A thankyou to SE for the jobpoints and gifts system.

I just want to say a big thankyou to SE, for the addition of Jobpoints and Gifts to FFXI.

This system is the most enjoyable thing that has been added to FFXI in many many years, I have really been having great fun customising my character with this system.

On "jobpoints and character solidity" in the RPG setting, I will say that from my player perspective, my character now has greater depth, and a feeling of solidity that is far beyond how I felt about my character before the system was added. My character feels deeper and more real to me, now that she has this multifaceted extra dimension of jobpoints and gifts.

On "customisation" I have really enjoyed specialising the aspects of my two main jobs, and improving aspects of those jobs which are more frequently useful to me in my individual game style. This was not possible with merit points, they were far too uniform to allow for depth of personal choice. But with jobpoints I have been able to enhance the things I find most useful, and in an RPG sense, enhanced the attributes which I feel reflect my character's cautious and thoughtful personality.

I found jobpoints quite slow to earn in the beginning, but as I got multiple +5%CAP gifts, and the CAP+ cape, I have found that I can earn a decent slow-and-steady amount of jobpoints on solo with trusts. With my limited game time of an hour before work, some occasional crafty gaming during work-hours (shhh!) and a couple of hours in the evening before bedtime, I have been able to obtain 81 jobpoints on PUP and 105 jobpoints on WAR. And this has been mostly solo, and on a casual timeframe over several months. I am happy with the rate of CAP gain, and it got easier after I obtained a handful of the +5% CAP gifts, and a cape.

I really love the jobpoints and gifts system, it is the most fun I have had in FFXI for many years. My character feels more real and solid to me as a roleplayer, she has a greater depth and is much more customised towards how I always wanted her to be.

I am really looking forward to making more progress through this system at higher stages, and excited about further developing my character in future updates to the system.

Thankyou very much SE, for adding jobpoints and gifts. It is a really great system, with lots of future potential, and has made FFXI much more interesting and fun to me as a player. :)

I half expected this to be a troll post before clicking, but it's nice to know someone's happy.

I think it's too slow without the double events, but that's the only facet of the system I have complaints about.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I half expected this to be a troll post before clicking, but it's nice to know someone's happy.

I think it's too slow without the double events, but that's the only facet of the system I have complaints about.

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LOL, no this is a genuine 'Happy Customer Says Thankyou' thread.

I believe in "credit where it is due" and SE have really added a super feature to the game. They really surprised me with the sudden addition of the Jobpoints/gift system, I hadn't expected them to take the game in this direction, after the whole ilvl thing, I wasn't expecting them to allow players to suddenly focus on advanced character personalisation and to make this possible on a casual solo play mode too.

You may be right about the permanent CAP event, I don't personally mind the base CAP rate, after I got a handful of the CAP+ gifts and the backpiece, it was OK. Not fast or easy, but OK for me.

But we are all different, and my opinion on CAP gain-rate doesn't matter more than anybody elses. It is a hornets' nest and I'm not going to kick it lol.

I just really wanted to say thankyou to SE for developing this system, it is really fun and engaging, and gets my roleplayer senses tingling lol. Especially as I have often raged and screamed at them over other issues down the years, it is nice for me to be able to just be really happy with their new system and to say thanks for adding it.

I don't know. I'm a little on the fence about job points. I enjoy the feeling of incremental progress in a job rather then the other progress of crossing my fingers and hoping I get a good random augment, or to pour my heart into getting some item that gets antiquated in the following update. That part of job points I like, and feel I'm in some sort of minority of people who don't think getting them is too hard. What I'm not a fan of is how very little they matter for some jobs, but are crucial to playing others.

I think it would be beneficial to know what SE's vision is for them at this point. Which is all the more irksome as they haven't actually told us what job point categories they are about to add or what the new gifts are. Other things it would be nice to know about is if they still plan to raise the cap from 10 to 30. Will job points from 10-30 still follow the same pattern of increased cost? Right now the max number of job points you can spend is 330, with the two new categories it will be 440, but job gifts stop at 95. Will job gift go all the way to the max number of allocatable job points? These are the sort of things I would be interested in hearing about. Not people squabbling about how grindy they feel.

I honestly really like Job Points for the same reasons as the OP, though I agree with Alhanelem that they're a tad slow, especially when the double points campaign is over. I like grinding things out and I feel like it's content everyone can participate in which is always a plus!

I'm excited, yet nervous, to see what they do with Job Points.

