I try to test it but I am confused how to make SC...
I am good with MB but not familiar at all with SC (because I only have mage jobs)
So I am trying to understand how to make Immanence to work I don't know what element after WS to use to make SC. Tried to read table SC chart but still noob.
I check WS it said element of that WS and Properties of WS (that I don't understand)
anyone give me example to make it with WS? so I can understand.
and another question is Immanence can use to be open SC? or have to be close one?
and anotehr question is 1 SCH can make SC by itself with 2-3 Immanence ? and close with MB (without Immanence) it self too?
Immanence for Skill chain
Printable View
-
04-16-2011, 02:27 PMMomotarotaruImmanence for Skill chain
-
04-16-2011, 11:06 PMDiska
I hope expressions below make sense and work for you.
(my English skill and FFXI's English terms do not allow me to explain in plain English.)
note: Descriptions and names below are not (possibly) standard,
or are not commonly used by people(also not for Jp players). Just for this entry.
###### Notation ######
収縮=闇=Dk=Compression
貫通=光=Li=Transfixion
振動=水=Wa=Reverberation
硬化=氷=Ic=Induration
衝撃=雷=Th=Impaction
溶解=炎=Fi=Liquefaction
切断=土=Ea=Scision
炸裂=風=Wi=Detonation
###### Lv1 Chains ######
'Straight' 8-Chain route:
Dk>Li>Wa>Ic>Th>Fi>Ea>Wi
'Reverse' route:
Fi<Ea<Wi
Dk<Li
'Irregular' route:
Ea>Wa>Th
Ic>Dk
######Lv2 Chain######
Fi>Th>>[LiFi]===[Fusion]
Ic>Wa>>[WiTh]===[Fragmentation]
Li>Ea>>[IcWa]===[Distortion]
Wi>Dk>>[EaDk]===[Gravitation]
###### Lv2 Chains ######
[Lv2]>[Lv2]>>nothing or Lv2 or Lv3
Sorry, I'm not familiar with which is which.
###### Lv3 Chains ######
[IcWa]+[EaDk]>>[[IcWaEaDk]]
[LiFi]+[WiTh]>>[[LiFiWiTh]]
############
e.g.
(Immanence+Fire)>Rock Crusher>>[Fusion]
=Fi>Th>>[LiFi]
(Immanence+Fire)>(Immanence+Thunder)>>[Fusion]
=Fi>Th>>[LiFi]
(Immanence+Stone)>(Immanence+Fire)>(Immanence+Thunder)>>[Fusion]
corresponds to (possibly) well-known SC,
"Fast Blade>Red Lotus Blade>Combo>>[Fusion]"
=Ea>Fi>Th>>[LiFi]
and you can do FireII MB also. -
04-17-2011, 02:13 AMMerton9999
I'll throw out a couple examples I use. I have an extraordinary amount of fun with this new ability.
First to answer some of your questions. Immanence can be used to both open and close an SC. It can also be used to solo any SC if used twice, once before each spell. Immanence is NOT required to MB off of your SC, and in fact if you use Immanence before a spell, you will not be able to MB with it, as per the ability description.
All of the following scenarios work:
1. Immanence + your spell
2. Your own WS
1. Immanence + your spell
2. Another player's WS
1. Your own WS
2. Immanence + your spell
1. Another player's WS
2. Immanence + your spell
1. Immanence + your spell
2. Immanence + your spell
1. Immanence from another SCH + their spell
2. Immanence from you + your spell
1. Immanence from you + your spell
2. Immanence from another SCH + their spell
To get it to work right, first you need the right timing. This just requires practice but the window is pretty large. If I'm soloing an SC using two spells, first I use Immanence then cast the first spell. When my on-screen character's arms come down from the cast, I hit Immanence again, then immediately start casting the next spell. If I want to create a level 3 with Retribution or Black Halo, I wait until right at the end of the first SC animation to hit the WS macro. If I'm doing spell + my own WS, I wait about 3 seconds after the spell animation to hit the WS macro. I also have some macros just for making my own SC. Here's a basic example:
/ja "Immanence" <me> <wait 1>
/ma "Fire" <t> <wait 5>
/ja "Immanence" <me> <wait 1>
/ma "Thunder IV" <t>
You may have to play with the wait numbers, and vary them based on your first spell, but for me 5 seconds works well for tier 1, 8 seconds if I open with tier 3.
