Aegis > RUN

Lets face it RUN cannot tank, and more importantly run is NOT being allowed to tank. Aegis Pld is better than run is almost every capacity. Aegis for Pld have a -45% mdt reduction against ALL elements not to mention a high block rate for physical attacks. Run tanks cannot hold NM mobs because enhancing magic is weak and take too long to cast. Moreover the rehashing of low tier spells from other jobs, lack of original magic lead run into what other see as a joke job.

I know the job is not finished but the Aegis shield alone beat the entire run job class as it refers to tanking, its disappointing to see this but it is the truth. Ninja is far better than run, pup with alternator out tanks run. The 2hr is not really useful, nullifying magic really have no value, because right after that one physical attack and I'm dead. The 2hr ability must be changed to absorb magical attacks for 30 seconds, that would be a good 2hr especially do to the rarity of mobs killing you with magic. Run was terribly rushed and honestly I do not know what they can do to fix it, anything short of giving run job traits or piece of equipment like aegis the job will never be able to tank or magic tank.

Give us fast cast to reapply shields would help.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Lets face it RUN cannot tank, and more importantly run is NOT being allowed to tank. Aegis Pld is better than run is almost every capacity. Aegis for Pld have a -45% mdt reduction against ALL elements not to mention a high block rate for physical attacks. Run tanks cannot hold NM mobs because enhancing magic is weak and take too long to cast. Moreover the rehashing of low tier spells from other jobs, lack of original magic lead run into what other see as a joke job.

I know the job is not finished but the Aegis shield alone beat the entire run job class as it refers to tanking, its disappointing to see this but it is the truth. Ninja is far better than run, pup with alternator out tanks run. The 2hr is not really useful, nullifying magic really have no value, because right after that one physical attack and I'm dead. The 2hr ability must be changed to absorb magical attacks for 30 seconds, that would be a good 2hr especially do to the rarity of mobs killing you with magic. Run was terribly rushed and honestly I do not know what they can do to fix it, anything short of giving run job traits or piece of equipment like aegis the job will never be able to tank or magic tank.

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Speak for yourself, I'm quite happy with RUN's ability to tank.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Speak for yourself, I'm quite happy with RUN's ability to tank.

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If your happy with run tanking, you must not be familiar with aegis pld tanking.

Right now, RUN can happily tank level 99 content (Arch-ultima/omega etc). That's not bad considering we have no merits/AF/relic/empy gear, nor do we have a 'special weapon/grip/ammo' since we can't use shields.

Once we get merits/af/empy/relic gear, RUN should be able to tank adoulin content (if SE don't change their minds and give merits etc for DDing instead of tanking). But we shall see.

Tanking on RUN requires more thought than tanking on PLD, sure, but that doesn't mean that the job is bad.

oh boy. here we go with the "aegis" pld vs rune thing again. are you seriously going to compare a 100 mil relic shield etc vs a job without there ultimate weapon yet? dont remember pld tanking magic well back then till that ultimate shield came out. anyways so far the job works very well in the magic def. useful protecting your whole pt members with magic or magic TP. while testing it out on Orthrus etc was eating Acheron Flame for like 90+ dmg or so spamming Valiance/magic shield for members, dmg 200-300. without would be 1400+ or so.

this job came out not to long ago and iam starting to see how strong/useful it can be. in time once it gets all the buffs then let compare the jobs on a fair level.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Once we get merits/af/empy/relic gear, RUN should be able to tank adoulin content (if SE don't change their minds and give merits etc for DDing instead of tanking). But we shall see.

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Unless they solve the issue of dealing with multi element casting mobs and our paper bag defense, aegis pld will always be a better option.

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Originally Posted by nyheen

oh boy. here we go with the "aegis" pld vs rune thing again. are you seriously going to compare a 100 mil relic shield etc vs a job without there ultimate weapon yet? dont remember pld tanking magic well back then till that ultimate shield came out. anyways so far the job works very well in the magic def. useful protecting your whole pt members with magic or magic TP. while testing it out on Orthrus etc was eating Acheron Flame for like 90+ dmg or so spamming Valiance/magic shield for members, dmg 200-300. without would be 1400+ or so.

this job came out not to long ago and iam starting to see how strong/useful it can be. in time once it gets all the buffs then let compare the jobs on a fair level.

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Run has it ultimate weapon/gear its called "Delve" and it take more that a 100 mil gil to max out those pieces. Comparing Aegis to the run job its completely fair, Our wards and runes are a complete joke compared to the aegis shield. Furthermore SE have plans to even enhance the aegis shield, as with all relics. One for all and valiance is the only abilities we offer that helps protect the whole pt. Run is a support dd at best and SE needs to do something. Redo SP ability and for the love of god, fix liement ward it is aweful.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Furthermore SE have plans to even enhance the aegis shield, as with all relics.

