Holy crap guys

If you have not taken a look recently at Pol and read the blurb for July update go do so now all you RDMs and geo's.

*waits a few minutes*

Time to let out a squee, right?

Its too early, so not yet.

I'm ga-ga over the absolutely adorable baby sheep and Qiqirn kid. :)
Really got my fingers crossed for some Monstrosity updates.
Hope these job changes lead to more party diversity.

Well yes since we don't know how good the spell will be vs the tier I will be, but come on who would have thought SE would put a tier two of that spell? ALso geo's have been asking for a version of the spell too so just the fact they announced it is ATM good enough for some.

Yes the baby sheep and qiqirn are cute.

I'm not going to hold high hopes on this one, I may not be a full fledged red mage myself but I think it takes more than a new spell to give red mage a prime spot in the big game again.

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Originally Posted by Mnejing

Its too early, so not yet.

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My sentiments as well for the moment.

Greetings!

Indeed, Haste II is on the way for red mage, but that’s not all we're adding! Other types of new enhancing magic spells as well as enfeebling magic spells will be added for red mage in the July version update.

Of the spells that will be added, there will be effects that lower the physical and magical evasion of enemies, which will make them resist less and increase your hit rate.

We’ll be announcing further details on topics, so stay tuned!

Even that third tier of march?!

Woo even more juices tid bits. Thanks Camate. Though this better be really good stuff or peeps will get the pitchforks out. Lol

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Originally Posted by Malthar

Even that third tier of march?!

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I hope not.

/cautiousSquee

<_<; >_>;

At first, I thought "holy crap" was the name of a new white mage spell. I'm glad it isn't. Excited about new red magic (can we call it that?) though!

:D good stuff!!!

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Originally Posted by Vivivivi

Excited about new red magic (can we call it that?) though!

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I still call it white magic OR time magic. :(

Not even sure what is red magic exactly. lol
My point of view about Red Mage is like half mage and half melee.

Edit: I read the webpage: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Magic

I don't think FFXI really need it but it would be nice to borrow some of white and black magic into red magic. :)

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

I hope not.

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I hope so!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

Indeed, Haste II is on the way for red mage, but that’s not all we're adding! Other types of new enhancing magic spells as well as enfeebling magic spells will be added for red mage in the July version update.

Of the spells that will be added, there will be effects that lower the physical and magical evasion of enemies, which will make them resist less and increase your hit rate.

We’ll be announcing further details on topics, so stay tuned!

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Oi Camate, I was just watching mogitate and Matsui-san said Haste II is 30% haste. Is that true (final)? o_O

Mind you I've no wish to start a debate on the subject, but... BRD is already by far the best buffer in the game, it can nearly cap magic haste with just 2 marches as it is nd adding another more powerful one will only make it even worse for every other buffer. The point of giving jobs like RDM & GEO better buffs, most importantly Haste, is that it makes the jobs more viable. There's no point to it all if BRD is even more powerful and only continues to massively overpower every other buffer.

I won't lie though, I'm just a bitter RDM who hates the idea of an update that helps my job only serving to give false hope by allowing nothing to change as a result of it.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Mind you I've no wish to start a debate on the subject, but... BRD is already by far the best buffer in the game, it can nearly cap magic haste with just 2 marches as it is nd adding another more powerful one will only make it even worse for every other buffer. The point of giving jobs like RDM & GEO better buffs, most importantly Haste, is that it makes the jobs more viable. There's no point to it all if BRD is even more powerful and only continues to massively overpower every other buffer.

I won't lie though, I'm just a bitter RDM who hates the idea of an update that helps my job only serving to give false hope by allowing nothing to change as a result of it.

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It's not who is the better buffer, but it opens alternatives now for other jobs to play the same role in a pt for mostly what those roles are for. For example, the majority of people use bard for ballad and acc, the rest is an extra bonus, but that is mostly it. Now with RDM haste II and stuff like lowering the acc needed to hit things, it is basically playing the same role, can refresh/haste/acc equivalent. On top of it all they have access to para II and the sorts (even stun if needed). Not saying it will remove the need of a bard, but very much like the idea that shouts shouldn't just now pertain to "BARD ONLY" type shouts, but should have plethora of jobs to choose from. I for one think a good RDM has more potential in a pt than possibly a bard now, not saying all, but to say that it still won't be on par is absurd.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Mind you I've no wish to start a debate on the subject, but... BRD is already by far the best buffer in the game, it can nearly cap magic haste with just 2 marches as it is nd adding another more powerful one will only make it even worse for every other buffer. The point of giving jobs like RDM & GEO better buffs, most importantly Haste, is that it makes the jobs more viable. There's no point to it all if BRD is even more powerful and only continues to massively overpower every other buffer.

