Delve already dying?

Ever since Delve came into the scene, ppl quickly went to the content, most of the old got neglected, patch was made to make it even more difficult for potential new players to try it out, ppl went elite only to make the situation worse, and now im seeing it dying down within a month. Ppl already have their weapons/equ, some maxed out, not gonna continue, basically already done w/ the content at hand. So who wants to bet they are gonna make this content much easier for ppl to get back into it?

Off track on this one cause I talk to some of my LS members and this came to mind...

The reason im saying this because I knew this was gonna happen. I knew it was gonna screw the new players in the long run(and no im not gonna tell them to play a specific job, I want them to feel comfortable on the job they favor) because they will have trouble playing the new content. I don't know what SE was thinking when they release this content w/o knowing the consequences that about to spew out. There so much problems that is hurting this game and im wondering if they are doing this on purpose.

Delve is not dying so far as I know, why would it? Unlike events like VW it has a point system allowing you to get your items, and thanks to Airlixirs being needed by many people for their augments on weapons and on gear its keeping people going even if they finish their own personal gear, Airlixirs right now seem to be the best way to make money even. On top of this, once people start beating the bosses more frequently and more easily it will probably become even more important because people will need a ton of Plasm for those items, some of which are even 200,000 Plasm.

Not to mention the crafting items that (as far as I'm aware) drop from the bosses. If people don't want to use one of the support jobs (whm brd cor) so that they can get the wins and plasm required to get their delve weapons, they can farm gil and wait for the craftable weapons to come into play and eventually drop in price if required.

Im not worried about mats and yes ppl can do that to farm gil or crafting, but how long til ppl get tired of it once they have everything they need. Somehow the talk just reminds of Voidwatch, u can farm HMP, riftcinders, etc. but once ppl have what they wanted, where are they at regarding shouts for runs and whatnot? Im looking at this long term and how SE gonna make ppl get back to this content by forcing them to make it easier as due the other older contents for example.

See the thing with VW was ok till the cruor nerf, take Akvan for example, the drop rate is roughly 1 in 3 kills for a plate, so six kills is 2 plates. Before the cruor nerf people could do Akvan, use the 20k Cruor a kill and turn it into 50k gil, on top of that, they were spending 120k on dust (if they had to buy it) which made it 180k profit from the cruor alone, the plates were a bonus. With how it is now, plate prices dropped, not sure exactly where they are now but last I knew it was roughly 80k, so basically you are spending 120k on dust to get 160k worth of plates, an Akvan run rewarding you with 40k for every run on average.

Plasm farming on the other hand has no entrance fee at all for anyone except the person taking you in, who is compensated with the first 2~3 Airlixirs, as together they cost roughly the same as the entrance items. Everything inside is not luck based unless you count the group you go with, most runs are simply the same, and drops are not a big deal with 18 people, its more about the Plasm you use to buy Airlixirs, so VWs problems are mostly eliminated.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

See the thing with VW was ok till the cruor nerf, take Akvan for example, the drop rate is roughly 1 in 3 kills for a plate, so six kills is 2 plates. Before the cruor nerf people could do Akvan, use the 20k Cruor a kill and turn it into 50k gil, on top of that, they were spending 120k on dust (if they had to buy it) which made it 180k profit from the cruor alone, the plates were a bonus. With how it is now, plate prices dropped, not sure exactly where they are now but last I knew it was roughly 80k, so basically you are spending 120k on dust to get 160k worth of plates, an Akvan run rewarding you with 40k for every run on average.

Plasm farming on the other hand has no entrance fee at all for anyone except the person taking you in, who is compensated with the first 2~3 Airlixirs, as together they cost roughly the same as the entrance items. Everything inside is not luck based unless you count the group you go with, most runs are simply the same, and drops are not a big deal with 18 people, its more about the Plasm you use to buy Airlixirs, so VWs problems are mostly eliminated.

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Your facts (I hope) are pretty far off. Now servers vary, but, check this;

On my server, I did 6x10 and bought ALL the voiddust, it cost 4k each. Voidwatch has died off -that- much. so that was 240k total. The plates I got I sold for MORE than the usual cost, because plates are going UP in prep for the new 99 empyreans. Yes, I sold them @ the original price 100k each, and they sold near-instantly. Yes people can be dumb, and undercut.