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I'm pretty sure they said Instruments and Shields would be exempt from the forthcoming revamp of super weapons. I do agree with you though RUN's paper bag physical defense is appalling.

Ummm... RUN's 'paper bag physical defense'?

My RUN has -47% PDT (-34% if I'm using Bereaver). Use the right food and you can have well over 700 def BEFORE cocoon or defender.

The only reason people see RUN as having 'paper bag physical defense' is because they're gearing to DD.

Well, may as well throw in some two-cents here.

RUN is terrible, it's an absolute joke, but to be fair pup/dnc/blu all started out as complete garbage also.

It's kind of like giving a 2005 ninja ragnarok, yeah all the "special" people would do it, but we all know that putting a Heavy weapon on a Light job is just /fail. Facepalm city.

Now, RUN has some good aspects, it's on a nice track to be useful in 2016, we're beta testing it, a concept that has become ever more apparent as of late. But for right now, its pathetic, and if you bring it/use it at anything that it should've been useful for it pales in comparison.

Let's take a single casting element mob, maybe Glavoid, everyone is afraid of Glavoid and it's instant death Disgorges, RUN could potentially be the best job possible for killing Glavoid. It only uses earth, you have EPIC LEVEL earth resistance and magic mitigation.

Now, by contrast, let's take Botolus Rex. You have -ZERO- chance of stopping magic damage from an enemy that isn't limited to one element. (as someone did mention) (and yes, you have fool's drinks, let's pretend these don't exist just for a moment, please, ok?) Rex is going to DEVASTATE you, as will "most" enemies in the game. Only a select few are limited to using one element. Making RUN "essentially" immune to ONE element and leaving it exposed to the other SEVEN, is a rather sizable logic flaw.

Now, let's say for example that RUN only had 2 Runes, light and dark, in which each covered the FOUR elements associated with it, you could legitimately have a viable reason to use RUN.

It's still not the best answer, but 4/8 is much more reasonable than 1/8... when Aegis covers 9/8 (non-elemental magic damage ((meteor))).

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Ummm... RUN's 'paper bag physical defense'?
My RUN has -47% PDT (-34% if I'm using Bereaver). Use the right food and you can have well over 700 def BEFORE cocoon or defender.
The only reason people see RUN as having 'paper bag physical defense' is because they're gearing to DD.

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I'm not saying its unworkable but honestly it's biggest damage mitigating skills for the physical side of things is it's evasion and parrying if these actually were worth a damn I wouldn't mind its physical defense. Essentially the two skills i mentioned are meant to act as a equivalent to a PLD's shield ( a form of damage mitigation), except anything worth fighting will laugh at the evasion and parrying because they are so useless when fighting anything that is of much higher level than you.

So granted I understand as far as melee jobs are concerned its DEF isnt too bad but when it's supposed to be supplemented by things that don't work it just exacerbates the issue to the point that on the whole it leaves a lot to be desired.

Easy fix... implement Great Swords w/ -MDT% traits that can only be equipped by RUN...w/ their parry skill maxed, this should assist in ways that help offset physical damage while at the same time bolstering the RUN's already heavy magic evasion/reduction abilities.

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Originally Posted by xiozen

Easy fix... implement Great Swords w/ -MDT% traits that can only be equipped by RUN...w/ their parry skill maxed, this should assist in ways that help offset physical damage while at the same time bolstering the RUN's already heavy magic evasion/reduction abilities.

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MDT isn't the only problem, PDT is, too. No job should be required to /BLU to fulfill it's role.

*Yawn* Doesn't rambling on and on about what job is useless get old with you professional endgamers?

I've actually played the job, unlike you worthless theorycrafters from the forum that shall go unnamed, and see RUN as good in what it was DESIGNED to do: take magic damage that other jobs couldn't take and minimize any magical damage they might otherwise take.

Taking Physical Damage is mainly a Paladin thing. Magical Damage is Rune Fencer's calling card. Could RUN use some Job Traits and/or gear (beyond Dux Scale mail, of course) to make it more solid? I'd certainly take it, but don't come on these forums with dishonest comparisons in some attempt to foment more job discrimination than is already in this game.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

*Yawn* Doesn't rambling on and on about what job is useless get old with you professional endgamers?

I've actually played the job, unlike you worthless theorycrafters from the forum that shall go unnamed, and see RUN as good in what it was DESIGNED to do: take magic damage that other jobs couldn't take and minimize any magical damage they might otherwise take.

Taking Physical Damage is mainly a Paladin thing. Magical Damage is Rune Fencer's calling card. Could RUN use some Job Traits and/or gear (beyond Dux Scale mail, of course) to make it more solid? I'd certainly take it, but don't come on these forums with dishonest comparisons in some attempt to foment more job discrimination than is already in this game.

