FFXI Job Direction?? Dev Team, Please Respond.

Dear SE, I was wondering if you can tell us what direction the ffxi jobs are heading in?

A link to great examples you given us in the past.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/top.../060330_1.html

Thanks for taking the time to read this.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

SMN: really needs ALOT to make it comparative to any other job atm, and SE seems to be giving it nothing but trash and niceties that aren't really needed.

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I'm sure this will come in update notes like they always have.

That being said, I think it's safe to assume that they will continue the current trend:
WAR: heavy hitting and unbelievably high tp gain, no real defense and stupid high enmity gain.
MNK: high dps but slower tp gain, defensive.
WHM: cure better than thou
BLM: nuke better than thou
RDM: debuff better than thou
THF: TH better than thou
PLD: lol
DRK: I assume they'll continue to try to buff both sides of DRK, damage and magic, although probably to no avail.
BST: hard to say since nothing has really been added to bst but stronger jug pets
BRD: can't go wrong with capping haste, so no matter what SE does unless RDM gets Haste II for 40%+ haste SE doesn't really need to give anything to BRD to be able to keep it's place in parties.
RNG: increase damage output to offset the loss of no haste. rng TH shot was unforseen, maybe they will add more to that
SAM: increase SC and MB damage from their SC i assume. Maybe native regain?
NIN: hard to say, they've had some pretty substantial upgrades since 75. Reduce TP gain more maybe.
DRG: more heavy hitting but no defensive side. updates to the forced breath abilities maybe
SMN: really needs ALOT to make it comparative to any other job atm, and SE seems to be giving it nothing but trash and niceties that aren't really needed.
BLU: this job has a lot already, heavy nuke damage, heavy physical spell damage, and more MP efficient (and more powerful) cures than both RDM and SCH atm. It could use a new head butt though.
COR: has gotten quite a bit since 75, although it's still nothing compared to BRD.
PUP: lol
SCH: has gotten a lot since 75, a lot more buffing and nuking power but has strayed away from the curing side. this might be it's direction
DNC: needs waltz recast reduction. Maybe SE will help them out in that department D:

anyway speculation based off of how SE has handled things since 75.

Asked for similar a bit back, but it pretty much went ignored. The fact we're supposed to get some kind of 'Job Adjustments' in June according the plan would suggest something is in the pipes, but for all we know that just be a few minor tweaks while some jobs need many and major. I'm still waiting for them to make on their promise to overpower some jobs to emphasize their vision of them. We arguably got a hint of that with WHM and its current curative prowess, while other jobs like MNK and WAR could be open for debate depending on how you consider the availability of Emp WS, which from my perspective, are still kind of rare on Sylph.

B B B B B B B BUMP

- SAM, MNK, and WAR will receive ridiculous DD buffs.
- PLD will receive more seemingly-random buffs as SE desperately tries to find a way to make it the only 'real' tank.
- NIN will be somehow adjusted and 'discouraged' from tanking.
- THF will be nerfed by accident. Repeatedly.
- RDM and BRD scare SE and they will not receive a substantive adjustment.
- PUP and BST confuse SE too much to receive a substantive, relevant adjustment.
- BLM will continue to receive new nukes that cap their enmity and drain 1/2 their MP pool in one nuke.
- WHM will continue to exclusively receive new and higher-tier curative spells and abilities.
- BLU and COR will wait and hope that they strike gold and their new spells/rolls are actually useful. It's always hit or miss for them.
- DRG will receive another jump or two. Why? Just because.
- SE will consider introducing a Level 49 level cap on SCH and DNC.
- DRK was scheduled to receive an adjustment, but SE kept missing the deadline.

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Originally Posted by Eeek

- SAM, MNK, and WAR will receive ridiculous DD buffs.
- PLD will receive more seemingly-random buffs as SE desperately tries to find a way to make it the only 'real' tank.
- NIN will be somehow adjusted and 'discouraged' from tanking.
- THF will be nerfed by accident. Repeatedly.
- RDM and BRD scare SE and they will not receive a substantive adjustment.
- PUP and BST confuse SE too much to receive a substantive, relevant adjustment.
- BLM will continue to receive new nukes that cap their enmity and drain 1/2 their MP pool in one nuke.
- WHM will continue to exclusively receive new and higher-tier curative spells and abilities.
- BLU and COR will wait and hope that they strike gold and their new spells/rolls are actually useful. It's always hit or miss for them.
- DRG will receive another jump or two. Why? Just because.
- SE will consider introducing a Level 49 level cap on SCH and DNC.
- DRK was scheduled to receive an adjustment, but SE kept missing the deadline.

