Let me start off by saying that I would be lying if I said there is nothing about the Dynamis changes that I like. However, the things I dislike about the changes far outweigh the things that I do like. Beaucedine is by far the epitome of everything I hate about neo Dynamis. Keep in mind that many of the things I am about to list actually apply to all of the neo zones, but in general this post is regarding Beaucedine specifically.
Let's see, where to start... ah yes, let's start with the reason people do events in the first place:
Rewards:
For the most part, Dynamis rewards suck. Sell price on the NPC-able stuff was nerfed by 90%. Currency drop rates were nerfed. AF2 drop rates seem higher than ever, but we were maxed out on that stuff a year before these changes even happened. The vast majority of the new equipment sucks, and the stuff that doesn't suck is ridiculously hard to obtain. The exp was a nice touch, but the amount earned is laughable (which I suppose is fitting seeing how bad the exp papers from Dynamis have always been). My LS members sometimes ask me "Why are we still doing this?" and I honestly don't have a very good answer. It's a crapton of work for very little reward.
Zone enormity:
This is one of the biggest "wtf" things in Beauc. It's a sprawling zone and it takes over 10 minutes to run from the rearguard eye to the orc timestone. After that pleasant run, you get to run all the way back up to farm hydra corps for pop items. After you get the pop items and kill the 4 neo NMs, you get to run ALL THE WAY BACK DOWN to pop Arch Angra Mainyu. In the original Beauc, I could at least plot efficient courses where we wouldn't spend longer than 3 minutes without fighting something. Now we wind up spending almost half of the 2 hours permitted in the zone running around with sneak and invis on.
Pop items:
I'm grateful for all the extra pack space we've gotten recently, but holding pop items for Dynamis is not really what I was thinking I'd be using it for. Aside from being completely contrary to what Dynamis has been before the update, it takes up space and adds a new level of frustration to dynamis. My LS has spent the last 2 runs farming the higher level Hydra Corps and we have yet to get a single Odious Mirror pop item. We've killed the other 3 neo NMs, but we just can't get the freaking mirror to drop. Everyone in the LS has tossed an Odious Talisman at least twice now, but we have gotten ZERO mirrors. That is infuriating.
Enemy difficulty:
Hydra corps are harder than any other dynamis mob. They're sight/sound aggro/link mobs who don't sleep and hit harder than the kindreds in Xarc. Hitaume (the neo RNG NM) one-shot our mnk/nin with EES. That might seem normal until you consider that this mnk/nin had scherzo from a bard that had +4 to scherzo and 386 singing, 375 wind skill. Also didn't have counterstance on. Also had a fresh cure V with afflatus solace on. Also had protectra V with 4 merits into it. In general the hydra corps hit harder and take a beating much better than any other family of mobs in dynamis, plus they can't be pulled en masse because they can't be slept.
!! Yinnyth's attack staggers the fiend!
Really? Proccing in Dynamis? Because holding the enemy and spamming weak stuff until you see "!!" when you could have had them dead an hour ago was just so much fun in Abyssea that you had to move it to Dynamis? Granted, it helps to balance out the fact that Dynamis mobs are harder than they used to be, and I'm glad it doesn't require you to proc while the enemy isn't casting, WSing, or stunned, but this was a bad idea in general. Worse still was linking the procs to the timestones, especially for Beauc. If we want to farm pop items, we're going to need to be able to proc. In order to proc, we need timestones. Timestones and the stuff we need to farm are on opposite ends of the zone, so at least 1 person gets to run down to all the timestones, and all the way back up. Fun stuff.
Timestone glitch:
The gobbie timestone sometimes spawns down near the yagudo timestone. Why?
TL;DR:
Neo Dynamis sucks, Neo Beaucedine ssssuuuuuUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSSSSSS!
(it sucks)
Edit: I don't really think this came across very well the first time I wrote this, so I'd like to give a better summary of what I'm trying to say. My dislike of the dynamis changes aside, it is my opinion that Beaucedine is particularly harder in nearly every way than any other area of the neo-dynamis. As such, I would like to see Beaucedine rebalanced to make it faster for groups to hit the timestones, and hydra corps scaled down in difficulty in one or many ways (make them sleepable, for example). Taking both of those steps would go a long way in addressing the majority of my complaints about the zone.
Neo Dynamis - Beaucedine
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06-19-2011, 12:18 PMYinnythNeo Dynamis - Beaucedine
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06-19-2011, 01:34 PMBumbeenWhat a waste of merits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinnyth
edit: also why the crying about dying in dynamis? Have you ever done dynamis before? -
06-19-2011, 02:17 PMRavenmore
Why would you even bother doing this zone, other then af2, wins, or relic item farming. Wait those are the same reasons people did it under the old system. People wanted harder content they got it.