I totally agree with the last two posts, we really don't know the range or nature of jobpoints/gifts in future updates. We don't really know how far this system will go, or how it will evolve, if at all.

But what I am happy about is that the current basic Jobpoints/gifts system, has so much potential for future updating. Right now I'm happy with the fairly small number of points I've got, I'm just really happy that I can remodel my ten year old character and give her some boosts on the type of categories that really fit her character and her main battle strategies. So I'm having fun with the system today, as it is. And although I don't know what will happen in future, I am excited by the potential that this system has, to really allow for deep customisation of our characters.

One of the good things is that Jobpoints are really not essential, so people who don't obtain them should not feel like they are gimp. Quite honestly, if I was forming a group for events, and somebody told me they had zero jobpoints, I wouldn't even blink. It doesn't matter, and the difference it would make to a well-organised strategic event, is negligable. Yes, having lots of jobpoints does make you slightly better, some of the timer-down categories especially are very useful, but the difference between a player with hundreds of jobpoints, and a player with zero, is not a huge big deal and I personally would never discriminate against anyone who had zero points, as it isn't a huge issue.

But at the same time as this system not being a "must-have" make-or-break feature, that people would feel compelled to work on just to get in parties, it does allow for players to improve their characters and personalise them through individual augmentation. So I think the system has struck a very happy balance, you don't need jobpoints, but if you have them it is a very nice tweak to your powers, and a way to define your character in game-mechanics or in roleplay, or both.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I half expected this to be a troll post before clicking, but it's nice to know someone's happy.

I think it's too slow without the double events, but that's the only facet of the system I have complaints about.

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That and job points should be able to be earned everywhere, not just in Adoulin areas

Technically they can be earned elsewhere, in a number of ways. An example is doing Macroscopic Orb BCNMs. Doing Amphibious Assault on Difficult last night, I was seeing about 3800 CP per with two CP gifts, and then on the last one I got a lot more because all CP bonuses affect it; cape, Corsair's Roll, and even CP rings. Another point is that any monster at a high enough level will award them, just in a lesser amount; I believe the minimum is level 96 mobs, though I don't recall exactly. I know that the higher-level mobs in Dynamis can award CP, and some of the upper-90s GoV camps (Fei'Yin, Garlaige Citadel basement, etc) can as well. It's slower, but you don't HAVE to go to Adoulin.

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That and job points should be able to be earned everywhere, not just in Adoulin areas

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They can be earned in any non-abyssea area with monsters level 96 or higher. There are areas outside of audolin that have such enemies.

Can earn them in Dynamis too, on the harder monsters. But it's not enough to really feel satisfied.

Even some Adoulin areas are too slow. Crabs and Fish in Dho Gates feels about right for the "work put in:rewards gained" ratio.

All they really had to do was expand the merit system with new groups that are only unlocked after 99. So I can't really say I'm grateful when a simpler solution, adding on to a system that no one considered broken, could have made everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

All they really had to do was expand the merit system with new groups that are only unlocked after 99. So I can't really say I'm grateful when a simpler solution, adding on to a system that no one considered broken, could have made everyone happy.

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I'm grateful because the job point system is mechanically superior in that everything is available to you and the only limitation that really impacts you is time. Would you have preferred to have to choose between 2 or 3 of the several job point effects? JP are practically an answer to what most people (other than myself probably) whined about when it comes to merits.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm grateful because the job point system is mechanically superior in that everything is available to you and the only limitation that really impacts you is time.

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To me though, that is a big limitation.

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Would you have preferred to have to choose between 2 or 3 of the several job point effects? JP are practically an answer to what most people (other than myself probably) whined about when it comes to merits.

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Yes, I would have been OK with that. Would being able to choose everything be ideal? Sure. I still wouldn't merit Aggressive Aim, but yes I would be fine with just an expansion of the merit system with current flaws intact over what they've pushed on us with JPs.

You know what I wouldn't mind? A job point category that increased your max amount of category 1&2 merits for the job. I would spend time on that. I do foresee a problem if they increase the max of job points to 30 as that would be more than most jobs have. However I'm sure SE could drum up a few more merit type things. Or maybe just keep that category at 10. Or just increase the cap with gifts. Really they have a lot of cool options they could do with job points. Sky is the limit.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

All they really had to do was expand the merit system with new groups that are only unlocked after 99. So I can't really say I'm grateful when a simpler solution, adding on to a system that no one considered broken, could have made everyone happy.