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You forgot about RNG DD. That's ok. So did SE.

BAZINGA!

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Originally Posted by Eeek

THF will get a new useless steal job ability that shares a recast timer with Mug.

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FTFY

All joking aside though, I am quite interested an optomisitic about some of these job adjustments. Many of the things that have gone into the game recently have come directly from suggestions and conversations on these boards.

And while there are some completely ridiculous ideas flowing around, they seem to only go with the good ones, and it has been an improvement overall, imo.

Edit 2:

Oh wow, just reread that link...I almost forgot that they promised to fix perfect dodge back in 2006 lol.....yeah. Here's hoping. Mind you the idea they listed there is full of suck. Maybe that's why they scrapped it.

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SMN: really needs ALOT to make it comparative to any other job atm, and SE seems to be giving it nothing but trash and niceties that aren't really needed.

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Can we just sticky this at the top of the forum so the Developers don't accidentally forget it like every single update?

The job is just utter failure.

1. It has almost exclusively defensive wards, but they are all so terrible that in 10 years playing, I've been in the tank party 3 times.
2. You have(had) access to all high level BLM spells, but attached to spirits with the limitations of random spells every 30 seconds after you engaged a monster. (Statistically speaking the only thing living longer than 30 seconds is NMs). Majority of NMs use AOE moves that either kill the spirit, silence the spirit, stun the spirit, or interrupt it.
3. It has ALL debuffs the game has to offer, but never use them because they share the same timer as either the DD pacts or the buff/cure pacts.
4. It shares almost all armors except job specific with BLM. It doesn't use ANY of the shared armors because they don't help SMN.

And that is just the 4 most obvious design flaws. (Why make a defensive support job that nobody wants? Why add nukes that you can't use? Why the gigantic global recast on stuff other jobs have split recasts? Why add new armors without purpose?)

Someone should just rename the job to Masochist Mage. (Alternatively Predator Claw mage)

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Can we just sticky this at the top of the forum so the Developers don't accidentally forget it like every single update?

The job is just utter failure.

1. It has almost exclusively defensive wards, but they are all so terrible that in 10 years playing, I've been in the tank party 3 times.
2. You have(had) access to all high level BLM spells, but attached to spirits with the limitations of random spells every 30 seconds after you engaged a monster. (Statistically speaking the only thing living longer than 30 seconds is NMs). Majority of NMs use AOE moves that either kill the spirit, silence the spirit, stun the spirit, or interrupt it.
3. It has ALL debuffs the game has to offer, but never use them because they share the same timer as either the DD pacts or the buff/cure pacts.
4. It shares almost all armors except job specific with BLM. It doesn't use ANY of the shared armors because they don't help SMN.

And that is just the 4 most obvious design flaws. (Why make a defensive support job that nobody wants? Why add nukes that you can't use? Why the gigantic global recast on stuff other jobs have split recasts? Why add new armors without purpose?)

Someone should just rename the job to Masochist Mage. (Alternatively Predator Claw mage)

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lol, watched a 72 smn/blm once trying to raise with light spirit (yes, it does have raise). Guy kept the thing out for a few minutes, it just buffed itself and he eventually ran out of MP. so he rested, warped, /whm, came back, raised the corpse, resummoned the light spirit and the 2 of them just sat there belittling it in shout until it depopped. one of the funniest moments I've ever seen playing this game.

I noticed the link you posted was from 2006.

They did one of these in 2010 as well, in case you haven;t seen it?

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=21769

as to job direction...

pup: the only things we can be absoutely certain of; whm AI will never be fixed, scanner will never be made to function, rdm pup will remain capped at level 72 and harlequin at 50.

Beast: all depends on where the majority of new content is placed. If it's in Abyssea then all we'll get is new jugs, outside then we might get a tame or charm upgrade

Bard: a new tier to haste and elegy, if we are lucky, threnody II; oh, we'll also get another tier of requiem... that every mob over level 65 is still immune to.

Thief: Mug II, essentially Mug with shield/weapon bash included. Gil Finder II, very handy since nothing in Abyssea HAS gil.

Dancer: honestly? expect a nerf.

