FFXI sold quite well on Xbox 360 but the biggest problem is that the Japanese players hate playing games on PC. They are very much a console or nothing playerbase.
What do you expect player numbers to be like when the JP FFXI payerbase is decimated in March due to closure of service for Xbox and Ps2?
PS2 and Xbox 360 FFXI shutdown
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05-19-2015, 04:19 AMCastanicaPS2 and Xbox 360 FFXI shutdown
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05-19-2015, 04:25 AMRoja323
Well JP has universally hated Xbox, xbox 360, and xbox one. So americans might have liked 11 on the xbox, but i doubt many jp bought it.
I think people way over estimate the numbers of people on ps2/xbox. If it was more than 5% of the total population i would be shocked. -
05-19-2015, 04:27 AMCastanicaI think it's probably around 50 to 75% of the JP playerbase, keep in mind Square refused to stop support for PS2 because it was a big enough portion of players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roja323
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05-19-2015, 04:39 AMRoja323
Well the key here is "you think' vs 'i think'... to square a 5% player base could have been enough for them to justify not getting rid of it.
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05-19-2015, 04:42 AMbungiefanNA
http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles...mmo-mans-land/
Japanese people generally have a perception of PCs as a machine they use at work, not at home. Mobile phones for internet access, and consoles/arcades for games, are what they overwhelmingly use. Many JP PC game developers are small indie companies, like ZUN for Touhou, or the company that makes Melty Blood. Visual novels are a big thing on PC, but not much else. Japanese cell phones have been much more internet-capable than ours for years longer. Cell phone games were amazing there in the late 90s and early 2000s, before smartphones really became a thing here. -
05-19-2015, 04:56 AMCastanicaWell WoW refused to release in Japan because the pc mmo market was way too small. FFXIV sold almost laughably badly on PC compared to PS3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roja323
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05-19-2015, 08:18 AMAlhanelemActually the portion of players on consoles (the ps2 much more so than the xbox) is much smaller than the PC population- Even in Japan at this point most likely. Either they're on PC or on a backwards compatible PS3 since it's hard to even find a fully functional PS2 with hard drive anymore. Pulling the plug on PS2 specifically probably results from earlier surveys they did gauging how many players are on PC vs PS2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanica
Also your assertion that Japanese gamers are all console or nothing is not nearly as true as you think it is. There are a number of popular MMOs and online games on PC that are successful over there. Probably most notable being Monster Hunter Frontier which has had something like 20 expansions over the years.
It's more likely there was just not enough interest in the game itself.Quote:
Well WoW refused to release in Japan because the pc mmo market was way too small.
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05-19-2015, 08:28 AMbungiefanNA
In the US it's hard to find a HDD-compatible PS2 and a hard drive, because compatible PS2s were only made from 2000 until 2004, and HDDs were only distributed for 9 months in 2004, then the slim came out and they stopped restocking both. In Japan, they continued to make model 50000s and HDDs until at least 2010, and the HDD released in 2001. There is a much larger supply in circulation in Japan, and they had more games with support. Nobunaga's Ambition Online (A KOEI MMORPG that was on PC, PS2, PS3, and PS4 in Japan, and is still running) only shut down PS2 service in about 2011 or 2012, and added PS4 support within the past year or so. Supply of working systems in Japan is not a problem.
Part of WoW's issue is that localization of Western games into Japanese is still about as terrible as localization of Japanese games to English was in the SNES-era. The translations they get tend to get suck. Another issue is lack of appeal to the art style in their culture. Another issue is that MMORPG is not a widely-known term in Japan. Online games is the most specific the genre tends to get in popular knowledge. With such high population density, their culture has been able to keep arcades alive, and is used to being face-to-face with other players. -
05-19-2015, 09:26 AMZeargi
Personally, I'd just love for the game to get a digital download for the PS4 so other can continue to play it that way. FFXIV won't come to Xbox as long as they want their own servers, but people say the Phil Spencer is a decent person that cares about games. So if they move to have a joint venture in this again, the could also move FFXI to the Xbone. The console market is still alive for the time being. But those are just my feelings about it. I'll keep playing on my Xbox for as long as I can.
