Today i used a Duskorb+2 on my Keraunos and it gave me "Charm"+11, now which job out of BLM SMN SCH uses charm? The Augments are random enough as it is without getting augments for other jobs which cant be used on the job the weapon is for. Please fix this.
Devs - Please Stop the useless augments
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03-12-2015, 11:20 PMClou777Devs - Please Stop the useless augments
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03-12-2015, 11:23 PMRamzi
Heh, I'd have to agree. I've used 3 Duskslit +1 stones trying for DMG+ augment on my weapons (dagger, sword) and ended up with +MP on them all 3 times. I could understand if I was using a duskDIM stone that it would give me MP, but slit is melee combat stats. Rage inducing. That's all I can describe it as. Maybe some stones are broken? Please please look into it and adjust.
Oh and also, I've used Leaforb stones on my Acro gear and have gotten -perpetuation cost, and +repair potency on it. SMN and PUP cannot use Acro gear. Something is definitely broken. -
03-13-2015, 12:54 AMEthereal
Subjobs yo! XD
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03-13-2015, 01:31 AMAlhanelem
Random augments is one thing, but random augments that can not in any way be used at all by the jobs on the item is another. How about a flash enmity bonus on SAM gear? make it happen SE! (not)
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03-13-2015, 02:00 AMProteyit's your own fault. you used pet job augment item.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clou777
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03-13-2015, 02:01 AMProteylike the OP, that was your own fault. -orb is for pet augments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramzi
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03-13-2015, 03:05 AMKensagaku
Protey, both of your answers are flawed, as each of the items mentioned have a pet job on them. Clou might have been aiming for a SMN augment, but got augments for jobs that are not on the staff, while Ramzi was likely going for BST augments and got augments that cannot be used by jobs that aren't on the piece. Don't be so high-horse. >.>
That being said, I wish they would at least eliminate the augments for jobs that aren't on the item. Blood Pact damage on Linos, for example, should never happen, etc etc. -
03-13-2015, 03:18 AMevanwimbish
When used on a weapon;
Snowdim - magic attack bonus, magic accuracy, magic evasion, magic defense, defense, evasion
Leafdim- magic burst damage, spell casting time, refresh, cure potency, fast cast, magic damage taken -, haste,
Duskdim- INT,MND, magic burst Dmg +, magic damage +
I made a cirdas/rala weapon allouvian skirmish page about a year ago with all the auguments so feel free to check it out by digging through my original posts however the only changes from that page and this latest version update is that the values were increased from 15---30 for example if I used a snowdim +2 before the max magic attack bonus I could get was +15, now it's +30
By using the page I made last year, you can see which stones give what auguments and then apply that same theory to armor with a few exceptions.
Dim = magic (gained by using eudomon ring/cape)
Slit = melee (gained from sword eudomon)
Orb is pet jobs (gained from sash eudomon)
Tip is ranged jobs (gained from eudomon shield)
A brief example is, on day 1 I wanted magic attack bonus, magic critical hit rate, and magic critical hit damage / Int armors 5/5, so I used snowdim +2, leafdim +2, Duskdim +2, and I very quickly got 5/5 , then I worked on dual weild 5/5, and weaponskill Dmg 5/5 ect
The auguments aren't random, just the values are, and I am extremely satisfied with the augument system this time around! I didn't have to waste any money on stones because I saved all mine from last year, knowing they were going to use them on armors due to a post SE made in late summer 2014. Duskdim +2 are easy enough to obtain as well so it was enjoyable being able to plan out which stones you want via eudomon items, and then use the stones to get which auguments you need. -
03-13-2015, 03:21 AMDaleI think the general formula is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clou777
slit = melee augments
tip = range augments
dim = mage augments
orb = pet augments
Sticking to dim stones would likely increase your chances of getting useful augments for those jobs. Still: it is pretty random and you are going to waste a lot of stones. It's a lot of work. But the pay off is worth it because you can create some really nice pieces if you get lucky. Also it provides you with limited ability to customize your gear which is a cool. It's more interesting than just having static pieces of armor everyone wears the same of. So I am liking this new direction: though I can't deny it's frustrating when lady luck isn't on your side and you keep rolling augments you don't want.