Paladin: expect some type of JA that allows it to absorb hate from the party or else suppress hate gain by other party members; it won't work and DD will just use it as an excuse to go all out on damage... kinda like they do now in abyssea.

monk: JA Grapple, causes a bind effect with DoT-on par with Bio II, reduces enemy evasion on par with gravity

ranger: lots of needs, but I would only expect some new ammo recipies, with relatively easy ingredients. Oh, and maybe a new end-game level X-bow

corsair: SE has no idea how to make this a loved job. expect reduced price on cards and maybe something that allows you to barrage.

scholar: raisega, warpga

red mage: just another tier of elemental nukes and 1 more level of cure, MAYBE an enhanced stoneskin

white mage: a JA that allows you to remove weakness from 1 party member... by taking it on yourself. Usable only when you don't have weakness, so 5 minute recast

ninja: Utsusemi: San, 'nuff said

warrior: some type of tier 2 defender

black mage: Curse, kinda like break (a 15 second earth-based sleep), this'll essentially be like a 15 second Bad Breath

blue mage: some type of revampped 2 hour, otherwise just some heavy-duty spells, maybe 1 for much higher defense.

dark: a native refresh trait, a couple of dark based debuffs

sam: regain, prolly 1/tic

dragoon: upgrade to wyvern defense, magic defense and melee damage, nothing for the master

summoner: expect something on your bloodpact timers. Since it won't be instantaneous, expect the summoners to still bitch about it. also, expect a new avatar, prolly bahamut, at 99 only, and he'll be along the lines of Odin/Alexander- a 1 and done.

These forums are as close as we'll get to a direct line of communication with the developers. These are exactly the topics we should be hearing back from them on. SE has been far too secretive in regards to future planning in relation to jobs in particular. We get about 2 weeks notice before changes occur with major version updates. Maybe we'll get a sentence or two at a Fanfest developer panel. Perhaps it's Japanese culture or something, about saying they're planning something that they later decide against, and end up scrapping it... that they think it would be embarrassing? I think it would show good sense if they can either discard bad ideas, or run with good ones.

Keeping everything in development a secret until it has been fully developed, programmed, and then unveiled to the public before getting feedback, will continue to lead to "issues" with implementation that could have been avoided with community input. Some elements that, once programmed, are "too difficult to change" due to the extensive revisions necessary, even if they wanted to, become impossible (or not cost effective) to change.

Such posts would also drive community conversation in directions that are compatible with the vision of the development team. We've seen this in several threads on this board (too few so far, but good examples are: the crafting skill cap increase thread, the revised 2hour abilities thread, and Corsair 11 rolls thread) If players feel that the development team is taking the jobs in undesirable directions, they can get that feedback too. Without posts stating the direction and vision of the development team, players have to "assume" the direction, and make plans accordingly. They may think "Past FF games (the most logical frame of reference) have shown 'this job' to do 'this', so that's where SE must be headed. I'll play 'this job', because I enjoy that style of play. That's the direction I want to go too."

For some jobs, (like White Mage,) that's a pretty easy trend to look at... best healers in the game. Some are "balanced" already and don't want to see changes, but know they're coming anyway as the level cap keeps going to 99, (like Monk.) Some jobs have needed certain "fixes" (some small, some quite large) for a long time with no resolution within sight. (like Puppetmaster's automaton AI)

What are the developers thoughts? What are they thinking/planning? Do they acknowledge the issues at hand? (We don't even have to know what they're really "doing", but what direction they're headed would be nice.) The more detail the better. Also, the more interaction the better. Clearly it's best for them to be working on getting things into the game, but maybe they should schedule some meaningful time each week for community interaction. For all we know, maybe they already do this, but the amount of feedback that we're getting on these (English) boards leads one to think they're mainly using the boards to release "twitter-like" advertisements about upcoming version updates while giving lots of "that's too difficult/time consuming to change" answers to feedback threads, which, while quite possibly is the honest reason for the dismissal of the idea presented, makes us wonder what IS worth the time and effort? What direction ARE they going in?

Saving these revelations for version updates isn't the best idea, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Eeek

PUP and BST confuse SE too much to receive a substantive, relevant adjustment

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I've always felt that SE won't give bst significant buff because they are too concerned with making them too strong and upsetting their conception of game balance. Consequently, this fear makes them bend over backwards to make sure they don't get significant buffs. I'm not saying bst is weak, I love bst, but I do believe bst gets shafted a lot compared to other melee dds.