Second, you have to use the right elements. Disak gave a great example of the combinations. I used the skillchain chart on wiki. I never played a melee job before this so I had to stare at the chart a bit to understand it too. The chart does not contain SCH spells, but basically you just look at the element picture behind the set of WS's and pick a combination of spells and WS of those elements. For example, the label on the chart for Distortion shows it being created from Light, then Earth, so use Luminohelix, Stone. The chart shows Fragmentation coming from the ice picture then water picture, so use Blizzard + Water to make fragmentation. Here are some examples:
Immanence + Luminohelix
Immanence + Stone III
>>>>> Distortion
You can then MB any Water or Blizzard spell afterward. If you want to MB with a tier V spell, you will need to follow the SC with Alacrity before casting. I believe the same is also required of tier IV spells. I generally MB this with Cryohelix, for which I use Ebullience. Alacrity is not required to MB Helices on your own SC.
Immanence + Fire
Immanence + Thunder IV
>>>> Fusion
MB with Fire of any level or Luminohelix
Immanence + Luminohelix
Immanence + Stone III
>>>> Distortion
Retribution (Gravitation = Dark + Earth)
>>>> Darkness
Immanence + Fire
Immanence + Thunder IV
>>>> Fusion
Black Halo (Fragmentation = Thunder + Wind)
>>>> Light
Immanence + Fire IV
True Strike
>>>> Fusion
Now for some mechanical stuff. First, if you're in a large party or alliance, the timing can be rough because other players are constantly spamming their WS's, which will interrupt your SC. If you want to practice this, I suggest soloing for a while on a set of EP mobs to get the timing and combinations down. For me, the potential to solo Light and Darkness made me excited about finally getting Black Halo and Retribution, so I practiced using Immanence just to break the latent effect on the trial weapons. After that I've never had any trouble with timing.
Another annoyance may be the absence of the spell or initial SC animation due to gear swaps. If I or another player near me swaps gear, the game will not show the animation for the spell or SC and it throws my timing off. I got used to putting only equip swaps that don't require blinking into my Immanence spell and WS macros. For other gear I'll swap it with separate macro before casting. This gear blinking will also occasionally prevent the chat log notification of the SC as well as the animation, so it may not look like it worked at all when it actually did. When you're practicing, this is another reason I suggest doing it solo, and to also avoid equip swaps in your macros at first.
Hope that helps! Again go practice by soloing. Grab some EP+ stuff so you don't kill them with your first SC :) I used Kuftal Tunnel crabs to break latents and practice this. You asked specifically about making an SC with a WS, so to keep it simple, just start with Immanence + fire, wait three seconds after fire casts, then hit a True Strike macro. You'll get Fusion :) Don't forget Adloquium so you can use True Strike faster! -
04-17-2011, 04:59 PMMomotarotaru
Thank you Guys now I understand chart more. Very nice explanation and example.
Time to test and play with it.
^^; -
04-25-2011, 04:43 AMRambus
back in 2004 I told people how to SC and i end up memerzing the chart so i do not get "i only have mage jobs so i do not know how SC works"
anyways Immanence just makes your spells mimic the equilvent level 1 sc properties:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vWihfifjey...spirascv25.jpg
you can make more then one SC too like if you use it with stone V you are putting scisson property on the mob
then you can use water V for reveration, then blizzard IV for indutation then water IV for fragmentation.
Here is to show it in game i was showing someone in game that you can do sc after sc like on the chart:
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/8866/scs.jpg
notice the climb in sc damage.
the first level 1 sc is 50% of spell, then 60% then the level 2 is 100%
when you do sc after sc it climbs.
SC damage can also be patted with weather/day/ staff/ etc:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9241/aerovscresize.jpg
onscrean damage is 3893 detonation
4871 (.50)> 2435 (SCH hands bonus1.10)>2678 (1.10 klimaform boots bonus)> 2945 > staff bonus (1.15)>3386 > (1.15, cape and weather)> 3893.
that is why, otherwise it would be 2435 normally. -
04-29-2011, 09:10 PMEinalem
Staff and Club are SCH stronger weapons. Here are some sequences for 5/5 Stratagem use magic and Weapon Skills that will allow for Magic Burst. I've listed Spell level as X so you can chose the tier you want. If you're worried about melee accuracy, Bream Sushi. You should be able to macro up to Alacrity with a space open for an /echo to hit the button again and a macro book swap for the rest of the skills/spells for a two button lvl 3 w/ Magic Burst. I haven't tested yet as I am still working on both Omniscience and Black Halo, but I'm more than happy to repost when I do.