The system does need to be better explained. But this game has never gone out of its way to clarify it's mechanics. Research is almost always necessary to understand this game in detail. -
03-13-2015, 03:22 AMUlth
They do have separate pools of augments for different weapons too. One that really bugs me is that weapon skill damage for one handed weapons is much lower than two handed and ranged weapons. OP does have a point about charm though, that's useless even for bst the job that uses it.
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03-13-2015, 03:42 AMevanwimbish
I more so would have fully welcomed the charm +11 so I could test it on my Gjallarhorn bard's varelai ;) and its good to know I can use duskorb stones for charm +11, this is also good for when you sub beastmaster because charm is based on your CHR, the higher your CHR is- the more likely/longer u charm an enemy, so a blm/bst can successfully charm most seekers of adoulin monsters which I think is pretty cool as an option, but sucks since u'd have to use drain to recover HP ; ;, but that's just using blm as the example, again I would eagerly like to test charm +11 to see if it increases varelai's charm as well, but until now we havnt had access to those types of armors. Thank you SE for giving us sooooo many options to do things now! I specifically <3 kraken club bard now since I can wear accuracy +30 / attack +30 armors 5/5 boooooooooooooooo yeaaaaaaaah! and putting store TP or weaponskill dmg on the linos as well as weaponskill dmg / weapon skill accuracy +30 is sooo amazing for bard with rudras! (snowslit / leafdim stones!) cant wait for this next version update to see what the new events are going to drop!! but yeah duskorb is pet augument so beware before u use them ; ; that's why they are the cheapest stones because not too many play pet jobs as much in endgame events vs other jobs.
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03-13-2015, 03:47 AMProteymy answers are not flawed. you could sub smn on those jobs. i'm not high-horse. you are just limited in your thinking. -orb is for pet jobs. doesn't matter if the augment is for the specific pet job you want, because you could have that pet job as a subjob. bst/smn for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensagaku
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03-13-2015, 03:57 AMRainehx
Its not so much the augments that get me, its the fact that in a month when empy hits this will all be worthless.
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03-13-2015, 04:04 AMProteydoubtful. these augments are ridiculously powerful and some have special augments that are not likely to be found on empy (phalanx+ for example)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainehx
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03-13-2015, 04:10 AMdasvaIt's supposed to be for pet jobs... however from what I've seen the only "pet" augments on duskorb on weapons is charm, base stats and bp dmg. The majority of the possibly augments for duskorb have nothing to do with pets at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Protey
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03-13-2015, 04:38 AMKensagaku"You are just limited in your thinking" is a very condescending reply, so yes, yes you are. That being said, the flaw in your logic is that there is no real benefit to subbing a pet job in today's 99+ gameplay. Yes, I understand the possibility of developer intent, but this intent is ridiculous, and it is because of that we are speaking out to try and remove augments that are mostly useless for the jobs wearing the equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Protey
Subbing BST only gets you charm since you can't equip pet jugs, and the use of charming things in Adoulin is next to none. Subbing PUP gets you a level 49 puppet, more than 60 levels below the average Adoulin content, and its only use in the past was to have it for Ob, who is ridiculously easy to solo at our current levels even without changing his frame. Subbing SMN is the only one with any minor bonus between Auto-Refresh and maybe something like a niche Garuda Hastega casting. With so much dependent on skill and avatar level, having it as a subjob is an extremely weak choice as compared to say, SCH or RDM.
Again, I'm not saying that the Devs didn't do this intentionally because "oh, they may sub X pet job", because I'm not psychic last I checked. But the point of the forum is feedback, and the feedback is that it is ridiculous to get repair potency on a piece designed for Beastmaster when /PUP is mostly useless. -
03-13-2015, 05:12 AMevanwimbish
I still sub bst and charm things and throw them at the delve enemies outside fracture.... sometimes on blu , sometimes on bard, I usually solo triobox so having the extra pets if I'm BLU BRD SCH and blu, brd, use charm it quicken things up a bit, an example would be when I have to solo tier V delve yorica for a bead, then i'll use nearby enemies to charm and throw it at NM, and its not like those enemies have their level scaled or anything.... so ur throwing 113 pets at them or so with "charm" as /bst
charm is also used for bind on all enemies that aren't charmable so the charm +11 works in that case as well, good for parties where you need to keep your distance, so the charm +11 would also work to that advantage
/pup is very very good after the recent adjustments so having a pet cure is a great option, however the magical attacks still kinda suck, even wearing 5/5 pet MAB armor +25~30 my pet cant break 500~1000 dmg.