My prediction for bst is that by lvl 99 is that we still won't be able to charm in the prime xp area (Abyssea), they still won't have a ws better than rampage (lol at Cloudsplitter and building Farsha), and our best jug will be a damn crab again (although the vnm version would be pretty cool). Personally, I hope for an ability to charm large mob via ability or trait, or large mob jug pets but with the way SE has adjusted bst in the past, I can't see it happening. Doesn't matter though, I'll still play and love bst.

BSTs will pretty much need to accept that their future will likely lie in jugs, and to be blunt, it's for the better.

1) "Everyone who subs BST is better than BST main!"
A common argument prior to Abyssea. All you needed was your BST the same level or higher and the only real penalty you faced was not getting Leave until 70. Some need to try to get over the concept of being a WAR with a pet, too. Jugs offer a diversity WARs lack, even though Sic point costs could probably use some work.

2) "There's nothing to charm in endgame areas!"
In part, one could surmise that some NMs were isolated because SE wanted the focus to be on that mob. Could they have put non-aggro critters nearby? Perhaps. But this basically leads into the following...

3) With enough appropriately leveled mobs to throw at an NM, a BST (or group of them) is basically invincible.
This is largely why you don't see Charm as an option in Abyssea. Fast respawns, usually plenty of mobs at a camp, and you can level them up. Add a dash of Familiar and the ability to restore your 2 hour easily and BSTs could reliably hold VT+ mobs for half hour stints. Even without that, you basically reintroduce problem 1 while things like atma and temp meds further boost longevity of both the pet and master.


Jugs basically solve all three of those problems, while carrying perks like atma transfer and the ability to control TP moves used or completely dump your own enmity via Snarl. Plus you don't have to worry about claim system drama like when using Charm. Now, I know some might not like the pets available, the expense, or even Call Beast's recast timer, but if skewed too much you basically recreate problem 3, just replace charmed mob availability with as many jugs as you can carry (which can be a lot with 240 potential inventory slots).

The bowels of hell. That's where it's heading.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

You forgot about RNG DD. That's ok. So did SE.

BAZINGA!

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I think I love you lol.

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Originally Posted by AyinDygra

These forums are as close as we'll get to a direct line of communication with the developers. These are exactly the topics we should be hearing back from them on.

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You'd think so, but save for a topic on the DRG forums, I don't think the devs have actually said much of anything. Those of us with ongoing discussions *coughredmagecough* are curious to see if anyone from SE is lurking in our threads.

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

I think I love you lol.

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:o

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3) With enough appropriately leveled mobs to throw at an NM, a BST (or group of them) is basically invincible. This is largely why you don't see Charm as an option in Abyssea.

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I'd be inclined to agree with this reasoning if DD + WHM couldn't already kill everything in Abyssea, with lot sof jobs capable of soloing.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You'd think so, but save for a topic on the DRG forums, I don't think the devs have actually said much of anything. Those of us with ongoing discussions *coughredmagecough* are curious to see if anyone from SE is lurking in our threads.

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If they actually reply positively to the RDM subforum's melee crowd, I will gladly toss my Duelist's Chapeau. Destroying the most powerful mage in the game, one Accuracy buff at a time.

Beast is actually pretty good now, perhaps SE can add more DD gears and raise up a little of their damage output. Another small tweaks could be to lower the call beast timer, add more HP to jug pets, slightly raised jug pet attack, give a bit more boost to reward results, and give us stout servant 3 + 4. With those minor tweaks, BST is perfect, a DD that use pet to add overall damage output.

As for Summoner, the job is not in a really bad state. SE could tweak the duration of the buffs so that they are actually useful... make hastega last 8 minutes, stoneskin already last very long - could absorb a lot more damage, whispering wind + spring water heal at least 500-600 hp basically slightly make all of our buffs pact better and longer. Another tweak would be if you have the elemental avatar out, party would gain "bar+elemental" aura status, maybe around 30-40, not enough to offset the ones from whm but good enough as nice added bonus (and stack with WHM and BARD spell). Tweak the Avatar favor by expanding its radius to 20 yalms, and make avatar DD physical to be 15% less than normal. Summoner needs to have Auto Refresh 1-4, or give us more MP if you keep it the way it is. Give us Stout Servant 2 as job traits at 90. And lastly, make our merited tier 2 BP to be able to proc only either red or blue based on damage type (slashing, piercing, etc). At least with that, SMN can add a bit more of usefulness as buffer via BP or Avatar Favor (even just having avatar out can help give party a "bar+element" status), can do a bit of DD if needed via BP Rage, and can actually help with proc weakness.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

If they actually reply positively to the RDM subforum's melee crowd, I will gladly toss my Duelist's Chapeau. Destroying the most powerful mage in the game, one Accuracy buff at a time.