Made in the neighborhood of 3,000,000 with the cost of 240k. Just sayin'.

The voidwatch problems still exist within fracture. Gimps are everywhere, there is no salvation.

Everything "INSIDE" is luck. You could have a TERRIBLE paladin, or a garbage whitemage who doesn't haste/erase/cure.

You can have people who don't use food, don't swap gear etc. The "problems" are not event specific, just more apparent within certain events. Personally, the fracture group should be BETTER, FAR better than a Voidwatch group...

The rewards from a shitty voidwatch are the exact same as an EXCELLENT voidwatch... This is NOT true for fracture.

My numbers were based off the last 2 times I did VW honestly, PC is messed up fairly bad and Im prepping to wipe it so didn't really feel like goin to check current prices. If it has actually balanced out better than cool, I am just saying that from what VW was to what Delve is right now they are vastly different, because VW's money was mostly based on luck and paying to have a shot at that luck provided you had no stones, where as Delve has a minor entrance fee for a single person and the reward is much less luck based.

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Originally Posted by Karah

The rewards from a shitty voidwatch are the exact same as an EXCELLENT voidwatch... This is NOT true for fracture.

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That's not much different than saying that the rewards from VW can be trash or worth something, but the drops from Delve are always good money. I mean in 1 respect they are similar and on another they are totally different, the fact that Delve is so much more widespread in my opinion is why it will not die as easily. VW had people hunting different NMs for different items, Delve is all done in the same place for the same thing, Plasm. VW had low drop rates which made people angry and give up hope, Delve takes time but you WILL get your items eventually if you keep at it because its a number and progress you can track. VW money items were mostly all for 1 selection of weapons, while Plasm, or rather Airlixirs, are for a great deal of armor and weapons.

These are all reasons I think Delve will live a long time, the exact reason why I think it will live long is also the same reason I think it will die as soon as content outdates it, unlike VW. VW at least is a vital step in Emp weapons, and will continue to be needed for them most likely, while Delve is only Delve, if the Delve content is outdated then Airlixirs become paper weights and Plasm farms will die down, leaving the content barren, unlike VW which has a good reason to be kept alive. On top of that, VW has gear which fills various key spots like PDT or STP in large amounts in a single spot, while Delve is a ton of mixed stats with augments providing tons of WS gear or nuking gear, but not a ton of other uses, so if that is outdated the gear becomes an expensive stepping stone, and we all know how well those work in this game.

It took me a single day to get 30k plasm for the weapon I wanted... A week later, playing casually, I had all of the Delve items I wanted including some I can't even use that dropped from teir NMs... The way I see it, the only people with access to the top-teir item KIs (from the megabosses) are those who are in LSs doing delve... and those LSs are going to stick together for the most part, meaning the rest of us will just wait for the next content update and pick up from there without worrying about Delve...

Delve is super grindy and monotonous, good riddance I say... at least there was some variety in VW...

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Originally Posted by Karah

Your facts (I hope) are pretty far off. Now servers vary, but, check this;

On my server, I did 6x10 and bought ALL the voiddust, it cost 4k each. Voidwatch has died off -that- much. so that was 240k total. The plates I got I sold for MORE than the usual cost, because plates are going UP in prep for the new 99 empyreans. Yes, I sold them @ the original price 100k each, and they sold near-instantly. Yes people can be dumb, and undercut.

Made in the neighborhood of 3,000,000 with the cost of 240k. Just sayin'.

The voidwatch problems still exist within fracture. Gimps are everywhere, there is no salvation.

Everything "INSIDE" is luck. You could have a TERRIBLE paladin, or a garbage whitemage who doesn't haste/erase/cure.

You can have people who don't use food, don't swap gear etc. The "problems" are not event specific, just more apparent within certain events. Personally, the fracture group should be BETTER, FAR better than a Voidwatch group...

The rewards from a shitty voidwatch are the exact same as an EXCELLENT voidwatch... This is NOT true for fracture.

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lol @ the reward from shity VW being the exact same as excellent VW.
-shity run can be a wipe=> no reward @all (yes it's possible to wipe in VW)
-possible reward are the same, not the reward, no matter how good you are if the RNG say you get no drop you get no drop while the guy who landed 2hits per fight got every possible drop

any group that can enter Delve will get out with some plasm, don't even need to /sh for full ally.