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http://i.imgur.com/JNOMb.gif

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Magical Damage is Rune Fencer's calling card.

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So where are all the single element magical damage dealing no/minimal melee damage dealing mobs that would allow it to shine above even Aegis as the superior magical tank?

You could argue well the AF/Relic/Emp/Mythic/Merits are all missing but all of that will have to address the fact that when something casts multiple elemental damage types and deals high physical damage RUN's capabilities go to the OP's point of Aegis > RUN.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Right now, RUN can happily tank level 99 content (Arch-ultima/omega etc). That's not bad considering we have no merits/AF/relic/empy gear, nor do we have a 'special weapon/grip/ammo' since we can't use shields.

Once we get merits/af/empy/relic gear, RUN should be able to tank adoulin content (if SE don't change their minds and give merits etc for DDing instead of tanking). But we shall see.

Tanking on RUN requires more thought than tanking on PLD, sure, but that doesn't mean that the job is bad.

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Not to pop your bubble Babekeke, but any job able to equip PDT/MDT can tank Arch-Omega/Ultima with a friendly WHM/SCH in the backline. OP is talking about content which currently is handled solely by Aegis/Ochain PLD. Delve NMs, Naakuals, Naakual megabosses etc. If RUN can't handle those equally well as PLD, then it can't be called a real tank. Looking at the damage output, it can't be called damage dealer either. A "wasted party slot" would fit the best. A very well geared PLD (supported by one-two healers) can hold all five NMs during Morimar plasm farm, for example. One of those NMs spams magic a lot. Other one has nasty breath attack. Can RUN do the same type of tanking? Can RUN tank Tojil? That's what bothers the OP.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Lets face it RUN cannot tank, and more importantly run is NOT being allowed to tank. Aegis Pld is better than run is almost every capacity. Aegis for Pld have a -45% mdt reduction against ALL elements not to mention a high block rate for physical attacks.

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That's level 95 aegis. Level 99 aegis gives -50% mdt, and it surpasses the normal 50% mdt cap to go as high as 87.5% reduction. This would only require the pld to wear 37.5% mdt in addition to aegis. Shell V gives 24% of this before any gear/merits which alter it, so roughly 13.5% MDT allows PLD to take 1/8 magic damage to all elements of damage all the time.

Now let's say instead that you're a rune fencer and you manage to get 1,000 fire resist. The most you can resist a fire attack down to is 1/8 normal damage, but you're completely vulnerable to the other elements, not to mention that no matter how much magic evasion you're rocking, the mob attacking you always has a small chance to hit you unresisted.

So yes, I mostly agree with the point you raise. True, Aegis is a relic and takes a serious investment to create, but MDT, MDB and m.eva are all supposed to be rune fencer's thing, so a fully decked-out rune fencer should trump a fully decked-out paladin. There are still many adjustments which need to be made, and it will take a long time to iron out the details. Next update will see AF gear and merits. Then who knows how long until relic/empy armor. Then who knows how long until some form of "ultimate" gear is released.

If you're talking about Aegis PLD's ability to withstand more damage, then you're correct. But I think what RUN brings to the table is the unique ability to both withstand a certain amount of magical damage, as well as dish out it's fair share. RUN (imo) has many more tricks to generate enmity than PLD. I think RUN isn't meant to be the sort of 18-person tank that PLD can be, but I think in 6-person content, RUN is a suitable tank that can also deal a fair share of damage.

What are you smoking vivi?

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Originally Posted by Vivivivi

If you're talking about Aegis PLD's ability to withstand more damage, then you're correct. But I think what RUN brings to the table is the unique ability to both withstand a certain amount of magical damage, as well as dish out it's fair share. RUN (imo) has many more tricks to generate enmity than PLD. I think RUN isn't meant to be the sort of 18-person tank that PLD can be, but I think in 6-person content, RUN is a suitable tank that can also deal a fair share of damage.

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Perhaps some day, that will be the case, but RUN's damage is sadly as lack-luster as their ability to tank. True, it does slightly better damage than PLD, but RUN's biggest calling right now is abyssea where a large number of the NMs use only 1 element of damage. RUN still lacks barlight and bardark for a number of these enemies, and even with over 300 resist to an element, these enemies still seem to have no difficulty landing status effects on a RUN. And RUN currently has nothing to gain from abyssea.

So yeah, RUN has a long ways to go.

At the moment, Rune Fencer is basically another job in FFXI's utility melee pile. Rune Fencer has a bunch of a magic damage mitigation abilities, but the job still can't tank anything that any other competent melee with competent support couldn't tank.