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I'd probably be so happy I'd make a tribute video. Then again, like almost everything in FFXI, there would be a "but" attached to it.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

I noticed the link you posted was from 2006.

They did one of these in 2010 as well, in case you haven;t seen it?

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=21769

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Ya I saw this one but I did not include this because it happen so fast. With the old one from 06 they at least gave time for feedback, instead of here is everything enjoy sorry if its broken and you don't like it.

Also AyinDygra post was exactly the posts I was looking for and hope SE looks at that as well.

Last, I would hope we get a type of response but in the mean time don't let this thread fall behind.

Theres a quick and dirty way to fix rng. Remove the sweet spot, add fools gold to mobs outside of unions maybe even in gold boxs. Not perfect but least haste then becomes a decent stat for them, no reason to pass them over in exp parties. Also get ride of times on blu proc or make it were 2 or 3 differnt type of WSs can proc blu at any time slot.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

:o I'd be inclined to agree with this reasoning if DD + WHM couldn't already kill everything in Abyssea, with lot sof jobs capable of soloing.

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Basically this. How could bst having charm in Abyssea areas break any type of game balance when other jobs are capable of even more broken feats (unlimited mp, sky high crit rate, empyrean weaponskills that do god-mode damage)? Last time I checked, one of the primary complaints of the community was that Abyssea nms were too easy. If this really is the case, what real advantage would bst have over other jobs in Abyssea if they had the ability to charm mobs?

I believe it's especially silly that in a zone filled with natural enemies, charm is useless. Abyssea might be the current end game loot zone but it's also the primary xp zone. It makes no sense to bsts who have leveled the old school way (charming mobs) to go into a zone slated for xp and not be able to play the game the way they have always played it. Some bsts choose the job for the sole reason they could do it solo. There's tonnes of camps in Abyssea filled with natural enemies that are never occupied because most players gravitate to camps with the easiest, least threatening mobs. Why make these camps if hardly anyone uses them? The majority of bsts would make use of these underused camps rather than popular camps in Abyssea, at least that's how old school bsts worked previously.

If its a matter of Abyssea's mechanics, i can accept that. To most bsts though, having their prime job ability stripped away from them in the premier locale for xp is a slap in the face. Putting in the same work as other empyrean weapons and having the weapon skill be barely better than our nyzul ws is a slap to the other cheek.

Even with those suggestions I don't see my linkshell using ranger in abyssea. SE would have to make it so that ranger could cover multiple reds and had atmas equivalent to the melee ones before ranger would get used for anything other than the rare blue party. It will be interesting to see if 99 is once again outside of abyssea in which case ranger might be useful for some fights again... that would be nice.

The problem as always is that half of you use "useful" as a synonym to "best". As in, all jobs are useless, except WAR+NIN+WHM because they can cover red!

A job is fine in my eyes if it gets to use its abilities. BST for example is not fine, because it doesn't get to charm. It is by no means terrible, but it isn't fine. Same with SMN that has near zero purpose to use wards or spirits. Just predator claws all day long. (Slight exaggeration). I'd actually rate RDM and DRK as jobs in need of updates as well, since RDMs are not meleeing much and DRKs aren't casting many spells.

RNG, COR and such I'd not really say have any problems. Costs gil, hard to buy ammo, doesn't do best damage, is about all negatives you can find. Nothing about the actual job is bad, just lacking gear.

I wish SE had the same focus, on fixing the things we do not use. But sadly SE is always working on adding something new (that we may or may not use). Even when it sounds like they are listening (They say they work on adding new avatars which can be kept out longer) they end up programming something completely different (2 hour avatars).

I'd love to see some actual feedback from SE though. It always seems like they avoid all threads related to job issues. I'd agree with them if there were only people here saying they wanted to be stronger, but when people complain on bad puppet spell selection, bugged spirits, lack of charm use, it isn't because we want to deal 9999 damage, it is because we want to use our abilities and spells.

Yeah there is probably a distinction between useful and best. I prefer the term waste of party space. If you have a friend and their only job is (insert your favorite job here) and you already have the jobs you need to get things done AND an extra party spot I'm sure you'll bring them along. If you need that spot for (insert required job here) you're not going to have a spot for them.