Dark Skill Chain (Staff)
Immanence > Luminohelix > Immanence > Alacrity > Stone X > Alacrity > Ebullience > Omniscience > Stone X/Water X/Blizzard X/Drain
Light Skill Chain (Club)
Immanence > Fire X > Immanence > Alacrity > Thunder X > Alacrity > Ebullience > Black Halo > Aero X/Fire X/Thunder X/Luminohelix -
04-30-2011, 07:49 AMRambusI go by " fish for a man, feed him for a day, teach the man to fish, feed them for a lifetime"Quote:
Originally Posted by Einalem
point in saying this is i would advice people look at the chart to come up with thier own scs with ws if they wish but alas sch melee is like the last thing you want to do, it has lowest skill out of all the jobs.
for anyone with that relic ws club in abyssea you can extand your skillchain:
Light Skill Chain (Club)
Immanence > Fire X > Immanence > Alacrity > Thunder X > Alacrity > Ebullience > Black Halo > (cast Aero X/Fire X/Thunder X/Luminohelix for mb) > relic ws and see if you can alacrity anther mb or just mb off this one, making muli scs increases mb bonus
I would not advice it but could be some fun i guess -
05-02-2011, 12:01 AMPebe
If you are trying to break omniscience it is extremely easy with immanence.
Immanence >>> Luminohelix >> Immanence >>> Stone (I used stone 1 for mp so i could spam it) >>> Distortion >>> Retribution >> Darkness.
Make sure to not use retribution before you see the animation for distortion go off or it will not work. In abyssea using VV, MM, and apoc, I managed to get off two darkness skillchains a mob. It went really fast. Btw, Omniscience does pretty decent damage when you gear your atmas for it, might not be a bad brew ws. -
05-24-2011, 12:00 AMEinalem
Although you will probably never use this subjob:
Confirmed DNC Skillchain Bonus when set as a sub will apply to Immanence Skillchains for 8% damage bonus.
(Disclaimer: You lose 24 MAB for subbing this over BLM or RDM, though) -
05-24-2011, 02:53 AMSaefinn
Awesome tips. I did manage to get my head around the skillchain charts, but it's good to have some SCH specific examples going. I've self skillchained with my own WS and a spell, but I think next I'll experiment with spell only ones because it's not always viable to stand too closely to a mob when you're a mage. Things like this just make me a SCH fanboy.
-
05-30-2011, 08:33 PMCymminaI understand the desire to create advanced skill chains as SCH, but it's the worst route you can take. Yes, light and darkness skill chains do 100% of the closing ability's damage (barring resists), but you lose out on obis giving you day/weather boost and staff bonus. That's right, skill chains get staff bonus. They also get day/weather bonus *and* Klimaform bonus when using Savant's Loafers +1/2. That means you want to use level 1 skill chains. Anything else is a waste of stratagems and you would be better off just using Ebullience on your best damage spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einalem
http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/56871 -
05-31-2011, 09:38 PMEinalem
True, but you also have latents and trials that do care about closing skillchains. This shows how you can attain certain levels using SCH. Its better to have the information and know it's limitations than it is to dissmiss it off the cuff.
I can understand mentioning the staff bonus, becuase changing staff will reset TP to 0, but you can change Obis in between.
Also, these are all tools. Knowing the correct tool for the job can help with specific goals. The situation you are using your tools for general nuking. I can understand wanting the Staff bonuses per nuke there, because it will be a majority of what a nuking SCH does. But what if your goal is to max a Helix? (God knows that's one of the things I want to do with SCH!) Spec for the Helix weather, build up to a lvl 3 Chain and let the Helix fly. Heaven forbid our nerfed Modus Veritas lands afterwards. /squee! -
05-31-2011, 10:24 PMDhragon
When doing the spell > spell > weaponskill darkness skillchain, does both of the produced skillchains count for the points for breaking latents? Will that be worth 8 points (distortion & darkness) or just 5 points for darkness?
-
06-01-2011, 05:26 AMDaniel_HatcherIf I remember correctly only the skillchain caused by the weapon counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhragon
-
07-23-2011, 12:43 AMRambus
Only thing that counts is what the ws closes.
I know where you are going, yeah overall doing a multi chain like that is a waste of resources, but you are incorrect in saying the skillchain damage is 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymmina
a level 3 is only 100% when there is only 2 ws to make it and there is no potency bonuses, there is a lot of ways to increase skillchain damage. if you do a fragmentation > light, that base for that level 3 is 150% and other potency bonuses like day. weather, SCH boots under our af spell can boost it.