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05-19-2015, 10:09 AMbungiefanNA
Porting the game to a more current console would require them to invest more resources. The last time they did it, the game was 4 years old, in 2006, not 13 years old, with most of the old devs still available for the port. DQX and FFXIV, both are younger games, and would be better to invest in porting.
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05-19-2015, 12:13 PMZeargiI know it's more than likely not going to happen, they have FFXIV on the PS4 already, and it's the new flavor of MMO with the FF brand. I was just saying that I would personally enjoy the broadening of people that could join the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by bungiefanNA
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05-19-2015, 05:41 PMCastanicaYou guys need to stop using age as a negative, the 2 most powerful and massive mmo titles in the world are world of warcraft and lineage 1. Both of these games are of a similar age, nothing new even holds a tiny flame to these games. I can't think of one single modern mmo that is anywhere near as successful as old titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by bungiefanNA
The problem is that Square did a simple calculation, they removed all console players from the subscriber base and calculated that the amount of money they would make from subs from what is left was not enough to make the programming rework worth while.
It doesn't matter that FFXI is one of their most profitable games ever, they only care about money now.
As such, if players and Square accepted f2p it would not be so easy for them to do a simple number crunch and see the game as no longer being viable. The behemoth outfits show they can make cosmetics, so why not sell those in a cash shop? People will buy them.
FFXI players and the developer not wanting to evolve will lead to the death and removal of Vanadiel from the gaming world forever in a couple of years, which is incredibly sad :( -
05-19-2015, 07:16 PMvienne
Why did you even start 2 threads to advertise your f2p idea? You really have a strange fascination with the words "death" and "evolve".... I really dont enjoy being rude, but please, just go play your awesome f2p games. Starting another topic on exactly the same subject like your other f2p thread but giving it a vaguely different title is just low and makes me wonder bout the average IQ of our playerbase. You have planted your seeds give it time and see what grows of it.
You say things as "save the glory or w/e of ffxi lets go f2p" Sorry, but the glory of fffxi is partially the fact that it is not f2p.
If ffxi has to go nothing will stop that, not even a cashshop. I'd rather see the game die the way i've always known it then that it would cater to the f2p locust and get its life stretched till the next shinie game with big breasts and cosmetic buyables is released. -
05-19-2015, 07:26 PMCastanicaWhy are you afraid of my opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by vienne
The general section of this forum gets about 5 posts a day so why does my opinion bother you so much? Don't read it if you don't like it?
However at the end of the day unless ffxi changes it will go the way of pso, in that it will no longer exist in a pretty short amount of time. Players that would rather see a game die than for it to change are not fans of a game at all. -
05-20-2015, 02:20 AMZeargi"If you love something let it go." I am not a fan of f2p or Pay to Win games. The thing that makes this game amazing is that the field starts steep, but eventually levels out as you grow. I buy a game to play it, not be nickled and dimed at content that should be included - I.E.: EA Sports and Ubisoft. Preserving something as a complete entity versus raping and whoring it out, is a far greater love and respect for the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanica
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05-20-2015, 02:27 AMIsal
Between Grand Masters and FFXI mobile, Vana'diel is unlikely to "disappear foreverz" and/or "die". Like it or not, even if Grand Masters never makes it outside of Japan and FFXI got scrubbed, Vana'diel would still technically exist. I could even take the sappy route and talk about how it'll live on in the memories of its fans and the stories they've told and will likely continue to tell online.
If you feel that these mobile games don't "count" and that memories aren't enough, well, I respect your opinion and those who share it, but that's really all we're left with: our opinions. In the end, FFXI is Square Enix's property and they have every right to do with it as they see fit. -
05-20-2015, 03:03 AMCastanicaThe vast majority of f2p games are not p2w, they simply sell outfits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeargi
It boils down to how much you trust Square Enix, it seems you don't trust them at all?