/smn is great when taking advantage of day/weather/elemental weaknesses, but your enemy has to be weak to an element to take most dmg, but caitsith is amazing as /smn which some ppl overlook that he gets raise II at like level 20 or something as well as reraise,
but again, maidens varelai and charm are the TWO things to charm enemies with. so charm +11 I'm curious to see if it works on bard vs bst, but even more so a charm +11 weapon isn't something you main in anyways, it would be part of a equipset if anything, but /pet jobs aren't that bad, u just have to put a lot into them.
I use thief/pup to solo dynamis when I'm bored, the pet heals me and staggers enemies , I use drain bolts when necessary, and my pet always has MP due to mana converter, I can have him haste me, protect IV shell IV cure status ailments, use an eraser on me, ect
with the new armors you can make 5/5 -pet damage armor so thats even more amazing for jobs like diablos which give phanlx to the pet, allowing him to take a lot less dmg than normal, then swapping to 5/5 pet macc for things like absorbs attributes from enemies within range ect.
what I always told my LS members when we were doing verdgris / wailingstones armors; Never throw or re-augument armors if use a +2 stone, unless you already have that augument, because eventually ull have an idea that ull want to test out, and u wont have the armor that u threw away... example I saved all my pet magic attack bonus +25~30 hagondes armors so that way when I wanted to play as blu/smn later , or thief/pup ect I would have them. (thought I didn't save -enmity or magic burst dmg because blu can only magic burst with blu spells under a 2 min job ability, and I would need a sam to effectively use magic burst armor)
Im not replying to try to hurt anyones feelings, I'm just hoping to raise awareness for these armors and what their intents were for, they definitely work fantastic in certain situatations like if u have 5/5 pet magic accuracy / magic attack from using duskorb stones +2 5/5 (magic attack bonus +30 / macc +30 on each) making it so I can throw away some old hagondes pieces (like hands) and keeping things like feet which have initial pet auguments. And they are universal armors making it so I can wear it for blu or smn (though most smn armors cant be replaced with skirmish gear) ect.
i'll take the charm +11 weapon if u don't want it ;p -
03-13-2015, 05:15 AMProteymy first post, no, no it wasn't. stating what something is designed for and pointing out that you were using the wrong one is not high horse. it's pointing out you didn't do what would make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensagaku
there is no flaw in my logic. the -orb stones are designed for pet augments. yorium gear is war drk pld; should they just not give any augments for -orb? doesn't matter if you don't like it, doesn't matter if you deem it ridiculous, that's the way it is designed and you should not use that stone if you don't want pet augments. and if you want certain pet augments over others they would have had to create a ridiculous amount of tertiary type stones for each possible augment. doesn't matter if you think subbing a pet job is unreasonable, people play different ways. your gripe is what is ridiculous. -
03-13-2015, 05:57 AMKensagaku
Why would they have had to create a tertiary type of stone? Granted, I'm not a programmer, so I don't know the load that goes into it, but why wouldn't they have something like simply limiting stone results based on the type of armor or weapon? We already know they have different bonuses based on the equipment piece used (i.e. you can use Leafslits on Acro but you won't see TA or Dual-Wield, where you'll see it on Taeon), so why not make it so that only the pet bonuses that can apply to the jobs equipping the piece can be put on? Granted, I see the problem that comes on on Yorium gear, the only set that doesn't have pet augments, but with the wide number of general augments, what harm would it do to have them snip a few that don't make sense?
Even more, why are you arguing against trimming unuseful pet augments that apply to jobs that can't use the armor piece? I see no reason it hurts you to have Avatar Perpetuation cost removed from a BST axe or BP dmg+ removed from Linos. -
03-13-2015, 10:08 AMProtey
the harm is that there are people like evanwimbish who do play with those pet jobs as subjob. why should his augments be taken away because you are a little inconvenienced? now if you were to say something like: when you trade the armor/weapon and augment stone a dialog box pops up that you choose which specific augment you get (values will vary still) then that I could totally agree with. But as the system is now, it would not be fair for you to suggest taking the augments away from people (although I think it odd that they would play /bst or /smn or w/e, that is their choice).