Consider another situation where player A has 1 high demand job and 4 less useful jobs... they're going to get stuck playing the useful job whether they like playing that job all the time or not while someone else in the group who only leveled useless jobs will get to play what they enjoy playing to their hearts content. I imagine that some people complaining about the versatility of some jobs vs others are stuck in this kind of a situation. Their favorite job may not see the light of day while a job that they leveled at a different time/dynamic of xi history may be all they play.

Ohhhhhh Camate!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get your butt in here and reply to this thread please!:cool:

This thread is slowly going off track. It's not about what direction of what we think the jobs are heading in...but the actual direction SE is taking them so we can actually comment on that.

A road map to jobs please!!!!!:p

All the things listed for future THF upgrades: DD enhancement at endgame, offensive perfect dodge, being able to freely manage hate (Note added after accomplice/collaborator so obviously it's not those), a new TH and a new steal.


Well, 2 useless abilities out of 5 ain't bad.

While I will refrain from making specific wish lists of my favorite pet jobs (not pet as in actual pet jobs...), it would be nice to hear from SE what they plan to do in the future about the various jobs.

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A job is fine in my eyes if it gets to use its abilities. BST for example is not fine, because it doesn't get to charm. It is by no means terrible, but it isn't fine. Same with SMN that has near zero purpose to use wards or spirits. Just predator claws all day long. (Slight exaggeration). I'd actually rate RDM and DRK as jobs in need of updates as well, since RDMs are not meleeing much and DRKs aren't casting many spells.

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no no no...dont give them any ideas, we dont want to spend all day casting, we want to toss out a few spells here and there to increase our DD and save ourselves when we take hate

what DRK needs is to actually be able to DD again, its sad my randomly geared DNC out DDs my Quietus DRK, and DNC is terrible DD compared to WAR MNK NIN

I think blood pacts should implement a charge system to give you more freedom over their timing.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

no no no...dont give them any ideas, we dont want to spend all day casting, we want to toss out a few spells here and there to increase our DD and save ourselves when we take hate

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What DRK in part needs is much shorter cast times. Most DRK spells should be around the same cast time as Stun to minimize melee time lost. While I'd love an enmity drop spell, I don't think any job would get something like that.

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

Dear SE, I was wondering if you can tell us what direction the ffxi jobs are heading in?

A link to great examples you given us in the past.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/top.../060330_1.html

Thanks for taking the time to read this.:cool:

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I never saw that post on POL, and that is something that I definitely agree would great to see more of. Some jobs have a serious lack of direction, which I think is the basis for a lot of complaints whether it's realized or not.

Dark Knight is a good example of this. The recent adjustments were fantastic, since DRK's inability to...use its abilities...was a glaring problem. However, I think that instead of delicately trying to make DRK DD exactly like a WAR but different, a unique role should be defined. Stun Knight only has Stun and Weapon Bash...and Absorb Spells + Useless Elemental magic isn't worth much.

Summoner is still struggling for its identity, but progress has been made here, too. Splitting Blood Pacts was a definite step in the right direction, but secretly I think the most exciting adjustment for SMN was Avatar's Favor. SMNs should bring some unique benefits to a party, but most importantly SMNs should be encouraged to have their avatars out somehow.

Paladin has no lack of identity, but out of all jobs it's probably struggling the most right now. There needs to be some serious consideration of PLDs as soon as possible. This seems like a tough problem that has a solution somewhere within the game's mechanics and not within the job itself.

Thief is rocking Abyssea, and has also gotten some great attention with respect to its role in a party. THFs can chime in here and disagree if I'm wrong, but this seems like one job that SE has done very well with over the past few years.

Dragoon is another job that proves SE can fix things.

Ranger is one job that shows how SE can break things. This job needs perhaps one more layer to it. It used to be the job that you throw gil into for damage, now it's just the job that you throw gil into.

Well said Selzak!

Anyone that thinks DRK needs a lot now is just wrong. The Last resort buff essentially makes them the strongest DD in the game outside abyssea , and a competitive one inside, unless you have a BRD/WHM + DNC in the party as well. If they really want to make a strong boost to DRK's magical side, they could boost Absorb spells. f they made Absorb Spells last 3 minutes and have the boosted stat remain static instead of decaying constantly, the effects would actually be worth casting the spells.