I won't lie though, I'm just a bitter RDM who hates the idea of an update that helps my job only serving to give false hope by allowing nothing to change as a result of it.

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That's the thing. Haste II alone isn't really going to change anything for Rdm sadly in terms of party play (hopefully their other new spells are potent enough). Don't get me wrong, my alternate main is Rdm, and I love the job dearly. But a Brd/whm (or /rdm or /smn) can cap haste out by itself already. I just want a third tier March because it would open up other song opportunities and allow me to probably cap haste without /whm, /rdm, /smn, or the use of trusts.

Third Tier Haste isn't adding nearly as much as one would think. Not to mention, it would work with Haste II and Indi/Geo-Haste so...

All I have to say is Haste II better not be self only like you guys have been making all the other rdm main job only buffs...

A 30% Haste II would allow a BRD+RDM combo to max Haste w/ only Victory March but.. what party opportunities does this open? Delve1 is mostly restricted due to the HP-scaling. DDx3 BRD WHM SCH can handle that easily and RDM can't replace any of those jobs. D AAs are mostly done with RNG (and a BRD), where 2xMarch and Haste II might not be incredibly useful. One can certainly make an argument for Dia III and Weight II (which is what I'm assuming the second spell that wasn't mention is) as a replacement for Minuet and Prelude. Scherzo, however, would be sorely missed.

Interestingly, this does open opportunities for lower-level groups as well. If your LS hasn't cleared these events, or can't clear them too easily, then Weight II, Dia III, and Haste II would be a great help to groups with less-powerful DDs, 2-song BRDs, or BRDs without +4 March total. The fact that some groups take RDM to Tojil anyway means they'd be getting two new Spells without the cost of having to take additional players.

If anyone can speak to VD AAs or Delve2, I'd be interesting in hearing their thoughts.

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Originally Posted by dasva

All I have to say is Haste II better not be self only like you guys have been making all the other rdm main job only buffs...

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Mochizuki-san (Mocchi) casted Haste II on Matsui-san on the video, so it seems it works just like Haste.

Well, Refresh II successfully got RDMs back into parties, as SE predicted, so I just know that Haste II will make them shine again. Next thing you know, they'll be making RDM overpowered with Diaga II and even, *gasp*, En-spells III! That'll fix 'em good!

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Originally Posted by Rhonda

A 30% Haste II would allow a BRD+RDM combo to max Haste w/ only Victory March but.. what party opportunities does this open? Delve1 is mostly restricted due to the HP-scaling. DDx3 BRD WHM SCH can handle that easily and RDM can't replace any of those jobs.

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RDM can replace a SCH in delve, but unless haste 1 and 2 stacks it's not going to replace BRD and it doesn't solve any of the BRD being too OP issue.

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Originally Posted by Afania

RDM can replace a SCH in delve, but unless haste 1 and 2 stacks it's not going to replace BRD and it doesn't solve any of the BRD being too OP issue.

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RDM can't get Stun recast down as low as SCH. Until it can do that, it can't really serve the same purpose. While Tidal Guillotine and Incinerating Lahar have become more survivable over time, I'm not sure taking RDM is worth incurring the extra risk.

Also, no one is going to replace BRD with RDM. Considering how little utility BRD has apart from enhancing, I'm thinking there's no reason for RDM to be able to compete with BRD on party enhancements, anyway. For the most part, I think the interesting thing is determining how Haste II / Weight II change the BRD + RDM relationship, especially given that BRD + RDM + WHM is often too much support.

If people are willing to Pink Mage, RDM + BRD (or COR) becomes an option but WHM are so common I don't know why anyone would bother going that route.

And BRD is not OP.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda

RDM can't get Stun recast down as low as SCH. Until it can do that, it can't really serve the same purpose. While Tidal Guillotine and Incinerating Lahar have become more survivable over time, I'm not sure taking RDM is worth incurring the extra risk.

Also, no one is going to replace BRD with RDM. Considering how little utility BRD has apart from enhancing, I'm thinking there's no reason for RDM to be able to compete with BRD on party enhancements, anyway. For the most part, I think the interesting thing is determining how Haste II / Weight II change the BRD + RDM relationship, especially given that BRD + RDM + WHM is often too much support.

If people are willing to Pink Mage, RDM + BRD (or COR) becomes an option but WHM are so common I don't know why anyone would bother going that route.

And BRD is not OP.

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Yes and no. You can get 9s stun timers which is the floor for FC + Haste reduction. The delve NM's will do TP moves every 11~13s, possibly longer if they cast spells. They have very predictable attack patterns. Attack Round -> Tp Move -> Attack Round -> Tp Move, with magic being frequently cast after attack round but before TP Move. And while SCH can get 3s stun timers with enhanced JA's, there is no need for them to be that low on tier 1 delve. That being said, RDM requires a much better gear setup then SCH to be functional.