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06-19-2011, 03:08 PMYinnythMule whm whose almost sole purpose is buffing and curing me and my friend whom I frequently duo with. Any extra merits into sacrifice would be wasted since the mule is almost never in a party with anyone else who has any sort of MP pool. Ever trolled around BG? Then you've probably stumbled upon the phrase !@#$ is situational.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbeen
I've been doing Dynamis for longer than you've been trolling. Since about half a year after Dynamis came out. I've even been leading a Dynamis linkshell for the past 5 years or so. I opposed the changes as soon as they were announced, and I continue to oppose them to this day. If you think the changes are good, make the argument and give reasons. Share your positive experiences with Dynamis as I have shared my negative experiences. That is how people constructively discuss something instead of dismissing a point without even understanding it, though I suppose asking someone of your mental stature to "understand" something is a fruitless endeavor. Please, by all means though, continue trolling this thread. Perhaps the extra posts will help bring this to the attention of SE.
Also, love the wahhhhhhh tag.
It takes more time and more effort to obtain something that is increasingly outclassed by other weapons (hi empy). My linkshell had farming currency for our sponsors down to a science. Before you say "just do CoP zones then", I'd like you to know that CoP zones put out less than half the currency of pre-nerf cities without even factoring hundos into the equation. We did CoPs for entertainment, but as a primary source of currency it would cost as much to finish a relic (fully sponsored) now as it did back when Dynamis was first released (and the ingame economy is not nearly as inflated as it was back then (hi rusty caps)).Quote:
Why would you even bother doing this zone, other then af2, wins, or relic item farming. Wait those are the same reasons people did it under the old system. People wanted harder content they got it.
As for why we're doing Beauc specifically, it's for drops off the neoboss. As for people wanting harder content, it's unfair to lump all "people" outside of yourself in the same category. We are all individuals, we all have different wants, so you cannot dismiss one person's concerns with another anonymous person's generalized statement. I want harder content, but I want the reward to match the difficulty. This is harder and less rewarding, and as I stated back when these changes were first announced, Dynamis will go the way of WoE if these problems are not soon addressed.
Though from your phrasing, I'm guessing you'd be ok with that. You have nothing invested in Dynamis, so you don't care what happens. If I'm completely wrong and you actually have different reasons for liking the changes, please, share those reasons. -
06-19-2011, 03:24 PMRavenmore
So all those threads complaining about how easy FF11 has become don't mean anything. Stop farming as a single group its that easy. Many 3 man groups going after there own groups of mobs will pay off in more coins. Don't have to put up 500k anymore so no need to sell coins to fund the next run. Can do it every day. It'll go the way of WoEs since few people want to fund/work for other people toys. Now people don't need a LS to get the last of the AF2 they may want there is no need need to stay with them. Every time I see "we fund people's relic" first thing that comes to mind is leader gets one then maybe his buddies.
I like it for the simple fact that after years of waiting couple of my friends being at the end of the line for rdm hat they now all have it thanks to the new dyna. I can go in with 2 or 3 of my friends and walk out with a massive amount of gil. If I ever take up thf or rdm I won't have to put up with spon/leaders city runs to get north land gear list goes on. -
06-19-2011, 03:26 PMByrth
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Odious_Mirror
When you do find your Odious Mirror, let me know what drops it! :D -
06-19-2011, 09:36 PMNeika
I honestly like the new dynamis. It's nice to be able to just go duo stuff with my boyfriend for gear/currency when we want to instead of having to join a linkshell and having to wait for months before I get enough "points" to lot the gear I want. I do kind of wish they would change the dynamis beaucedine boss a bit though.... You can get the city clears with a small group, but beaucedine is kinda rough with those dragons since you can't kite them as far anymore :(
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06-20-2011, 01:54 AMYinnythIt is certainly true that you make more coins per man hour by splitting up and farming as several small, capable groups of players. My LS "sponsor" (if you can even call it that anymore) and I sometimes duo Windy in our free time to help speed up the sponsorship, though it is still fairly slow going. The higher tier goals in Dynamis are what really seems like a waste, honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenmore
After I had been leading the LS for a while, I finally managed to make the money to run for sponsorship myself. I posted my application to sponsor and when the previous sponsor finished, we held a vote. I won by 1 vote, but stepped down and let the runner-up sponsor first even though this was a guy who had like 7 mules and a Dynamis linkshell of his own that he would just play different characters in. About 2 months after he finished, he never showed up again.Quote:
Every time I see "we fund people's relic" first thing that comes to mind is leader gets one then maybe his buddies.