I point you back to this:
Level 3s get those bonuses if that element triggers on the mob, there is few rules on what element lands for the damage though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambus
-
07-30-2011, 12:43 AMCymminaWhat is this? No seriously, what is this? Your burst damage multiplier only cares how many steps there are in the skill chain, not what level it is. You do know that there is a difference, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Einalem
Are you confused? I said nothing about multistep skill chains, only that you should stick to level 1s. Stone > Aero > Stone is a 3-step Scission and it is still only a level 1 skill chain!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambus
Let me introduce you to our level 2 skill chains:
Liquefaction + Impaction = Fusion, closes with Lightning and the element is Fire/Light. Missing out on weather and staff bonus for either the closing spell or the skill chain.
Induration + Reverberation = Fragmentation, closes with Water and the element is Thunder/Wind. Again, missing out on weather and staff bonus. Even worse, you're limited to using Windstorm because Thunderstorm will hurt your closing spell's damage (not a problem at 90, since our highest spell is Aero V, but it is likely that Thunder V is still in the cards for 99).
Detonation + Compression = Gravitation, closes with Dark with a Dark/Earth element. Finally, a chain that lets us close with the same element as the chain itself! Unfortunately, it requires Impact or Noctohelix. Impact is fine I guess. I don't have it so I don't know how it compares in damage to our other spells, but helix spells are terrible to close skill chains with due to their low initial damage.
Transfixion + Scission = Distortion, closes with Earth with a Water/Ice element. This can only be opened with Luminohelix, and again you give up staff and weather bonus for either the closing spell or the chain itself.
All of the other level 2 skill chain possibilities require the closing ability to have 2 elements, which SCH cannot do using Immanence.
The only way we are doing level 3 skill chains is by closing with a WS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEcEi7zOaBU (not my video)
You're giving up your first 2 spell's damage so you can get TP for your WS (or you're stuck relying on wings/Shikikoyo). Brilliant! The damage on the video isn't very impressive despite being up against EP, but she doesn't appear to be maximizing her WS damage either (no weather, no gear swaps, etc.).
Of course level 2 and level 3 skill chains get all the bonuses that level 1's get, but you are crippling your damage output by going after them due to the limitations SCH has to live with. If you do a nice neat 2-step Detonation with Thunder IV and Aero IV, you can follow it up with a bursted Ebullience Aero V or Amenohelix. Your closing spell, skill chain, and bursted spell are all the same element (allowing you to easily take advantage of staff/day/weather bonuses). This maximizes your damage more than a 3-step anything else using the same number of Strategems. -
08-03-2011, 12:07 AMAhranaI always preferred "make a man a fire keep him warm for the night, set a man on fire keep him warm for the rest of his life."Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambus
-
03-25-2012, 03:32 AMKimjongilCan we update this list
We now have the club WS's "Flash Nova" Catastrophic and Shattersoul.
What Solo Skillchains ca we use to take advantage of these.
I am guessing if I solo darkness SC I can WS Catastrophic to MB.
As for shattersoul, What skillchain do I haveto make to close with shattersoul?
Thanks
Luminhelix + stone + shattersoul = Darkness. -
03-26-2012, 02:56 AMKokorololiEither you didn't read the thread or the info you want (level 3 skillchains) isn't here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimjongil
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Skillchain
Please read it and learn how to skillchain.
But if you're looking for good damage, please read the thread. Or just Cymmina's post two posts above yours. -
09-26-2012, 12:16 AMRambus
Well since it was still on the first page, I like to clear up something:
I am not confused, you said darkness is 100% damage and I was just telling you that is not always the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymmina
Of course level 1s are better for SCH because of the reasons you said, but I was not talking about that. When I talked about my level 1 sc damage I thought that message was implied anyway. (Also said earlier doing level 3s and so on was more for fun) -
01-20-2013, 06:40 AMKeylnNo, I wasn't trying to maximize damage in that video. All I was doing was showing how a level 3 skillchain (in this case, darkness) could be done using Immanence. Wasn't trying to do impressive amounts of damage really. In fact, I was avoiding doing gear swaps just to demonstrate how it's done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymmina
-
01-20-2013, 08:33 PMDelvish
Just want to mention with the upcoming casting time adjustments to elemental magic, doing higher tier magic SC/MB will be even easier.
-
01-24-2013, 01:15 AMEzikiel
i want to make empyrean staff to be able to SC with immanence
-
06-16-2013, 05:42 PMDaemonWouldn't it be better to use shattersoul after distortion for darkness skillchain? ;oQuote:
Originally Posted by Einalem
With Delve staff, Shattersoul is INT based ws so there is a lot of gear to help increase dmg.
I've done over 12k skillchain on Mikey in la worm camp