Source: I've actually stunned Delve I as a RDM. Competent stun SCH's have been a PITA to find lately so I geared my RDM (already had 95% of the gear) for stunning as a last resort. People make this out to be way harder then it actually is.

I haven't seen a RDM since 2010.

If Haste II is indeed 30% and the other spells RDM receives do the same thing as GEO's spells, all you need to know about them this:

1) They will not help RDM replace BRD as a buffer
2) They will not help RDM enfeeble better than a GEO
3) They will not help RDM be a good enough DD to warrant bringing
4) They will not help RDM heal well enough to replace a WHM

When RDM was the best healer in the game, it was light years ahead of WHM when it came to keeping exp chains going. There has never really been a place for second or third best in end-game. People only want the best for a certain role, and RDM hasn't been the best at anything for a long time. After the proposed changes (with what little info we can glean) RDM will be in the same rut, and at best it could occupy the barely existent party slot that currently belongs to GEO.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda

RDM can't get Stun recast down as low as SCH. Until it can do that, it can't really serve the same purpose. While Tidal Guillotine and Incinerating Lahar have become more survivable over time, I'm not sure taking RDM is worth incurring the extra risk.

Also, no one is going to replace BRD with RDM. Considering how little utility BRD has apart from enhancing, I'm thinking there's no reason for RDM to be able to compete with BRD on party enhancements, anyway. For the most part, I think the interesting thing is determining how Haste II / Weight II change the BRD + RDM relationship, especially given that BRD + RDM + WHM is often too much support.

If people are willing to Pink Mage, RDM + BRD (or COR) becomes an option but WHM are so common I don't know why anyone would bother going that route.

And BRD is not OP.

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I've done delve with RDM as main stunner several times and I didn't notice much difference in terms of difficulty. I'd still want SCH because of regen V but RDM is totally viable replacement.

Also, if a job that has ability to increase each DD output by around 90% AND slow/AoE sleep /dispel and prevent ppl from getting 1 shot isn't OP, which job in this game is OP? Not even SAM can increase 3 DD's output by 270%.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Yes and no. You can get 9s stun timers which is the floor for FC + Haste reduction. The delve NM's will do TP moves every 11~13s, possibly longer if they cast spells. They have very predictable attack patterns. Attack Round -> Tp Move -> Attack Round -> Tp Move, with magic being frequently cast after attack round but before TP Move. And while SCH can get 3s stun timers with enhanced JA's, there is no need for them to be that low on tier 1 delve. That being said, RDM requires a much better gear setup then SCH to be functional.

Source: I've actually stunned Delve I as a RDM. Competent stun SCH's have been a PITA to find lately so I geared my RDM (already had 95% of the gear) for stunning as a last resort. People make this out to be way harder then it actually is.

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While I've heard of people doing this, I wouldn't consider it a drop-in replacement for SCH, especially not in PUG. You'd probably have to wait just as long to get a PUG RDM with a Stun/FC/Haste set. 3~6s recast means SCH stun things like Dispelga and Meteor between TP moves. Hell, a SCH could even misfire and recover. Not exactly crucial but helpful to maintain a smooth run, if anything. As I said, taking an RDM instead of SCH incurs additional risk.

To be fair, however, I've done almost all of my recent Delves with either of two SCH, pretty much. An LS mate starts the group, starts talking to one of the two, presumably, then I jump in. I remember SCH being a pain to come across sometimes but if you can't find a SCH you can just do the Bee or Dawakawakawaka instead of Tojil. While Apoth and Guillotine both suck, I don't remember either of those NMs "requiring" a SCH or, by extension in this conversation, RDM.

Related, it seems RDM's issue is still specialization. As long as another job can do perform at a task even just slightly better, people will just take that job. RDM can't get Stun quite as low as SCH, can't Cure quite as efficiently as WHM, and while Dia III and Weight II are interesting corollaries to Minuet and Madrigal, BRD wins big over RDM with Ballads and March. What would be helpful for RDM and a few of the other lolJobs would probably be alliance content where it's helpful, rather than hurtful, to bring more people.

Well also another problem is more than just specialization. Rdm does excel at somethings... however SE has designed them not to matter. Rdms superior enhancing skill doesn't matter and ditto enfeebling most the time. It's enfeebles are well feeble. It's sp2 is a joke. All but a couple of it's unique spells are self only. I mean just changing the gain spells and temper to be able to target pt members would be huge

Am I the only one in this thread that doesn't only see Haste II (let's ignore the fact there is no info whatsoever on Haste II, so let's already talk about how bad RDM is).

