a serious disappointment...

Honestly the trials are set up fine and encourage people to take a very casual approach to obtaining the items to obtain an Empyrean weapon as-is. It may be boring but so was getting a Relic or Mythic - repetition does that.

In your example Gukumatz would become an intense bottleneck and the rest of the trials would be steamrolled in a matter of days. You'd see people getting 18man groups for Emp credit and the system would be even more aflow with Emps than it already is atm. If people on these boards thought EXP leeching was bad, the thought of Empyrean leeching would shake the heavens.

The only trials that need an immediate fix is the aforementioned colorless souls simply because you cannot log in and make progress simply by capping azure/amber and getting KIs from a box.

SE has already stated they will not fix the single T2 VNMs in Heroes zones that lead to the T3s that drop souls because balance between harp/shield and the rest stems from the former having no previous NM camp trials however it is clear they haven't compared the number of hours on average eaten up on pre-Abyssean TOTM trials to getting 75 colorless souls.

As of right now - anyone can get an Empyrean weapon. I don't care if you have 4hours a week or 40, anyone can get a weapon. SE has already made it as easy as humanly possible.

[Khajit]

It didn't work, they would have read the threads anyway. Just because a staff member posted in your thread, it doesn't mean they did because you put [DEVS] in it.

I have gotten staff responses to threads, and I didn't need to shout out to the staff.

You're just mad because Claustrum is useless just like smn's melee damage.

[Seriha]

As of right now - anyone can get an Empyrean weapon. I don't care if you have 4hours a week or 40, anyone can get a weapon. SE has already made it as easy as humanly possible.

Eh, could still use some finishing touches, like 3x'ing the KI NMs, but I also fear for the trials leading up to the eventual level 99 versions and 100 trophy items from a Shinsolute Warden bastard equivalent mob that requires an 18-man alliance and only drops one per kill after maybe getting a 10% chance pop item from a HKC99 with junk loot that nobody wants to do.

[Annahya]

Honestly the trials are set up fine...

An opinion like my post; and of no more, or less, value.

...and encourage people to take a very casual approach to obtaining the items to obtain an Empyrean weapon as-is.

I believe that casual is much to loosely used in this context.

It may be boring but so was getting a Relic or Mythic - repetition does that.

Relic and Mythic repetition is a little different in application; (and this is in reference to the previous paradigm) getting into a decent linkshell with more positives than negatives, organizing an event, clearing a zone and having to formulate or follow a plan, etc. - monotonous, yes, but on a much broader scale, so that within the minutia there was a greater degree of variation. Empyrean weapons are much more micro in scope - many are possible to solo/duo, and the plan needs not be more complex than the strategy to beat one NM at a time.

The point I was making was that repetition was the problem, to state "other things are repetitious, and therefor boring" isn't really a counter argument to the assertion "repetition is boring;" it is more of a separate, but related, assertion that other parts of the game are boring as well.

In your example Gukumatz would become an intense bottleneck and the rest of the trials would be steamrolled in a matter of days. You'd see people getting 18man groups for Emp credit and the system would be even more aflow with Emps than it already is atm. If people on these boards thought EXP leeching was bad, the thought of Empyrean leeching would shake the heavens.

Earlier in my post, I had seconded the previously stated notion that Gukumatz, and other timed-spawn KI NMs should be shifted to forced-pop style. Further, the example I used was in no way a request, it was merely an example given of how the system could have been different - complete with a concession that it was not perfect. It was an illustration and nothing more.

Also, forgive the rhetorical tone the rest of this takes, I assure you it is not to be combative; I am just attempting to make a point.

Do you consider teaming up with an alliance killing the birds you need on an elemental trial "leeching?"

To get credit, one has to be able to equip the weapon - and that begins at 75 - at the later levels that these trials would be at, level 80 or 85 is needed. At that level someone certainly could contribute to the fight if needed. Yes, there would be the difference that 18 people would not have to share the 1-2 items that drop, and that would "speed up" the number of Empyrean weapons in the field - but is that of any consequence to other players? Personally, I would rather the NIN I invite to a party have Blade: Hi, than not have it because he/she needs to earn Kannagi by some arbitrary metric of what is acceptable. As long as he/she didn't hack, RMT, etc. to get it, I would rather he/she be in the thick of it, having a good time and making things explode with awesome explodey powers.

You yourself just insisted that anyone can get an Empyrean weapon - so what does it matter to you if they get it today, or next Thursday? They are going to get it, right?

As of right now - anyone can get an Empyrean weapon. I don't care if you have 4hours a week or 40, anyone can get a weapon. SE has already made it as easy as humanly possible.

So what if they don't have to engage Briareus to get the credit for the kill because they can just stand there and watch their NIN/DNC friend solo him...
...wait, that is already happening in this system that is...

...set up fine...

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Moogles on the street corners handing them out - but this is because I want to earn it through fun and challenging game play, not because I want less people to have them. In my opinion, anyone who can look at the Empyrean Weapon trials from beginning to end, even with my alteration, and say that it wasn't earned is being a bit harsh.

Just some thoughts I had after reading your response, I welcome any commentary you or others may have in kind.

/back to spamming Briareus

[Edit: Cleaned up some spelling, as well as some "ungh, it is 2AM" sentence structure.]

[svengalis]

Hey Tamoa, I'll buy an emp weapon from your shell /wink

But yeah, bad idea. This will give RMTs an incentive to come back into the game again, right when we finally got rid of them.

They never left.

[Runespider]

Emps are easy enough now, I mean really fricking easy. Lets leave it at that, even my friends mom has one and she only plays a few hours in the evenings.

[Atomic_Skull]

People are actually complaining that emps are too hard now?

Wow, just.. wow.

[Yarly]

I think empyrean weapons should be sold from an NPC for about 1 million gil (that's a LOT of gil!)
This allows for people who have lives like school or work to obtain weapons that those no life elitist players get by playing without sleep.