A phone app game will be like FFXI in name only, you've played current gen phone games right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Isal
The point is why knowingly take a stance on something that will kill the game, if you care enough about it not want it to have a cash shop attached then should you care more to stop it dissapearing for good? When ffxi is closes will you go play ffxiv because I can tell you right now there is no game that plays like ffxi in existence, so it's this or wow type mmo titles. If you do move to ffxiv you will enjoy the cash shop it has?
We aren't talking about 4 years ago when ffxi was a solid game and players could afford to be stuck in there ways, ffxi will be unable to last far into 2016 with no updates and no console players. Square also don't care about the game, right now it's nothing more than a hinderance.
Evolve or die is the real deal. Everquest would not exist today if not for swapping to f2p, same for many many other great mmo worlds that many players love.
Quite how someone can spend 5-10 years on a game and happily let it die when the possible cure is right infront of them is beyond me.
The wakeup call for everyone will be on march of 2016, after months of no updates and the final closure of all console players reality will kick in like a mule. -
05-20-2015, 03:25 AMIsal
Mobile doesn't = phone like it used to. In this day and age, tablets are included as well, given they are mobile devices. I've played some free MMORPGs (Full 3D/free camera angle and all) on my tablet, and while the platform definitely seemed capable, the game obviously lacked a story as enjoyable as FFXI's. Given I can get FFXI to run just fine on an old netbook that's weaker than my tablet, I see no reason why I wouldn't enjoy FFXI mobile based solely on the concept of "because it's mobile".
I haven't made a stance against the current FFXI going F2P, but I haven't decided to condemn FFXI Mobile without having seen it either. -
05-20-2015, 03:59 AMZeargiTrust of SE has nothing to do with, my problems of trust falls on to the players. People's over-eagerness to fork over money on things like a 'costume,' might seem small, but you can't fault a company for peoples lax of restraint. You drop $1.99 here, or 2.50 there... suddenly the expansion of what becomes 'sell-able' comes into question. "Why can't I buy X?" "Please let me me purchase Y." DCU, Diablo 3, Elderscrolls Online, Star Wars... Most of these are games with nothing more than surface fluff. While not all Subscriptions mean 100% Goodness, as FFXIV can attest to that. But when extra money comes into play, things don't stay sacred for long...Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanica
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05-20-2015, 05:07 AMCastanicaShow me a mobile or tablet game (they are the same because devs dont' split them) that is even 1/2 of the complexity of a real mmorpg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isal
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05-20-2015, 08:14 AMIsalHearthstone released on Android/iOS tablets first, and then phones on the same platforms a few months later, and Hearthstone is a card game, not an MMORPG, so tablets and phones have indeed been split for the same game before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanica
I'm fairly sure if I even went to the trouble of finding an MMORPG to show you, you would nitpick it apart. They're F2P MMORPGs by no-name companies, so of course none of them are going to hold a candle to a 13 year old MMORPG that's maintained its subscription system to this day.
Again, you're entitled to your opinion just as much as I am to mine, but from where I'm standing, it just seems like you're trying to use the past to -prove- the future before it comes to pass. I never said "FFXI Mobile will be a perfect replacement", there's no way for me to know; however, you're essentially saying "FFXI Mobile WILL be utter garbage".
"All the games I've seen on mobile platforms did not meet my personal standards, therefore, NO mobile platform games will EVER meet my standards." That's a pretty limiting view, and perhaps explains why you're so vehemently trying to avoid any form of change with this game outside of the subscription system. There's other games out there, life goes on. Your point of view doesn't overwrite the views of those who disagree with you any more than theirs overwrites yours. No wake-up call is necessary, I haven't seen anyone state that they expect the game to last indefinitely as it is now after November comes to pass. Putting 5-10 years into a game shouldn't somehow mean you're honor-bound to fight tooth and nail to keep the game going as-is until you die... -
05-20-2015, 06:58 PMStompaI wish I had the confidence to make those kind of predictions. I played PSO quite a lot, it was fun in a casual pew-pew-pew kind of way, annoying with the linear stuff and some very tedious puzzle assignments. But I enjoyed playing it, in short bursts. I felt immensely unconnected to my character, there was no roleplaying bond between me and my pew-pew-pew arcade puppet as we went obediently marching on through the linear progression systems. I know that PSO had a big following and many people loved it, and thats cool. I just didn't find that it had the staying power to hold me for more than a few weeks at a time.Quote:
However at the end of the day unless ffxi changes it will go the way of pso, in that it will no longer exist in a pretty short amount of time.
So I see zero similarity between PSO and FFXI, seriously. FFXI has a lot of classic RPG elements, and I feel a deep bond with my character. The game world is not linear, any time I log into FFXI, I have this huge long list of possiblities open to me, it is the opposite of linear gaming.
So I think it is a mistake to say that FFXI will inevitably share the same fate as PSO. Thats like saying Pulp Fiction shared the same fate as The Postman. After all, they are both Hollywood movies, they both had their heyday moment at the Cinema a long time ago, they're both really ancient now. But one of them is a Cult Classic, with millions of fans worldwide, merchandise, re-screenings etc. And the other one was just forgotten as quickly as possible. So it would be wrong to say that all products aimed at certain groups, or available on certain media, will age the same way or command the same cult following years later. -
05-20-2015, 07:49 PMCastanicaThe point was, PSO was killed by Sonic Team because they don't care about anything other than money. You think Square couldn't program up a new dev system for continuing to add content to FFXI if they wanted to? It's not anywhere near as big a project as they would make you think. If you want to play PSO now, you can't because it's gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stompa
Same will happen to FFXI in a couple of years, all because players are too short sighted and the developers (who could probably be persuaded) don't care enough to worry about it.
In a couple of years when FFXI no longer exists players will probably wished they would of done what Everquest fans did and accepted f2p so that their game was still around, by then it will be too late.
All we will have is a p2w phone app with annoying popup ads by one of the worst phone app companies in existence, running a mockery of a once amazing one of a kind mmorpg.
Sad days. -
05-20-2015, 08:06 PMRitsukaMaybe hee in the U.S yes but not in Japan you can still buy nintendo games from a store in japan >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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05-20-2015, 08:23 PMShiraiOnly in very specialized stores, mind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritsuka
It's not like you can find stores that sell those ancient games and consoles can be found on every street corner either, most of them are either tucked away in the obscure corners of Akihabara and Den Den town if not on the outskirts of town.
Apart from that, keep in mind that all that equipment is second/third/fourth/etc. hand and that waranty expires at the cash register. -
05-20-2015, 08:26 PMStompaBut SE have quite clearly stated that they will keep FFXI running indefinitely, minus updates. So it is a simple matter of players keeping the game online by subbing to it and playing it. Which is not a problem for me, I love Vanadiel and I never get bored of adventuring in it with my friends. So I'm paying my subs, and so are many other fans. So long as enough of us are paying for FFXI, it will stay online. The truth is we don't know how many people will do that in the long term, but I believe it will be more than enough to finance basic online FFXI, without all the added expense of expansions/updates etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanica
On the whole Xbox PS2 thing, there are these PC things which are not very expensive really. I am from England and have a home there, but I work around the world, including Asia. I have worked in Asia for about 17 years, on and off. I know how popular consoles are here, of course. But PCs are really cheap in Asia, so I don't see a problem for die-hard FFXI fans here to switch from console, if they so wished. Even in US/EU, it isn't a huge investment to buy a basic PC that runs this game, and thousands of other cool games too. -
05-21-2015, 08:24 AMIsalCastanica will reply (again) that after 2 years, there -won't- be enough people staying subbed. Apparently though, Castanica is the only one who sees this, and is certain that everyone will be crying tears when the game's population dwindles to the point that SE shuts it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stompa
I'm still not turned off by the idea of F2P, but, the way I see it: FFXI as it is right now is already a bit of a patchwork frankenstein of an MMO that far outlived its expected lifespan and given the change in creative teams, is arguably no longer what the original team envisioned. At this point it's a bit of an undead horse that's been beaten well past its prime. Given the other thread clamoring for a classic server that plays like it's 2008 or earlier, it could be argued that the original FFXI was "shut down" years ago.
There's no way to shut off an MMORPG for good without upsetting someone, but I think the majority of those still around when it happens will likely see it coming in advance and make their peace with it and move on in one way or another. -
05-21-2015, 09:35 AMbungiefanNA
It's Final Fantasy Curiosity Rover edition, running years past anticipated design.
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05-23-2015, 06:58 AMRitsukaThey have a whole district Shirai not a few stores. its called Akihabara its in the chiyoda areaQuote:
Originally Posted by Shirai
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07-23-2015, 04:33 AMBillnesDear Friends,Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeargi
I'm sorry. As much as I hate admitting this, I like the idea of at least some elements of FFXI being placed on the Pay-to-Win model... By my own admission, guilty as charged (and I've made this *painfully* clear to Square-Enix both via phone calls and on the forums): I am a tard video game player. As much as nobody wants to hear this: I've been learning disabled all my life and I find some elements of video game culture extremely frustrating. I find this especially true of FFXI.... Things like the FFXI Wiki and Order of the Blue Gatr are very nice and they've been helpful to me, to an extent. However, there are a few small things in FFXI where you really can't "work around" or say "I'll go back to it later". "For example", you ask? I don't remember the exact name, but there's a quest that requires a fish that's rare/Ex and must be fished up by the player and not someone in the player's party. If I knew that Square-Enix only wanted US $7.99, for that fish, I'd wouldn't hesitate to charge that to a credit card. Really there Bill?? By by own admission, the answer simply is "yes".
I really wish I had some way if getting it into people a real understanding of what it is to be me. Being me is not easy. In terms of my video game playing skills, here are a few examples: I purchased my very first used PS1 in 2001. I would have never purchased it without scouring both the Chinatowns in Manhattan & Queens for a third-party Golden Finger and the matching door-latch spring first... As much as I don't want to admit this: I would have never finished the game "Eternal Eyes" if I didn't have access to the XXX-XX-XXX-XXXX (Gameshark compatible?) codes that the Golden Finger uses. Sad but true......
Again, I purchased an old console late-in-the-game: My very first used Sega Saturn in 2008. There isn't a day that goes buy that I don't thank G-d that I was able to get both the console & the matching code cartridge together at New York Comicon. The first game for the Saturn that I ever enjoyed without using the cartridge was "Lupin III: Sage of the Pyramid". And again, by my own admission, guilty as charged: Sad but true.
I know many here are going to be unhappy with this posting. I figured it would be better to tell the truth rather than to be silent or blow sunshine up people's noses. I thank you all very much for your understanding in this matter.
Best regards,
William N.
Long Island, New York -
07-23-2015, 07:52 AMZeargiQuote:
Originally Posted by Billnes
Seeing how you quoted me, I'll come up to bat again.
While I get that some elements in the game suck, Like fighting 0/1000 for D. Ring and someone else can be 1/1. I'd rather know that I was able to do it on my own, versus it just being sold to me. I personally find it insulting that some of those games that are p2w or f2p, are HORRIBLY unbalanced. If I don't spend money, then I have a severe and critical disadvantage. Take Happy Wars for example. Most of the people that are high tiered are the ones that shell out cash, hand over fist. And I'm not okay with, but it's fine if you are and you have the disposable income. I don't, so that's not an option for me. This game is leagues better than most because you can build and do things all at your own pace. There is still end game content that passes with the flavors of the week, but that happens in every MMO. FFXI is an old game, and it's run it's course. We need to let it go and enjoy the time we have left.
On a side note, I used to use Game Genies and Game sharks too when I was younger, but I've done a challenge to where I'd revisit titles on the NES that I had previously beaten and I'd do it alone. Without the help of Infinite Health, Lives, Ammo, etc... and It's a great feeling know that I beat them without having to cheat myself.
Titles so far: Battletoads, Megaman 1-3, Startropics, Clash at Demonhead, Little Nemo, Little Samson, Shadowgate, Princess Tomato and the Salad Kingdom.
And I'll continue to replay and beat them on my own.