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03-14-2015, 01:10 AMAlhanelemthere's no benefit. Nobody ever subs those jobs and there is pretty much nothing to gain from doing so. BST is the only pet job of the four that is in any way functional as a SUB due to charm being based on BST main level and not sub level. But that only helps you where there are charmable mobs. This does little but get in the way of trying to get legitimately good augments you can use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensagaku
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03-14-2015, 03:22 AMRamzi
lol OP's post went right over some people's heads. OP WANTED PET AUGMENTS. But ones he could actually use. He was augmenting the staff for avatar type enhancements, and he got Charm+11 which is on a weapon not usable by BST. This should not be possible- it's a broken mechanic. No one in their right mind is subbing any type of pet jobs in the game these days for any reason. There's just no need to, and you are intentionally gimping yourself by doing so.
So it's not his or my fault that the system sucks. Acro gear cannot be used by PUP or SMN so why have PUP or SMN type augments possible? I want BST augments on it. That's it. This crap is random enough without further complicating the problem. -
03-14-2015, 06:35 AMDalePoint taken. But that's basically the case as it is with all jobs I find.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramzi
I often get slit augments that might as well be useless to me because they do not fit my playing style. Technically you could make the argument they benefit me because my job can use them. In the reality though: unless they coincide with my build they are meager and not worth keeping.
As I understand it orb stones are singular to pet augments much the same way dim stones are singular to mage augments. So if you were to limit the augments of orb stones to match the main job requirements on armor then these stones would become advantageous in ways these stones are not. Protey's point this would shun sub job combinations is also something to consider.
I guess what I am saying is we all get useless augments. This isn't unique to orb stones or pet jobs. It just seems that way because the misplacement of the augment is more obvious. But in the end I believe the system is consistent. -
03-15-2015, 12:45 AMevanwimbish
The original post is stating he used dusk orb(pet) on a karunos staff (smn blm sch) and he got dusk orb stats (pet)
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03-15-2015, 10:25 AMAlhanelemI'm wiling to wager that the augments are selected entirely based on the stones and totally independent of the gear you're using. It may or may not be simple for them to change this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramzi
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03-15-2015, 12:43 PMRamziFalse. Leafslit will give you Triple attack on Taeon pieces, but only double attack on Acro pieces. They have made the distinction based on gear set. Why not with orb type stones?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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03-15-2015, 01:42 PMevanwimbish
most people make the assumption about charm that it is based on your main level, because that is what ffxiclopedia.org/charm says but this really isn't the case.... charm is based on a users CHR, not their main level, you can test this by taking CHR off and trying to use gauge/charm on a tougher enemy and seeing what the log says , this is perfect in some cases with CHR bard set up (relic horn gives +CHR 15~25 and most gendewitha +1 is high CHR pre-yorcia allouvian) anywho I rarely use /pet because /sch is 99 sch in most cases so blu/sch is more worth while, with the new skrirmish regen potency armor and /sch regen II and bolebunga ect /sch is the best sub job for most jobs looking to be self sustaining.
