[dev1017]* Dancer Support/Healing Redux Idea (also /Dnc suggestions)

[Eri]

Let me give an example, in this case to stop sambas from getting overwritten.

Idea!

You 'Tier' the Daze effects infliced on the mob by Sambas.

So: Aspir I > Drain I > Aspir II > Drain II > Haste Samba > Drain III >
Hasts Samba(Merrited)

Therefore a Mob would never get infliced by a Lower Tier Daze Effect.

So if you had a main Dancer casting a Merrited Haste Samba and a sub dancer in the Group that casts a Drain Samba I. Everyone would get the Merrited Haste Samba
instead of the person that hit last inflicting an alternate Daze effect.

that would be an Idea to prevent overwriteing. Dunno if its good but its an Idea.

[Byrth]

I still don't understand why you're ever having trouble with people overwriting your Sambas. The people I play with aren't eager to burn their TP to give an inferior buff.

[Amanie]

i got it!!! make all the sambas stack with each other

so 5 /dnc using haste samba = 25% JA haste
or 1dnc 3 /dnc use haste samba and another /dnc use drain samba
heck 1dnc 1brd/dnc 1haste mage/dnc and 3DD/dnc and get super haste and drain samba 4

think of the awesomeness!!!
melee mages would be hot no?

but seriously SE. i want more steps/sambas/jigs. waltzes need fixing. and t3 merits better rock!

[StingRay104]

how would you skill up? /dance?

[Eri]

I still don't understand why you're ever having trouble with people overwriting your Sambas. The people I play with aren't eager to burn their TP to give an inferior buff.

Well some ppl that do that like subbing Dnc in a Pt Situation for whatever Reason
(dont get that either.)
and feel like use Abilitys given to them by dnc Sub. Which is not benefical at all

i got it!!! make all the sambas stack with each other

so 5 /dnc using haste samba = 25% JA haste
or 1dnc 3 /dnc use haste samba and another /dnc use drain samba
heck 1dnc 1brd/dnc 1haste mage/dnc and 3DD/dnc and get super haste and drain samba 4

think of the awesomeness!!!
melee mages would be hot no?

but seriously SE. i want more steps/sambas/jigs. waltzes need fixing. and t3 merits better rock!

Stacking Sambas would indeed be cool thu i think it would be a bit overpowerd....
(and i'm not really fond of Meeleing mages(Aspir Samba?)) also!
Anyway i'm thinking if you could Stack Sambas would it be like:
Haste (Yellow) + Drain (Redish) = 10% Haste+ Drain (Purpleish)
that'd be pretty funny and colorful!

On another Note im thinking about a system to increse debuff effects increaseing by lvl rather than Skill... that idea is not a finished concept yet thu (to make it fair for main and sub)

[AyinDygra]

The assumption here is that there needs to be a gradual change: making things worse than they are currently, at lower levels, and increasing the abilities beyond their current strengths at higher levels. The other point is that Dancers shouldn't conflict with each other, Main or Support. I only agree on some points. I'll go through a few that I see here.


First: Sambas
Their potency is based on weapon delay and Tiers. Dancer gets higher tiers to increase potency, and when used as a support job, they do not get the highest tiers. The ONLY issue that I can see here is overwriting of Sambas with inferior sambas, but that can be handled with communication.

* I already suggested the Job Trait: Choreography (level 50) earlier in this thread to stop Dancers from stepping on each others' toes, as far as applying lower tier sambas and overwriting each others' effects. This trait would make Dancers more powerful with two in a group, or even a main with "backup" "/dnc"ers.
- This effect should be limited to "normal Samba" and "Enhanced Samba" (only 2 stages total). Either one can be on the target to create the "normal" Samba, but a Dancer Main's Samba must be up to gain the "Enhanced Samba" when anyone else is using the same type of samba. (two different sambas would not be enhanced - just communicate and use the same one!)
- Steps are already cooperative.
- No impact on Waltzes or Jigs.
- The only Flourish impacted by this Job Trait would be Desperate Flourish, increasing the potency of gravity, even when the "spell" version of gravity is already on the target.


Jigs:
Jigs are already limited in duration without the gear we have. I personally like fixed durations. No changes here.


Waltzes:
Waltz formulas already take into account stats at different rates for Main and Support. Dancer Main gets higher tiers of Waltzes. The only change I'd make is splitting waltz timers. This change should be for both Main and Support. It's a silly limitation - TP and individual recast timers are the only limitations needed on Waltzes: you just can't spam waltzes for very long with 300 max that drains quickly.