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Originally Posted by hiko

-possible reward are the same, not the reward, no matter how good you are if the RNG say you get no drop you get no drop while the guy who landed 2hits per fight got every possible drop

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Really one other thing that puts Delve apart from VW too, everyone gets the same reward based on how well you do, so no one has any reason to slack off. In VW people at times basically did nothing, or afked, they would get the same reward regardless of what they did, so they did not care. Now, its a bit different, Delve makes it so everyone feels like they are being rewarded for their effort, and everyone has to do their best to pull in more for everyone, if you slack off, you kill your own reward as well, extra incentive not to do that.

The problem with Delve is that you MUST bring 2 PLDs with Ochain. People don't want to fight the NMs, they just want to keep em off their backs so they can kill trash mobs. And if those PLDs don't want to do delve, or multiple alliances are competing for the same PLDs, it can take a long time, if at all, to start a delve.

The solution is simple though: make NMs spawn from ???s. Everything else would remain the same.

You really don't need 2 PLDs, you need 1 person willing to die over and over again for 45 minutes, and 1 person willing to pull additional NMs to them after the wall goes down who is willing to die 2~3 times.

You don't need a sacker either. 1 -Legit- paladin can hold 4 maybe even all 5 NMs with a rdm/sch/whm supporting the debuffs removal and emergency cure.

Regardless sooner than later people will stop holding trash nms and just start killing them. (I hope)...

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Originally Posted by Karah

You don't need a sacker either. 1 -Legit- paladin can hold 4 maybe even all 5 NMs with a rdm/sch/whm supporting the debuffs removal and emergency cure.

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Of the two options, sacker seems better. PLD+WHM means 2 spots taken to fulfill the same job, where as 1 sacker and 1 puller leaves the puller to do whatever when they are not pulling, and the sacker has no possible worries because they are there just to die, and link up the NMs to die again.

As for people killing them one day, who knows, I watch many groups try and fail to kill the Mata in a Plasm farm, most of the time it turns what should be a 6~8k farm into a 3~5k farm at best. If people do start doing the NMs in Plasm runs it will have to be some people who do it together who are running the NMs mostly, because random people do not seem to get the coordination down together to do even the easiest of them, let alone the later ones. The truly best farms though will come once people can start taking down the bosses easier, because then you can hit more than 30k Plasm a run easily, but that's far off I am sure.

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Originally Posted by Karah

The voidwatch problems still exist within fracture. Gimps are everywhere, there is no salvation.

Everything "INSIDE" is luck. You could have a TERRIBLE paladin, or a garbage whitemage who doesn't haste/erase/cure.

You can have people who don't use food, don't swap gear etc. The "problems" are not event specific, just more apparent within certain events. Personally, the fracture group should be BETTER, FAR better than a Voidwatch group...

The rewards from a shitty voidwatch are the exact same as an EXCELLENT voidwatch... This is NOT true for fracture.

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The rewards from a shitty VW are logs or nothing. The rewards from an excellent VW are logs and a very slim chance at something. Even a bad plasm farm nets you progress. It might not be the progress you were hoping for, but you will end up closer to your goal. With VW you might go hundreds of runs and be no closer to your goal than when you started. You'll likely net some plates, but definitely not even close to every run.

Im pretty sure SE said they would make things easier when they add higher level (tiered) content, no?

Five-hundred and ninety-eight airlixirs are needed to fully augment just one piece of equipment from Delve. That's just shy of 300,000 mweya plasm. Three-hundred thousand plasm is a lot of pick-up groups, especially if a lot of those groups drink a lot of paint, and that's for just one article of clothing.

The only ways I see Delve being quickly exhausted are if the augmented armors are outdated as quickly as the augmented weapons can be or if folks are "forced" to continue Delving nearly 24/7 due to a long-term lack of other content with similar rewards.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Five-hundred and ninety-eight airlixirs are needed to fully augment just one piece of equipment from Delve. That's just shy of 300,000 mweya plasm. Three-hundred thousand plasm is a lot of pick-up groups, especially if a lot of those groups drink a lot of paint, and that's for just one article of clothing.