It is an annoying truth that most of the people who get relics don't deserve them, but there are a few good people who get a relic, and my LS has a few of them.
Says you. Dynamis was my favorite ingame event before the changes. And if you refer to my first post, you'll see my reasons for being a crybaby. Though I could come up with more reasons if you'd like another wall of text to boil down into clever manipulations of the word "wahhhhh".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbeen
That's one thing I'm surprised other linkshells hadn't really improved despite the droprate changes on AF2 twice. The 2 or 3 months of runs we did before the changes, we were getting so much AF2 that no one needed any more. Anytime we got a new member, they'd get pretty much everything they wanted in a few weeks, then they'd go *poof*. As for the Beauc boss, it just takes one really good kiter with some movespeed, or just a few really strong DD if you just want to zerg him. I think Kirs parsed him at 9k HP or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neika
Farming Dynamis now for coins and gear is certainly more casual than it used to be. Casual to the point where I won't be able to keep my LS alive if we're always doing stuff that can frankly be solo'd. And maybe that's just the way it should be, but I'm really trying to fight the death of my Dynamis LS. -
06-20-2011, 02:22 AMRaxiaz
Rearrange your strategies as a LS in Dynamis. It's really not that hard. You can go in with a full 18 man group or just 3 people. But with all the new changes, none of the old strats for Dynamis will really work. So stop crying and start formulating!
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06-20-2011, 02:43 AMVoldIf your LS dies when it doesn't even need any relic armor then it's your own faults for not adjusting for a new Dynamis. Split up your force into 3 man groups and hop to it(possibly more depending on your targets con), beau sucking in general aside. You should be popping out of Dynamis with money falling out of your pockets. If you're not then you are doing new Dynamis terribly wrong. And you should never ever hold any mob to proc it. Ever. Unless it's a NM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinnyth
They really should give us another half a hour to a hour, though. That would help LSs to not have to do it beyond 3-4 days every week to make up for the time lost, not to mention Arch boss farming.... Dynamis is still best done as a linkshell, by a mile. Procs and them being tied to TE was a measure to ensure linkshell dominance by numbers and speed(shipping off a person or three to take out TE doesn't effect a LSs bottom line, but it's a bitch for low man as you lose 15-40 minutes running around with no killing) People need to realize that already and move on before they retardedly kill a good thing for themselves. -
06-20-2011, 05:51 AMOctaviane
I like the New Dynamis simply for this reason. It gave the opportunity for people who have never been able to enter (real life commitments, work, school, families etc) without having to join a Dynamis LS and commit 3 + hours twice a week and be subjected to the horror of "The Greed Syndrome" and the LS Leaders "Favoritism" factor.
Did a Basty run for fun today, not the win, just for fun. We got 3/5 people a piece of Relic, a couple coins, relic weapons and junk stuff. Nothing too outstanding perhaps, but everyone enjoyed themselves.
I am sure that most people doing Dynamis now have figured out how to do each zone efficiently, or, are on their way to figuring it out. Instead of calling people's "mentality" into question because you are annoyed OP, give it more time, sit down and re-configure your strategies. -
06-20-2011, 08:47 AMAnnahyaAm I the only one who reads this as "let's have a civil conversation, you idiot;" or did I miss something?Quote:
If you think the changes are good, make the argument and give reasons. Share your positive experiences with Dynamis as I have shared my negative experiences. That is how people constructively discuss something instead of dismissing a point without even understanding it, though I suppose asking someone of your mental stature to "understand" something is a fruitless endeavor.
To the original topic: I think some of your concerns are valid - like the proc system. I don't have an issue with it existing, but certainly does seem a bit clumsier than the one in Abyssea.
Specifically to the preservation of your Dynamis LS, I would have to side with some of the previous respondants in that this merely requires a change to the LSs approach to Dynamis, or potentially, a change to the event the LS exists for. If you have been playing together a long time, stick together - find a way to approach Dynamis, or change it into an Empyrean Weapon LS or something. Don't let your dislike for the new Dynamis destroy the community you have built - regardless if your dislike is founded or not - have fun with friends.
Good luck man, I hope things work out for you one way or another. -
06-20-2011, 09:08 AMAlhanelemThis was never worthwhile even before the nerf.Quote:
Sell price on the NPC-able stuff was nerfed by 90%.