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I prefer the job point aspect of having to earn them on the job you spend them on. In theory, this way somebody's "main" job can be slightly better than another player who only plays job X in a pinch.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

All they really had to do was expand the merit system with new groups that are only unlocked after 99. So I can't really say I'm grateful when a simpler solution, adding on to a system that no one considered broken, could have made everyone happy.

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Who said JPs were some kind of fix to merits? You are creating an arguments for the sake or arguing. No one said JPs are merits and vice versa, they are fundamentally designed to do 2 different things. The only thing that has ever been stated was a comparison to the rates merits used to be obtained similar to current JPs.

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To me though, that is a big limitation.

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But it's an easily adjustable limitation. And it has been getting adjusted gradually with updates. Whereas changing the mechanics of the merit system would be more work to adjust, they can just add more items with + capacity points, adjust the amount we recieve from kills, adjust the amount required, whatever.

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Originally Posted by Xantavia

I prefer the job point aspect of having to earn them on the job you spend them on. In theory, this way somebody's "main" job can be slightly better than another player who only plays job X in a pinch.

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I don't really get your reasoning here since merits could be earned on any job over 75 and spent on any job over 75. I could, and did, earn most of my merits on BRD but I spent them on the jobs I actually enjoyed first. The way job points are, you'll earn them on the job you play the most, but you'll have to spend them on that job whether you like it or not.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Who said JPs were some kind of fix to merits?

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I never said that at all. I said that rather than create a new system out of whole cloth, they could have simply created merit Groups accessible at 99 and no one would have complained. It would have been easier on the devs and us.

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You are creating an arguments for the sake or arguing.

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That seems to be more what you are doing. I simply made a comment that the devs and players didn't need the JP system, and that simply expanding the already existing merit system would have been a superior solution especially for a more time limited player base and one with fewer grouping opportunities.

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No one said JPs are merits and vice versa, they are fundamentally designed to do 2 different things. The only thing that has ever been stated was a comparison to the rates merits used to be obtained similar to current JPs.

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No, they serve exactly the same purpose. They incrementally improve your character without increasing its level. And see expanding the merit system would have us collecting new things at the same rate we were used to rather than sending the game back to the dark ages.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But it's an easily adjustable limitation. And it has been getting adjusted gradually with updates. Whereas changing the mechanics of the merit system would be more work to adjust, they can just add more items with + capacity points, adjust the amount we recieve from kills, adjust the amount required, whatever.

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I'm not expecting them to actually flush the JP system and replace it with new merit Groups. I'm just saying that if the devs were intelligent life forms, new merit groups is what they would have originally come up with and they wouldn't have this mess of a system to deal with now.

Except one not only provides vastly different benefits, especially with the implementation of the gift system, but also requires you to spend time on X job rather than other Y job getting exp for X job.

I'll just sit back and watch this one unfold again. /popcorn

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I'm not expecting them to actually flush the JP system and replace it with new merit Groups. I'm just saying that if the devs were intelligent life forms, new merit groups is what they would have originally come up with and they wouldn't have this mess of a system to deal with now.

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I'm not seeing how it's a "mess of a system," which comes across to me as hyperbole. It's perfectly functional, its not hard to understand, it lets you get everything, you get tiny (but free) bonuses regardless of what you spend on. The only difficulty is its slow. I do not agree with any complaints about job fairness, anyone on ANY job can get a reasonable rate (relative to whats possible) using trusts and playing their job to the fullest. In some cases a little creativity / outside the box playstyle is needed if you're soloing, but you can also just party up if you're not happy with your gain rate. But this goes back to the only complaint i have which is gain rate. That's really the only flaw and the only thing they need to adjust. The flaws, both real and alleged, are minor- not a "mess."

I LIKE that you have to earn them on the job- that's how I prefer to do it anyway. If you don't want to play the job you're earning them for, why are you doing it?

I hope this doesn't turn into the other thread.

I don't think JP are a mess either. There may have been some miscommunication or a change in direction by SE on what JP are supposed to be, but it's pretty clear what they are now and what they will be moving forward. At this point we know that it's a system to improve your character beyond level 99 and merits. Every upgrade is permanent so you don't have pick and choose and raise and lower things like merits. The upgrades seemed minor at first, but with gifts and now JA and spells being unlocked, the benefits are starting to add up. It's definitely worth doing now.

So people can complain that it's too hard or too much trouble, but saying there is no incentive is not really an argument anymore. As I said in the other thread, SE please add more viable camps and please consider increasing CP rates in the near future.

I'll agree there, there's pretty much only one zone with mobs strong enough for a party that I know of, that's Woh Gates.