The only ways I see Delve being quickly exhausted are if the augmented armors are outdated as quickly as the augmented weapons can be or if folks are "forced" to continue Delving nearly 24/7 due to a long-term lack of other content with similar rewards.

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+1 and +2 Airlixers are not as rare as you might think... As people get better at killing NMs and the bosses, prices will drop... I upgraded a weapon to Rank 9 in under an hour the other day using less than 10mil, there are a lot of people who have a lot more than 10mil lying around waiting for a good use...

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

+1 and +2 Airlixers are not as rare as you might think... As people get better at killing NMs and the bosses, prices will drop... I upgraded a weapon to Rank 9 in under an hour the other day using less than 10mil, there are a lot of people who have a lot more than 10mil lying around waiting for a good use...

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Level 9 is 1700 rank points out of the 5980 rank points needed for level 15. I'll admit there's not much reason to totally cap most pieces, but that's still two airlixir +2's that could be dumped into that piece if somebody had nothing better to do.

There are definitely people with tons of gil and, now that it's been discovered that the Delve bosses can be defeated by heavily buffed melee with competent support, certain groups will begin advancing much more quickly. These are the same people who exhaust ALL content quickly, so I don't see how this is unique to delve.

There are also people with limited play-time or bad schedules, or people who are more terrible at FFXI than you could ever imagine. I feel bad for the former, because they're probably going to be stuck with the latter for a lot of Delve farming runs for a long time. Just like some poor soul is probably shouting this very minute for somebody to hit a tiger in the junk for Orison body seals and praying he doesn't recruit a paint-drinking simpleton, there will be people who need to do Delve as long as the stuff there is relevant.

I don't see any reason for Delve's lifespan to be any longer or shorter than any other point-based content. Stuff is stuff and folks are folks. I could always be wrong, though.

I was definitely wrong about that third chili dog last night...it was like firing chocolate soft-serve out of shotgun...

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Level 9 is 1700 rank points out of the 5980 rank points needed for level 15. I'll admit there's not much reason to totally cap most pieces, but that's still two airlixir +2's that could be dumped into that piece if somebody had nothing better to do.

There are definitely people with tons of gil and, now that it's been discovered that the Delve bosses can be defeated by heavily buffed melee with competent support, certain groups will begin advancing much more quickly. These are the same people who exhaust ALL content quickly, so I don't see how this is unique to delve.

There are also people with limited play-time or bad schedules, or people who are more terrible at FFXI than you could ever imagine. I feel bad for the former, because they're probably going to be stuck with the latter for a lot of Delve farming runs for a long time. Just like some poor soul is probably shouting this very minute for somebody to hit a tiger in the junk for Orison body seals and praying he doesn't recruit a paint-drinking simpleton, there will be people who need to do Delve as long as the stuff there is relevant.

I don't see any reason for Delve's lifespan to be any longer or shorter than any other point-based content. Stuff is stuff and folks are folks. I could always be wrong, though.

I was definitely wrong about that third chili dog last night...it was like firing chocolate soft-serve out of shotgun...

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I'm not saying that it will die down completely, but as far as I can tell delve is just a stepping stone for the rest of SoA content... The paint-drinkers aren't capable of putting together efficient delve parties, and they're already becoming rarer than they were at first... Hours of silence in town with the occasional person asking someone to make an alliance...

It's difficult to find someone with the KI to open the fracture... Wildskeeper Reives are extremely rare and Reives in general are pretty much dead... with no reives being done the colonization rates are always low, meaning the wildskeeper reives are nearly impossible (the NMs take damage proportional to the colonization rate...) People who are perfectly capable of putting together these alliance will be busy with other, newer, content unless it's nicely tied into these same areas--and if that's the case it's going to be boring... I'm already so sick of Ceizak Battlegrounds, I'm sure others are as well...

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

I'm not saying that it will die down completely, but as far as I can tell delve is just a stepping stone for the rest of SoA content... The paint-drinkers aren't capable of putting together efficient delve parties, and they're already becoming rarer than they were at first... Hours of silence in town with the occasional person asking someone to make an alliance...