If you consistently proc, the rates are fine. If you factor the fact that lots of people sell their currency and people can go in at basically any time and every day, currency production is probably up, especially given that a lot of people had quit dynamis around or before abyssea came out.Quote:
Currency drop rates were nerfed.
Currency prices on shiva have dropped noticably.
They always were. There's no problem hereQuote:
Hydra corps are harder than any other dynamis mob.
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06-20-2011, 09:09 AMYinnythIt's interesting that you know what's good for me and my linkshell. Before neo-dynamis evolved, my linkshell was doing full clears of even Windurst (the hardest city to full clear) in just barely over 2 hours. Full clears (thanks to the changes in TH) were starting to net us over 400 singles every single run, and we had started having melees kill the stones as well which meant more frequent hundos (usually 1-3 per run, sometimes 0, sometimes 5). So averaging about 580 coins in 2 hours. What's your best take in a 2 hour run of neo dynamis?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vold
We did it for coins, and now we have to spend more man-hours per coin than we used to. It's most likely that after our current sponsor finishes, we'll do away with the sponsorship system and instead let coins free-fall. Dynamis will become the domain of people who just want to make some gil. Much better than the evil greed which used to run rampant in Dynamis, right?
That is perhaps the single worst thing about old Dynamis. In old Dynamis, you had to rely on other people. And frankly, most people suck. I'm glad that you have gotten some enjoyment out of the changed Dynamis. My primary worry about that, however, is that you, and people in a similar situation as you, will ultimately get tired of the new Dynamis a little too quickly. It's very easy to get AF2 now, so unless you know someone trying for a relic weapon, I don't think the casual players who recently had Dynamis opened to them will continue doing Dynamis very long, though perhaps the desire to make gil off selling currency will prove me wrong. Regardless, I would have rather seen the AF2 added to some other old event (like campaign) or add the AF2 to a new event (like the new burning circle battles) than see Dynamis changed the way it has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octaviane
Anyways, I'm getting off track here. What I'm really trying to say here: Beaucedine is significantly harder than the other neo Dynamis zones, which really makes no sense. I think Xarc should either be made harder, or Beauc should be made easier. -
06-20-2011, 09:15 AMYinnythThat was actually exactly what I was going for. I was trolling the troll. Not my proudest moment ever, but I could hardly resist the chance to take a few jabs at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annahya
Actually, I think I must have phrased my original point poorly. What I meant to say was more along the lines of "Although I dislike pretty much all the changes of Dynamis, I think Beaucedine in particular is borked and should be re-examined." I'd like it if there were 2 copies of each timestone, one set of stones on the upper path (for people going after neo-NMs) and one set of stones on the lower path (for people farming currency). I also think the strength of the hydra corps should be re-examined since they put the kindred to shame.Quote:
To the original topic: I think some of your concerns are valid - like the proc system. I don't have an issue with it existing, but certainly does seem a bit clumsier than the one in Abyssea.
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06-20-2011, 09:55 AMAlhanelem
Well, I can't really agree with any part of your post, because I like the new dynamis. I like how I don't need to devote a 4 hour block of time to it, and how there's actually new stuff in it.
The only thing I can agree with is the new area is huge and having to go all over the place for the time extensions means a lot of unnecessary running in comparison to every other area. -
06-20-2011, 10:02 AMBumbeen
Prices really down on shiva? They are way up on valefor :(
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06-20-2011, 10:23 AMByrth
Prices are up about 3k/piece on Lakshmi. I think it'll either go down once people realize they can duo ~200 currency a night, or all those people will decide they're doing relic weapons and it'll stay high.
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06-20-2011, 11:35 AMBumbeen
I noticed that a lot of the stage 2 and 3 ah items started selling much faster after the update.
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06-20-2011, 12:04 PMAlhanelemNothing to do with relic weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbeen
Bronzepieces have dropped from 16k ish to 13k ish. Largely because lots of people farming sandy now, and it's probably the easiest area to farm in. -
06-20-2011, 12:10 PMBumbeenI mean things like koh-i-noor and canteralla, a bunch of those started selling recently compared to like once a month before dyna update.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I do notice a lot of excess sandy currency. I am trying to hunt down byne bills and all I see are coins half the time. -
06-20-2011, 01:14 PMRavenmore
Big reason your not seeing much currancy or over priced is the big sponor shell are dead, or no longer having to farm the zones that drop all coins to keep the grunts happy. People that are jacking the coin price up are the one's that don't see moving any just getting more, but im not complaining I shout offering them 2 to 3k less then the bazzar's they go with in mins. Even just selling them for 10k a piece it only takes 5 coins to make back the cost of the KI, fig maybe at most 20k a run in food and RR items if that after the first 2 coins its all profit.