an example;
if I am blu/sch and I have no arts active I have about 150 elemental magic skill if I use stone my stone will look like this;
stone 333 stone 49 stone 1100 stone 454 stone 843 stone 1100 stone 258 (stone 49 is the lowest amount of dmg my stone will do, and 1100 is my normal damage which I'm supposed to do unresisted)
if I use dark arts then I get 350+ elemental magic skil (which is what a level 99 has before gear/merits), if I use "stone" it looks like this
1100 1100 1100 1100 1100 1100 1100 1100
*(1100 is an example, my stone is 2000+ as blu/sch with day/weather belt, quanpur necklace, ect 390 MAB, ect)
(elemental magic skill does not increase damage, it must makes it so the enemy does not resist your natural magic damage amount often(ly)
to further increase damage you look at 5 different methods;
magic attack bonus, (adds a % of damage to your spell)
magic damage (gives almost triple the amount listed towards spell, example stone does 1100 dmg , with dosis tathulm (+13 Magic dmg stone does 1143)
magic critical hit damage activation / magic critical hit damage %+ , not really worth while with tier I spells, but amazing if your spell does higher damage, example it makes my light/dark spells go from 5~15 to 25k+)
INT the more INT you have, the more magical damage you do, this also works if you lower an enemies INT as well (example Impact or soundblast)
day/weather adds up to 35~45% damage to your spell) new storm spells II from scholar gifts give 15% dmg, old ones gave 10 so I think this broke that to 55% cap however still havnt tested thoroughly)
anywho; EVERY job can use skirmish armor, and EVERY job can use snowdim on 5/5 armor to get 120+ MAB, then use a club for all jobs with magic dmg +99 + and sub sch in dark arts, ect, then every job can do 1000+ nukes with proper gear, this is how I'm hitting 1500+ nukes with my alt "phagen" bard/sch or with pld/sch or with war/sch ect and this is very much more possible for EVERY job, after the new allouvian skirmish was released
the reason why I don't use /pet jobs as much as I use /sch is for obvious reasons (my thunder does 2100 + on delve shark as blu/sch) but I do like to use pet jobs when I'm VERY bored with gameplay because everything is soo easy to do now once u get 5/5 MAB ect
imagine how many people augumented their hagondes +1 armor with +2 stones and got pet magic attack bonus auguments, not knowing that the same method listed above works with pets...... 2/3 of the pet jobs have skill that cant be capped to 99 but that still does not mean that they "cant " do real damage if they don't have the proper armor.
things like "pet damage taken -2 neck for most jobs" from miser coast, and pet -5 dmg from the new skirmish armor is highly overlooked, but they are mainly for people who have been already working very hard on macro/equipsets for a while. These pieces may look random to some, and so may the auguments, but they are meant for EVERYONE as a whole, for people that like to take jobs to the maximum potency of a trait / attack / spell ect -
03-15-2015, 02:01 PMevanwimbish
but put it this way..... if I have 360+ INT, +50 magic critical hit rate, +50 magic critical hit damage, +370 magic attack bonus , then I don't have to rely on ANY sub to play my main as blu..... so /sch in most new content isn't really worth while since I'm relying on my main blu magic to deal dmg vs low tier nukes, so if I'm spamming subdction or tempest upheaval or other blu magics, I don't have time to use the abilities of my sub. that is why I brought up my yorica weild example, (if I'm spamming 3~9k magic spells every 1 second, then it isn't worth while to use anything else except occulation or haste ect, so I could have a pet doing stuff for me as well since I don't have time to hit any other buttons)
I don't use /war because its only +20~35% attack bonus , provoke, 10% double attack which does not stack with blu trait
I don't use ninja because occulation is 10 shadow images and I get it back 25 seconds later, I already have dual weild II + 5/5 dual weild armor +5 on, so theres no point in /nin
I don't use /dancer often because phagen is either brd/dnc (kraken club gjallarhorn rudras) or brd/sch (I also have wolfevangelist as scholar (trio box) so I already have access to sambas /waltzs
I don't use /rdm because I have magic hammer for 1500 + every 1~2min so no convert or refresh necessary
i don't have to /blm since i have access to my own stuns as blu
i might /drk after the update since absorb traits will raise my INT making me do more dmg both ways since I'm gaining the INT, and the enemy is losing it
but /sch is the most comfortable sub atm for blu since u have access to light and dark arts making u a 99 sch and a 99 blu basically at the same time, minus the regens and high pro/shell ect -
03-15-2015, 02:39 PMAlhanelemI don't play BST at all admittedly, but I had read (as you noted) that your BST level plays into the success rate of Charm, as supposedly if you had not fully leveled BST, charm would fail with BST subjob much more than if your BST was max level.Quote:
most people make the assumption about charm that it is based on your main level, because that is what ffxiclopedia.org/charm says but this really isn't the case.... charm is based on a users CHR,
Well, I agree. If it's already a thing as you said, it makes little sense to have Charm be a thing on gear that BST can't equip. I can't say it's COMPLETELY invalid though, given what was said by the poster I quoted above, because that means technically BST sub is "viable."Quote:
Why not with orb type stones?