Finally Steps:
Steps already have a cooperative element built into them as all Dancers using the same steps will simply increase the level of the step, or extend the duration at the highest level (no fixes needed for conflict there.)

Now, I mainly use steps to build finishing moves. Which step is chosen isn't really all that important against most targets. I'd like our choice of steps to be more important. The main issue with steps is how they build in power over time as more and more steps are applied, which makes them have only negligible effects in short fights. Since there is no distinction, currently, between a Dancer Main and a /dnc's steps, (the existing game mechanic is all steps of the same type building on the same status effect) the power of a Dancer Main's steps cannot differ from support /dnc steps.

* The most complicated method would likely be be accomplished by allowing Steps to have varying power levels that build a step effect's potency. This would be an overhaul of the current step code. It would allow steps to increase in potency in more incremental amounts, instead of a simple "5 level" status effect. Dancer Mains would get stronger per-step increases than support /dnc. This would make it harder to see how powerful the current step effect is, since it would be handled similarly to how Haste is handled on a fractional basis, and we can't see the step's power level directly like we can see Haste on gear and add it up. (they could increase step "numbers" to show more incremental steps, but the current method of gaining finishing moves relies on the 5 step method to make dancers switch up the steps they're using to continue getting the most finishing moves per step, since they currently only gain 1 finishing move after the level 5 status effect is achieved, rather than 2 per step under level 5 effect.)

* A simple solution, though less incremental, keeps the "numbered" system in place. The difference being all of Dancer Main's steps increase the step level by 2, while support /dnc raises it by 1 each time. (Presto would have to be adjusted to +1 more level on its activation) This would allow Dancer Mains to bring their steps to full power quicker than support jobs, which is a major bonus when you consider the Damage caused by the rest of the party for the durations that certain levels of each step are on the enemy. A further bonus to this change is that Dancer mains could keep more level 5 effects up at a time, or build steps back to level 5 faster when they let certain steps drop off.



That's all I'd do about existing abilities in the light of Conflicting with other Dancers and support Dancers, and improving accuracy/potency/duration of abilities as we reach higher levels.
(Unrelated to this post directly) I have many other ideas for additions to Dancer, though (link and link)

[Korpg]

Let me give an example, in this case to stop sambas from getting overwritten.

Idea!

You 'Tier' the Daze effects infliced on the mob by Sambas.

So: Aspir I > Drain I > Aspir II > Drain II > Haste Samba > Drain III >
Hasts Samba(Merrited)

Therefore a Mob would never get infliced by a Lower Tier Daze Effect.

So if you had a main Dancer casting a Merrited Haste Samba and a sub dancer in the Group that casts a Drain Samba I. Everyone would get the Merrited Haste Samba
instead of the person that hit last inflicting an alternate Daze effect.

that would be an Idea to prevent overwriteing. Dunno if its good but its an Idea.

What's keeping you from kicking that person who puts on Drain Samba and get a real DD?

[Korpg]

* I already suggested the Job Trait: Choreography (level 50) earlier in this thread to stop Dancers from stepping on each others' toes, as far as applying lower tier sambas and overwriting each others' effects. This trait would make Dancers more powerful with two in a group, or even a main with "backup" "/dnc"ers.

That Choreography idea of yours is the best one on this thread, hands down.

[Chrisstreb]

think my biggest 'beef' with /DNC still is the fact that they have access to most of the things that make main DNC great (specially for lowman situations). Still say giving /DNC Waltz III was probably the biggest mistake SE has made. I do like the JA Idea

[Zatias]

think my biggest 'beef' with /DNC still is the fact that they have access to most of the things that make main DNC great (specially for lowman situations). Still say giving /DNC Waltz III was probably the biggest mistake SE has made. I do like the JA Idea

Waltz III (or any waltz for that matter) as a SJ rather than main is severely underpowered as far as I have seen. It's viable enough for melee to heal themselves to not die, but still very nerfed.

Stacking Sambas might be a good idea, but that would be difficult to do, as the "Daze" effect on the mob is inflicted by the last melee attack under the samba effect. DNC attacks fast enough to simply keep overwriting with the more potent samba. Simply put, overwriting is no different than one mage casting Dia then another overwriting with Bio. Or, further down the line, a mage casting sleep on a mob then another person waking it up with DoT or melee. You just have to tell the other person to stop.

Doesn't listen? What's the shape of Italy?