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06-20-2011, 01:54 PMByrth
I tend to buy coins from people underselling market value and resell them overnight at a profit. If you and 9 other people sell me 20 coins each for 3k below market price, I wake up the next morning 600k richer. Just because you've sold them for cheap doesn't mean you've affected the market price, it only means you've created a niche for people like me to make money.
Anyway, pre-patch people realized that supply for coins was so low that they weren't trying to do Relic weapons because collecting 17000 of the suckers was an exercise in futility. Now supply of coins is up, but demand is way up. People are done with Abyssea and we're starting to see the effects of Abyssea inflation on our currency markets, because a lot more people look at their gil line and go "70 mil? That's probably enough to start a relic! Why not? Gil is good for nothing else!"
Heck, I almost did it myself. Then I stopped myself, because I'll be damned if I feel like duoing Dynamis for a few months! -
06-20-2011, 02:32 PMRavenmore
Thing is you only 60,000 richer then me while I have my inv back with out having to leave my PC on. Nither way is wrong I value not leaving my PC on over nite, you don't. Some of it could also be a bit of a hold over from another point in my life not wanting to get stuck holding the bag.
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06-20-2011, 02:55 PMAlhanelemThat's honestly a douchey thing to do.Quote:
I tend to buy coins from people underselling market value and resell them overnight at a profit.
It's also silly, bazarring all night just to earn a few extra K. You could sell anything for the gain you'd be getting.... -
06-20-2011, 03:24 PMRavenmoreIts been around for awhile rog used to do it with people trying to move currancy to fund the next run. I don't seeing anything wrong with it. I know most of the time if they will turn around and resell it or not. Still wouldn't want to risk buying it to resell if the market adjust before you can move it. As time goes on and more people will find out what works best.If you can duo 100 to 200 coins a day why bother buying either you'll waste crour or spend time in gimpy exp parties to make more gil to buy might as well cut the middle man and go to the source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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06-20-2011, 03:33 PMBumbeen
I used to do that all the time on LS bank mule. Made tons of gil from it. But you'd be hard pressed to find 10 people selling 20 coins for 3k under normal price.
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06-20-2011, 04:57 PMAlhanelemit keeps prices higher when they should be going down.Quote:
I don't seeing anything wrong with it.
Honestly, there is no reason whatsoever for prices to stay the same or go up. The demand for relics isn't significantly higher, and the cost associated with dynamis has been virtually eliminated. -
06-20-2011, 07:51 PMByrth
It's easy gil for me and takes very little time. I used to do it on anything that I thought I could get a 10% return on (Gaiters and Novios were fantastic), but now I only do it on really good deals because I don't care about gil anymore. It brought me from 0 gil and having to borrow a stack of shihei and a dark staff when I returned to the game to 23mil in 3 months two years ago about this time, which I gave to a friend so he could finish his G-horn. Then I quit, went to Europe for a month, came back, and did it again!
It's not douche-y to know the real price for things. People pay a convenience fee. They dump their currency/items quickly, I take on the risk. One time I bought 20mil worth of bynes and tried to feed the market them slowly (a few stacks per night). Ended up only getting 19mil back (which was a horrible return compared to what I'd expected). One other time I accumulated about 2000 Alexandrite and it didn't look like they'd ever sell, but someone swooped in when I was just about to lower the price and bought them all. It's not a risk free venture, although it's very profitable for me on average.
Plus, I'm hardly alone on this. Why do you think there were always the same people with currency every night in Rolanmart? They had multiple accounts and were doing Dynamis 7 nights a week? People that used Rolanmart were paying higher prices on average to have us aggregate the currency for them. If you ask people with deep pockets that are doing a relic, they'll tell you one of the biggest pains is just finding the currency to buy.
Provide a service on both ends, take a risk, get a profit.
PS. Remember currency prices dropping when SE halved glass fees? Yeah, neither do I. -
06-20-2011, 08:07 PMBumbeen
Byrth you should have done a relic with all that cheap currency. You're still making profit whether you sell it or turn it into a weapon!
I don't understand why hourglass was a hindrance to lowman pre-update, you made that 500k back quickly. -
06-20-2011, 11:11 PMByrthThat's true, actually, and at one point it was a long-term goal of mine. I couldn't put it straight into a relic though, because it would freeze all my capital and dramatically drop my earning potential. The plan was to keep using the money I had to make money, and if I eventually had enough for a relic at market prices, I'd buy one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbeen