well it seems this update is a huge fail

everyone is annoyed with this update, nerfed ws's, summoner problems with bloodpact activation time wont allow our gearswaps to work 100% anymore, empy gear reforged not living up to the hype, no new gifts except the SU2 and apparently some of the empy set augments are not working at all. people have been thinking since the SE conference that this game would be getting more fun and things would be fixed before the end but it seems theyre going the opposite direction.

You forgot to mention the problems with enmity changes. Question is now will there be an emergency maintenance or will we have to wait a month for the next update.

Nahhh.. THF needed a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Carver

Nahhh.. THF needed a nerf.

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Why do you say that?

Oh it was just a joke. Honestly I don't think they needed that much of a nerf.. they kinda pulled a RNG.

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Originally Posted by Carver

Oh it was just a joke. Honestly I don't think they needed that much of a nerf.. they kinda pulled a RNG.

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Okay cool. Just checking. Some people are sadistically happy about it after all.

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Originally Posted by Clou777

everyone is annoyed with this update, nerfed ws's, summoner problems with bloodpact activation time wont allow our gearswaps to work 100% anymore, empy gear reforged not living up to the hype, no new gifts except the SU2 and apparently some of the empy set augments are not working at all. people have been thinking since the SE conference that this game would be getting more fun and things would be fixed before the end but it seems theyre going the opposite direction.

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By everyone, I presume you mean "me, but I extrapolate that to everyone".

What hype was there attached to Empyrean reforging? SE didn't provide any. People just kept asking for it and waited a while. It's not the company's fault if you had unreasonable expectations.

Some of this stuff is pretty great. WHM head gives Divine Veil +20%. That's huge. It means 1 in 5 status cures will hit full party. That's next best thing to having a Yagrush (mythic club). Nothing else comes close.

thf nerf was needed, when i have perfectly geared sam, mnk, rng, war i shouldn't have to consider that bringing a pair of THFs(0 gear swaps, wearing max TH and even using sandung) will clear the content faster by killing it in one skillchain

it not only wrecked job balance, but made content completely pathetic to the point that much of it could be done without even bringing a mage or buffer

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

By everyone, I presume you mean "me, but I extrapolate that to everyone".

What hype was there attached to Empyrean reforging? SE didn't provide any. People just kept asking for it and waited a while. It's not the company's fault if you had unreasonable expectations.

Some of this stuff is pretty great. WHM head gives Divine Veil +20%. That's huge. It means 1 in 5 status cures will hit full party. That's next best thing to having a Yagrush (mythic club). Nothing else comes close.

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Using whm empy as an example is a bad example, people were still using whm empy before it was reforged. But I have to agree with Clou777 that the empy reforged is very underwhelming for certain jobs. However I'm biased in that I dislike Alluvion skirmish armor and was hoping that empy would come and knock it out of best in slot for everything.

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Originally Posted by Comeatmebro

thf nerf was needed, when i have perfectly geared sam, mnk, rng, war i shouldn't have to consider that bringing a pair of THFs(0 gear swaps, wearing max TH and even using sandung) will clear the content faster by killing it in one skillchain

it not only wrecked job balance, but made content completely pathetic to the point that much of it could be done without even bringing a mage or buffer

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rngs are not brought to kill things fast. They are brought to kill things safely. mnks were used for their ability to do the most magical damage, however with the magic burst update blm/sch/rdm will be taking that back over.

It was not needed, it didn't wreck job balance. Thf was only on the same level as all the other DDs. Now it's more like on the level of DD whm. As for why you would use 2 thfs, instead of just having one sam use a 5 step double light skillchain, idk maybe you don't know any good sams.

I never thought I would ever hear those words uttered in XI, "thf nerf was needed"

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Originally Posted by Carver

Oh it was just a joke. Honestly I don't think they needed that much of a nerf.. they kinda pulled a RNG.

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So in other words, people are having a cow, but the job functions just fine still, but nobody will use it anymore because: nerf bat, regardless of what the outcome is: nerf bat!!
Because that's kind of how rng went in what... 2005 was it? Rng did ungodly dmg by skipping the defense checks and then they fixed it to follow them. Rng was still good, everyone just hated it because 12rngs weren't knocking down kirin in seconds.

Kind of seems thf is the same.
From what I understand, thf is still popping off 30-40k dmg if you have the gear for it, how is that a bad thing?

Anyway, the update seems pretty good to me as far as content goes.
I've seen some bugs pop up that weren't there before, but so far, nothing game breaking or problematic. My old linkshell has been kind of quiet so idk if they found any bugs today.
I'm liking the stats on empy armour, I just need to get my butt in aby (bleh) and get some of my pieces to 109, then see what happens waiting for 119 prices since I can't do vagary.

I like this update.

I think they vastly overreacted to the complaining. Seeing how much they "slightly adjusted" the dagger WS makes me strongly regret commenting on the issue. Any adjustment that might have been needed wasn't anywhere near what they actually did, and putting off the new RDM spell intended to help with the issue definitely doesn't help. I'm all for a balanced game, but knee jerk reactions don't get us there.

Seems like Vagary (oh god there's so many dirty jokes going on about that) is pretty good, but it looks like they've upset more than they pleased today.

No notes on fixing the fishing bugs either. Sad update is sad.

THF was broken previously, they just fixed it and now it's in line with other damage dealing jobs. It still functions as a powerful SC closer but not as stupidly broken as it was before with 30K RS's being followed by 45~60K double darks.

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Originally Posted by saevel

THF was broken previously, they just fixed it and now it's in line with other damage dealing jobs. It still functions as a powerful SC closer but not as stupidly broken as it was before with 30K RS's being followed by 45~60K double darks.

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Yeah now mages can do this dmg and way beyond. But of course THF was OP while other Magic based jobs keep soloing the whole game xD.

I like Vagary, but I dislike the rarity of the +1 items considering the number of people you want to take in to beat it.

Empy armor is quite cool.

Thf got hit overly hard, I didn't think it needed a nerf anyway.

The update is fine. THF nerf was needed, SMN thing already said they're fixing (minor oversight), the rest is not even an issue.

Please don't exaggerate.

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Originally Posted by Clou777

empy gear reforged not living up to the hype

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Easy to get

Awesome stats

Pick one.

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Originally Posted by Bluestar2kx

So in other words, people are having a cow, but the job functions just fine still, but nobody will use it anymore because: nerf bat, regardless of what the outcome is: nerf bat!!
Because that's kind of how rng went in what... 2005 was it? Rng did ungodly dmg by skipping the defense checks and then they fixed it to follow them. Rng was still good, everyone just hated it because 12rngs weren't knocking down kirin in seconds.

Kind of seems thf is the same.
From what I understand, thf is still popping off 30-40k dmg if you have the gear for it, how is that a bad thing?

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If you have to actually PLAY a job rather than just faceroll people aren't interested. This is why MNK and SAM dominate, they are faceroll jobs that do awesome damage without putting any skill or effort into it. Just engage, spam WS and maybe fire off an ability once in a while and you'll still outdamage everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

The update is fine. THF nerf was needed, SMN thing already said they're fixing (minor oversight), the rest is not even an issue.

Please don't exaggerate.

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Rudras needed a nerf the other WS did not. They were only nerfed so that Rudras would remain the best in all situations which imo was a bad idea to begin with. Mercy Stroke and Shark Bite should be better than Rudra's at low TP with Rudras surpassing the other two at 200% then all three WS would be used instead of Rudras being used always.

For example:

Rudra's Storm 5.0 / 10.0 / 13.0

Mercy Stroke 7.0

Shark Bite 4.5 / 7.0 / 9.0

Mandalic Stab 4.0 / 6.0 / 9.0

All four WS would now be useful.

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Originally Posted by Bluestar2kx

From what I understand, thf is still popping off 30-40k dmg if you have the gear for it, how is that a bad thing?

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You understand wrong. Thf wasn't even doing 30-40k rudra's before the nerf unless some special mechanic was involved. Like atmas, weak to piercing, or had larceny'd mighty strikes.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I think they vastly overreacted to the complaining. Seeing how much they "slightly adjusted" the dagger WS makes me strongly regret commenting on the issue. Any adjustment that might have been needed wasn't anywhere near what they actually did, and putting off the new RDM spell intended to help with the issue definitely doesn't help. I'm all for a balanced game, but knee jerk reactions don't get us there.

Seems like Vagary (oh god there's so many dirty jokes going on about that) is pretty good, but it looks like they've upset more than they pleased today.

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It does open up an opportunity that I would like though. Now that they have nerfed it too hard they need to adjust it to be stronger somehow. I say they just changed the added damage from Sneak attack, Trick attack, and Flourishes III so it's added in before the ftp.

With this in place it would actually be best to gear for Agi when using trick attack instead of just the ability modifier for the weaponskill. The hands that augment trick attack, and sneak attack would then be best in slot when using their ability. It would make thf harder to gear for, which is one of the things people were complaining about. It also makes thfs who put time in to get job points stand out from the rest.

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Originally Posted by Clou777

everyone is annoyed with this update, nerfed ws's, summoner problems with bloodpact activation time wont allow our gearswaps to work 100% anymore, empy gear reforged not living up to the hype, no new gifts except the SU2 and apparently some of the empy set augments are not working at all. people have been thinking since the SE conference that this game would be getting more fun and things would be fixed before the end but it seems theyre going the opposite direction.

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I tend to agree with you. I haven't been impressed with this update either.

The last thing I wanted to do was go farm more NMs in boring Abyssea. That place is so easy now it's mind numbing. I also haven't been too crazy about Vagary either. At least not so far.

That being said: the new armor is very nice stat-wise so at least there is new armor to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

You forgot to mention the problems with enmity changes. Question is now will there be an emergency maintenance or will we have to wait a month for the next update.

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I tested out the changes the other day and it's made a noticeable difference. So I'm not sure what problems you are referring to - but it's definitely helped my Paladin compete for enmity when playing defensive. Reducing the enmity from damage was a welcomed and needed change.

I told you just raising the enmity caps was not going to get you the kind of results you wanted. So I'm not surprised you are dissatisfied.

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Originally Posted by Dale

I tested out the changes the other day and it's made a noticeable difference. So I'm not sure what problems you are referring to - but it's definitely helped my Paladin compete for enmity when playing defensive. Reducing the enmity from damage was a welcomed and needed change.

I told you just raising the enmity caps was not going to get you the kind of results you wanted. So I'm not surprised you are dissatisfied.

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The problem they need to address is how much hate the whm pulls with even light cures. Also not sure if you are an idiot or a troll, because I was the one saying that they should change how enmity was calculated. You said the problem was plds wear -dt gear and DDs don't.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

I doubt they will have enough time to address this issue before the upcoming update, but I also agree that there needs to be adjustment to the enmity situation. I don't think it's feasible to remove the caps because the values stored for it can only go so high. An easier solution might be to look into how enmity is calculated.

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Originally Posted by Dale

If they were to make enmity static on a single player it would have negative impacts on the over-all gameplay. Considerations for survival (such as strategy, sub jobs or gear etc.) need to be a decisive factor else the game devolves into tedious wow-style gameplay.



Assuming you are correct: this is not the case through-out the game and isn't reflective of the enmity situation as a whole. Generally the system works well and better than most other games. The more likely reason you are pulling hate with just your auto attacks (which I agree should not happen) is because the tank isn't generating enough enmity to effectively compete with you. That would still be the case rather the enmity caps were raised or not. Though I can't be sure because I wasn't there: it is more likely your problem occurs because you were consistently hitting the archangel with your auto attacks and your tank was consistently missing with his.

The obvious solution is for you to un-equip your daggers and miss too. I'm kidding of course. But the real problem here is that to reliably survive higher level battlefields Paladins must neglect their melee stats and focus almost entirely on mitigation which severely hampers their offense. A constraint the other more damage oriented melee jobs feel no need to oblige as evidenced by the OP: I should not have to have a full -pdt set because I'm a DD.

This approach creates an imbalance in the group and the tank suffers. Why should only the Paladin or the tank generally have to take the extra time and effort to defend their character against higher level attacks?

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Originally Posted by Ulth

The problem they need to address is how much hate the whm pulls with even light cures. Also not sure if you are an idiot or a troll, because I was the one saying that they should change how enmity was calculated. You said the problem was plds wear -dt gear and DDs don't.

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The reason I said the problem was paladins wearing mitigation gear is because it lowered their offense to the point they could not compete for enmity. That was the problem.

I never said there should not be changes to how enmity was calculated. I even said lowering the amount of enmity generated by offense would help the situation. I said this long before the update - though you conveniently omit that quote.

To be clear: what I said is that the enmity system itself works well in most situations and complete overhaul to the system did not need to happen. There did need to be some balance adjustments when it came to high-level fights when paladins had to wear mitigation gear to survive - which hampered their offense to point they could not compete for enmity. Lowering the amount of threat created by damage was one way to address this. And that's the way SE chose to fix it.

There is no conflict in anything I have said. I told you enmity caps had nothing or little to do with why Paladins could not get threat on high level fights. They raised them and you are still malcontent; so that speaks for itself. You and your like-minded supporters are never going to be happy until this game's enmity system works like World of Warcraft and tanks always have the threat. I don't want to see that happen.

You should learn how to debate without calling people names.

The update was great:

Thf adjustment was just right, I've been doing some content as mnk with a thf, and he is still closing darkness with a ~15K Rusdras and 20-30k+ Darkness - nothing to complain about there, thf is still an uber DD now that it was not before the original Rudra&other ws update.

RE Empherean armor - how can the stats not impress people? Really go have a good look at the 119's., My impression of the 109 armor, is that we are playing a 119 game now, so SE put in a nice simple way to upgrade empherean to 109 status, and the real challenge lays in making them 119. Vagary is an event to last, and imo, much like at 75 there was a gear progression line (Sky / Limbus / Dynamis > HNM? > Salvage for example) we also have it at 119 (Eminent 117 > Reforged AF/Relic 119 > Delve > Skirmish (which is actually very easy just costs a bomb for the good augments > Vagary - Reforged Emp 119).

Yes there has been some bugs, but bugs do get fixed, some have, and some will.

The update was very good imo.