SMN has found its place in my opinion. You're a defensive support job that throws out supplemental damage. Earthen Armor with Scherzo is an amazing combo and is extremely effective for new NMs and Voidwatch. The fact you can solo well and have strong bursts of magic and physical damage types is a blessing people need to take advantage of.

PLD also has benefited. The addition of mobs that hit very hard, have high accuracy, and strip shadows, make them more desirable. If SE keeps the newer, more difficult fights churning out, we'll see PLD return in a real tanking role. The fact they made the recent VIT change was a precursor telling us of their intention.

THF is another example of SE getting it right. THFs wanted to be allowed to melee/DD on bigger mobs. SE made it so they would be encouraged to melee by making TH effects build as they do damage. To get rid of that pesky "THFs feed the mob too much TP" argument, they made AGI, a stat THFs have good amounts of, lower the TP given to mobs per hit, and release tons of good Subtle Blow gear, especially in slots that won't eat up Haste gear. The THF adjustment is probably my favorite adjustment as they fixed THF by not just giving boosts by damage, but by increasing its own unique way of contributing to groups.

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Originally Posted by Return1

SMN has found its place in my opinion. You're a defensive support job that throws out supplemental damage. Earthen Armor with Scherzo is an amazing combo and is extremely effective for new NMs and Voidwatch. The fact you can solo well and have strong bursts of magic and physical damage types is a blessing people need to take advantage of.

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I'll just reply to this one because your saying all the jobs you listed don't need adjutments.

With smn yes everybody I'm sure is blessed by what they have atm, you can't hurt a job by giving it another tool in the bag. The goal again is to see if SE will respond and tell us what they somewhat have in store in the future for the jobs. Its better to see what they say if they say anything so we can comment on that instead of making stuff up based on where we think the job is heading, granted I'm sure most guessing are right but they are only guesses.

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Originally Posted by Return1

PLD also has benefited. The addition of mobs that hit very hard, have high accuracy, and strip shadows, make them more desirable. If SE keeps the newer, more difficult fights churning out, we'll see PLD return in a real tanking role. The fact they made the recent VIT change was a precursor telling us of their intention.

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good luck selling that one to the player-base that already "knows" better. Honestly, the Abyssea content has been as devastating to paladin as the old XP penalty being published in an early how-to guide was to beast. They removed it in year 2 or 3 of release but we beasts still get crap about it. Paladin is going to take almost as long to recover from Abyssea, and the 75-90 boosts to other jobs. This is all barring some radical redesign of the game.

Not with me mind you, having played some jobs that have long been discriminated against I've gotten used to doing things in ways other than the cookie-cutter approaches on wiki and alla, so I know there are other ways to get things done. Paladins are welcome in my parties, just not in a DD role.

Even the guys at BG were talking bout how they found PLD useful for the newer NMs and voidwatch. PLD will become more desirable because SE is designing more PLD friendly fights. High Accuracy means eva tanks lose their main advantage. Real hard hitters remove something like WHM+WAR/SAM tanking it from 100% to dead. The ability to strip shadows, like spamming ga spells, or AoE melee attacks. No 20mp a tick in Atmas helps too.

I will not be surprised when the next tier of Voidwatch scheduled to come out in the August update, and new NMs they'll add to the next revamped system, makes PLD important again.

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pup: the only things we can be absoutely certain of; whm AI will never be fixed, scanner will never be made to function, rdm pup will remain capped at level 72 and harlequin at 50.

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Um, harle/rdm are not capped to those levels. not learning more magic != capped. Scanner already functions, it just doesn't do what we want it to do. WHM AI isn't broken, strictly speaking, though the majority of us would like some changes to its default behavior.

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Originally Posted by Return1

Even the guys at BG were talking bout how they found PLD useful for the newer NMs and voidwatch. PLD will become more desirable because SE is designing more PLD friendly fights. High Accuracy means eva tanks lose their main advantage. Real hard hitters remove something like WHM+WAR/SAM tanking it from 100% to dead. The ability to strip shadows, like spamming ga spells, or AoE melee attacks. No 20mp a tick in Atmas helps too.

I will not be surprised when the next tier of Voidwatch scheduled to come out in the August update, and new NMs they'll add to the next revamped system, makes PLD important again.

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While part of me agrees with you, Voidwatch has been a drop in the sea known as post-Abyssea FFXI. Really, the system is so incomplete and rewards so few it has failed to even divert the smallest iota of attention away from Abyssea.

Really it's starting to smell like VNMs all over again.