Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Korpg]

Oh okay. Pull up a math-whiz. I want to see a side-by-side comparison of overall damage between a Ukonvasara WAR/SAM and a Hver SMN/SAM using Garuda and P claws, holding TP to 300% for Mykrr. Both jobs can have March+3 x2, Haste spell, Haste Samba, and Red Curry Buns, aka sustainable buff conditions for a group that doesn't suck. I assume SS RR Apoc or VV RR Apoc for the WAR, whichever is stronger. VV RR Apoc for the SMN? Or is there something better?

Byrth or Raen or someone similarly inclined mind running something like this out?

Edit: Does a level 95 monster with 420 defense and 85 VIT sound about right?

You might as well make the atmas the same also, just to show the true difference between the two jobs.

[Alhanelem]

Absolutely nothing wrong with melee summoners at all, when they can pull it off.

But they lose a lot of solo ability doing so, that is another problem that needs to be solved.

You don't lose anything... Pet kiting is still your friend; It's not like I threw away my other staves or anything. I can still use it when necessary.

Personally, I find SMN in this situation to be great at gathering light. The weapon skill you're using doesn't do direct damage, thus you cannot cause ruby, no matter what you're fighting. And All blood pacts give pearl light, so you can spike down a mob and still get pearl. You also have a good magic WS in Cataclysm, that still does enough damage without being boosted to be able to get the amber lights. It's no Cleave or Charged Whisker, of course, but it can still be helpful on occasion.

This sticks out in Tahrongi, where most of the normal mobs do not give Amber (except the most unfriendly ones). So, my group usually has me go over to the turtles or hunt the tier 1s to get amber while they farm cockatrice or cats (Was going to say something else, but that's kind of inapproprate lol) with AoE spam to get lots of chests. Sure, I'm hardly the only one who can do that- but it worked pretty nicely for us.

[Greatguardian]

You might as well make the atmas the same also, just to show the true difference between the two jobs.

I'd rather the atmas be whatever's ideal for the job. I don't want any wiggle room for technicalities.

[Razushu]

Oh okay. Pull up a math-whiz. I want to see a side-by-side comparison of overall damage between a Ukonvasara WAR/SAM and a Hver SMN/SAM using Garuda and P claws, holding TP to 300% for Mykrr. Both jobs can have March+3 x2, Haste spell, Haste Samba, and Red Curry Buns, aka sustainable buff conditions for a group that doesn't suck. I assume SS RR Apoc or VV RR Apoc for the WAR, whichever is stronger. VV RR Apoc for the SMN? Or is there something better?



Byrth or Raen or someone similarly inclined mind running something like this out?

Edit: Does a level 95 monster with 420 defense and 85 VIT sound about right?

I don't think anyone with a mental level above that of a desk lamp is saying SMN can out DD a WAR

[Korpg]

You don't lose anything... Pet kiting is still your friend; It's not like I threw away my other staves or anything. I can still use it when necessary.

Personally, I find SMN in this situation to be great at gathering light. The weapon skill you're using doesn't do direct damage, thus you cannot cause ruby, no matter what you're fighting. And All blood pacts give pearl light, so you can spike down a mob and still get pearl. You also have a good magic WS in Cataclysm, that still does enough damage without being boosted to be able to get the amber lights. It's no Cleave or Charged Whisker, of course, but it can still be helpful on occasion.

No, you misunderstood.

I'm stating that you can't solo NMs while meleeing them, because you lose the viability of either pet kite or pet tank.

I mean, sure, there are some NMs where it wouldn't hurt to melee (Brooder, the T2 in La Theine comes to mind) but there are some that it would be detrimental for you to melee at all (Chloris, or Chione comes to mind here). I'm not stating that you have Dallas's state of mind where its melee or GTFO, but there are situations where meleeing = death. Lots of situations like that.

[Alhanelem]

It's really not necessary- I already know that even at our absolute maximum capacity, we cannot compete with a WAR like that. If you're trying to convince Dallas, that will never happen, he's just too blind.

[Greatguardian]

I don't think anyone with a mental level above that of a desk lamp is saying SMN can out DD a WAR

It's too bad we have someone in here with the mental level below a desk lamp, isn't it?

[Dallas]

I'd rather the atmas be whatever's ideal for the job. I don't want any wiggle room for technicalities.

Then remove all atma AND buffs outside what the job gan give itself. Pets don't benefit from party buffs, which is why you specifically set it up the way you did.

[Korpg]

I'd rather the atmas be whatever's ideal for the job. I don't want any wiggle room for technicalities.

Too late for that. If you keep the atmas the same Dallas would state that he wasn't given the atmas he would have choosen, and if the atmas benefited the job individually Dallas would state that the atmas determined the difference, not the job.

Edit: But then again, he pulls one on us and tries to make him look good by taking away the only viable way that a SMN can melee effectively. So he can state that the difference is negligible because it deals with situations outside of Abyssea and it is in Abyssea he really shines.

[Dallas]

Korpg, you aren't qualified to speak for me. You aren't close.