It's difficult to find someone with the KI to open the fracture... Wildskeeper Reives are extremely rare and Reives in general are pretty much dead... with no reives being done the colonization rates are always low, meaning the wildskeeper reives are nearly impossible (the NMs take damage proportional to the colonization rate...) People who are perfectly capable of putting together these alliance will be busy with other, newer, content unless it's nicely tied into these same areas--and if that's the case it's going to be boring... I'm already so sick of Ceizak Battlegrounds, I'm sure others are as well...

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It has gotten almost eerily quite on our server (carby) only the same 3 people shout, the rest all formed new shells (*disgusted*).

Had to bold the SICK OF CEIZAK comment, holy hell so sick of it... Why they are STILL farming -JUST- NQ mobs and holding NMs is beyond me, I know we're a VERY very slow to catch on server but damn.

Only NM Phoenix kills in a run is the Mata because its stupidly easy. Most NMs inside seem like to much trouble to bother with for such minimal gain, I mean 1 NM is the same as 10 normal mobs, that sounds good at the start, few mobs are around, killing the NM at that point is a boost. But once you start killing other things like the Raptor, or the Eft, you are going to start cutting into time when the wall is down, and even if its worth 20 mobs in Plasm with all those Airlixirs on top, can you kill it fast enough to be worth it? In my opinion it will be a long time before groups are casually killing multiple NMs in Delve, Mata is already being done heavily it seems to me, but that one is so easy that its mindless, of course people do it, but what about others? That's where the real problem is, because their gimmicks do not mean you just attack for 5 minutes then bust out instant death on the NM.

They will probably add a daily cap or a delay on entry to delve soon.

Hope not, because this is the best event they have had in a while, does not screw you like VW with terrible drops, no entrance delays, a nice point system, augments to keep those who want the best coming back to do it some more, hard NMs you have to kill at least once for the item you want. In my opinion the only flaws Delve has is the Alliance requirement basically and the fact NMs are spread in the farming area, which I think was a bad idea, besides that, best event we could ask for right now I think.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Only NM Phoenix kills in a run is the Mata because its stupidly easy. Most NMs inside seem like to much trouble to bother with for such minimal gain, I mean 1 NM is the same as 10 normal mobs, that sounds good at the start, few mobs are around, killing the NM at that point is a boost. But once you start killing other things like the Raptor, or the Eft, you are going to start cutting into time when the wall is down, and even if its worth 20 mobs in Plasm with all those Airlixirs on top, can you kill it fast enough to be worth it? In my opinion it will be a long time before groups are casually killing multiple NMs in Delve, Mata is already being done heavily it seems to me, but that one is so easy that its mindless, of course people do it, but what about others? That's where the real problem is, because their gimmicks do not mean you just attack for 5 minutes then bust out instant death on the NM.

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I did a few all 5 NMs kill pickups with some NQ mob kills inbetween. Thats more than 12k plasm total just from NM kills, 5 r/e items and tons of potions. Most JP pickups do that actually (thats for morrimar btw).

But you know how american play this game. Some one goes to ceizak and suddenly ceizak is the only option. If my usual 6 man group can kill matamata/raptor/eft in 40 minute, most alliances should be able to kill 5 NMs np. But yeah. Delve juste like every single adoulin content gets old after 1 week. The game sucks right now.

why do pre adoulin content?

why do Bayld now?

why imprematur, seriously?

Who seriously spends time on skirmish?

who seriously will spend 1~2h on a nakual?

Plasm farming trash mobs gets old after the 3rd run.

I like the point system but the content itself is really boring. I at least found voidwatch entertaining. Calling out procs, swapping weapons, using temps, it was/is actually pretty fun.

I don't find killing trash mobs for 45 minutes after taking an hour for an alliance to be put together "fun" - At least not on BRD.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

But you know how american play this game. Some one goes to ceizak and suddenly ceizak is the only option.

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The most disgusting but, correct truth ever posted. One small addition though, the laziness factor. Ceizak is closest therefor, logically it's the bestest and ONLY option.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

But yeah. Delve juste like every single adoulin content gets old after 1 week. The game sucks right now.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

why do pre adoulin content?

why do Bayld now?

why imprematur, seriously?

Who seriously spends time on skirmish?

who seriously will spend 1~2h on a nakual?

Plasm farming trash mobs gets old after the 3rd run.

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Can't believe I'm in solid agreement, but yup, this. Fracture was old after one run though, especially if you saw the first run that I was "fortunate" enough to take part in.