People say there's no use for RDM, there's a use just no optimum use. I've been taken as RDM to many EG events over the last few months in various roles but it takes a lot of dedication to the job or flat out a ton of skill and gear to make it work. Doing things such as DDing on Difficult MPNMs like Gessho and going to Delve II runs as the only nuker are possible things and RDM can offer enfeebles which do help with the event, but it's not as though everyone can do this. RDM should be stronger, and it's a weak job by compare to others, this is true, but saying Haste II won't do much of anything is false in my opinion. It won't change the job and make it insanely desired, but it'll help quite a bit in my opinion and the other spells give me even more hope for my job to become more powerful. That said, I'm planning to quit if WHM gets Haste II(just like Addle), because it's just another sign of RDM's inability to be given anything special at all while other jobs share in everything good it gets.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Am I the only one in this thread that doesn't only see Haste II (let's ignore the fact there is no info whatsoever on Haste II, so let's already talk about how bad RDM is).

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Perhaps you haven't read every single post in the thread then. Some have even given the new spells impromptu names like Weight II, but the fact is these spells will not matter because they won't help RDM.

I'm sure you know this already, but everyone on these forums except for the white knights (they know who they are) have a 99% success rate in telling when a future change will be crap or not. When it comes to RDM, the prime example is Stymie, but I would be here all day if I wanted to list everything. This goes for every aspect of the game. So, all I want to say is, if we are saying it's bad the second we hear about it, it's more often than not going to be horrible. The devs have no idea what this game is and how people play it and probably never will.

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Originally Posted by AppropriateName5786

Perhaps you haven't read every single post in the thread then. Some have even given the new spells impromptu names like Weight II, but the fact is these spells will not matter because they won't help RDM.

I'm sure you know this already, but everyone on these forums except for the white knights (they know who they are) have a 99% success rate in telling when a future change will be crap or not. When it comes to RDM, the prime example is Stymie, but I would be here all day if I wanted to list everything. This goes for every aspect of the game. So, all I want to say is, if we are saying it's bad the second we hear about it, it's more often than not going to be horrible. The devs have no idea what this game is and how people play it and probably never will.

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Well obviously not every post. Perhaps you can also tell me the marble winning numbers while you are at it.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Well obviously not every post.

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You didn't read every post in a very short thread, yet you implied that everyone else ignored the other spells that were mentioned by Camate when, in fact, everyone was discussing them? :/

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Perhaps you can also tell me the marble winning numbers while you are at it.

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I'm just shaking my head at this point. I blame the public education system.

I would be surprised if WHM doesn't get Haste II as well, it makes little sense for them not to.

HOWEVER they better start focusing on giving RDM better Enhancing and specially Enfeebling spells or at the very least adjust our current spells so they scale waaaay better with skill. We also need RDM to be given at least A- Enhancing Skill, and reduce Saboteur recast to 2-3 mins.

Some examples:

Dispel : Make it so if you cast it with a higher skill it Dispels 2 effects instead of 1, and if used with Saboteur make it dispel 3 effects.
Slow/Para : Add tiered bonus duration when cast with higher skill in addition to effect bonuses. With Saboteur make it so bonuses (from skill and armor) apply in full against NMs instead of only 50%
Bind : Duration Bonus. With Saboteur make it so it wont wear off if the mob takes damage.
Blind : Increase the effect/duration cap. With Saboteur add a chance the monster will completely miss physical skills on top of the Accuracy check.

Etc. etc.

Stymie : Add an option so we can disable it altogether. It's just useless clutter on the abilities menu I personally don't need.

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Originally Posted by Afania

RDM can replace a SCH in delve, but unless haste 1 and 2 stacks it's not going to replace BRD and it doesn't solve any of the BRD being too OP issue.

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Haste 1 and 2 dont have to stack, haste 2 just has to be better than 1.

Also, haste II isn't the only new spell RDM is getting.

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Originally Posted by AppropriateName5786

You didn't read every post in a very short thread, yet you implied that everyone else ignored the other spells that were mentioned by Camate when, in fact, everyone was discussing them? :/


I'm just shaking my head at this point. I blame the public education system.

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Apparently you didn't read every post in this thread either, implying that Haste II isn't the overly discussed update coming to Red Mage with no mention of other things. The occasional "White Knight" you will call it points out the obvious and 1 person mentions weight II. Sure, you will probably try and pick something else out of this to quote random things from and respond with random responses having nothing to do with Red Mage just for the sake of arguing because you know how your previous statements made you look like such a tool. For example, mocking the "education system" to try and show some kind of superior knowledge over (in this example, me) people.

I'm really glad though that you are around to keep us normal people informed on how terrible any improvement to a job is because it doesn't fall down your guidelines with your superior development knowledge the rest of us don't have access too.

It looks like the new physical evasion down spell isn't Weight II but another spell that will, hopefully, stack with Weight.

I'm pretty bummed WHM doesn't get Haste II but it looks like the new Tier 1 spells are sub level, so I guess casting those will keep me busy during combat. WHM/RDM.. old school!