Merits and JSE will definitely help a trait and ability dependent job like Rune Fencer climb over a few Puppetmasters or Dancers in that pile, but I'll be shocked if those are all the job needs to climb out entirely.

Of course, nearly the same thing could be said about a Paladin without an Aegis or Ochain. If Paladin's progression is the standard for a job meant to tank from day one, there's a very real possibility that the lion's share of Rune Fencer's defensive ability will come from the job's Mythic weapon.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Doesn't rambling on and on about what job is useless get old...

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Yes. That's one of the many reasons it be nice if nearly useless jobs were made a bit more useful.

If single-element bar- spells were sufficient, PLD/WHM and PLD/RDM would have discovered that a long time ago.

EDIT: Hell, PLD/BRD

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Of course, nearly the same thing could be said about a Paladin without an Aegis or Ochain. If Paladin's progression is the standard for a job meant to tank from day one, there's a very real possibility that the lion's share of Rune Fencer's defensive ability will come from the job's Mythic weapon.

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I do hope you're wrong about that. Not only are the mythics substantially more difficult to obtain than relics or empyreans, but a RUN's damage potential and ability to hold hate are tied directly to the base damage of their weapon. Since the game is going into vertical progression and it has been mentioned that this coming RME update will be the last, it won't be long before RUN's mythic would hurt them more than help them.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Ummm... RUN's 'paper bag physical defense'?

My RUN has -47% PDT (-34% if I'm using Bereaver). Use the right food and you can have well over 700 def BEFORE cocoon or defender.

The only reason people see RUN as having 'paper bag physical defense' is because they're gearing to DD.

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gearring to DD has a purpose. with very little to work with in the enmity department in todays Zerg-heavy environment the only thing we can do for hate is try to keep up on damage. It's going to be interesting to see where SE goes with our end-game JSE, if they add def likely our damage suffers and vice-versa. considering we are on the middle tier for armor-and to an extent weapon-I'm expecting a mix of the 2, leaving us lagging in both aspects, and probably hurting our enmity all around, an issue for an intended tank. Don't get me wrong, play the job well and we aren't as pathetic as some of the complaints would lead someone who has never played Rune to believe, but pld and nin are both ahead of us in tanking simply due to having hate tools to work with; yes, I know DD can take that hate and never let it go, it doesn't change that they are still ahead of us on grabbing it in the first place.

I just really wish SE would announce (as they are with geo) some of what they are planning so we could comment on it inteligently instead of having to guess or put out wish lists. I also wish they had done this sooner, first impressions are often the last impressions for many players, and since we were rolled out without merits, JSE and end-game weapons available that first impression is that we are weak in comparrison to the other jobs out there. Seriously, beast is just overcoming the XP thing that hasn't been a factor for like 8 years now, pup is just now starting to be written without the mandatory "lol" in front of it, and yes, I've heard "lol-run" already-that is NOT what I want out of one of my favorite jobs to play.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I do hope you're wrong about that. Not only are the mythics substantially more difficult to obtain than relics or empyreans, but a RUN's damage potential and ability to hold hate are tied directly to the base damage of their weapon. Since the game is going into vertical progression and it has been mentioned that this coming RME update will be the last, it won't be long before RUN's mythic would hurt them more than help them.

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Well, it may not be as hard as a current mythic. Just because they dubbed it a "mythic" doesn't mean it will be made in exactly the same fashion as previous mythics. In fact, I would bet it has an entirely new quest based in adoulin, very likely requiring large ammounts of bayld and plasm and nakuul kills and so forth. I think the term "mythic" was just used to imply that it would be a job specific weapon custom tailored for run (or geo).

I really don't believe that they'll manage to fix run up to be a tank, even when all's said and done. I feel like in the end, it will likely be adjusted to be what it is now, a support DD. Just a better and effective support DD. It is really hard to tell where run will be when all is said and done. They are still such a new and very unfinished job. I just know I'll be watching closely. One day it might be one of those jobs you find at least one of in each alliance.

......then... it's not really mythic, is it? If it doesn't use the same quest line as other mythic weapons, it's not a mythic. It will be given a new name just like how mythics aren't called relics and empyreans aren't called mythics.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

*Yawn* Doesn't rambling on and on about what job is useless get old with you professional endgamers?

I've actually played the job, unlike you worthless theorycrafters from the forum that shall go unnamed, and see RUN as good in what it was DESIGNED to do: take magic damage that other jobs couldn't take and minimize any magical damage they might otherwise take.

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Which is therefore one of the weakest niche designs you could use on a job that is essentially supposed to tank.

It'd be one thing if RUN, PLD and NIN had perks on top of being viable tanks for content, with PLD being sword and board, NIN being shadows and dodge and RUN being able to absorb/mitigate magic better than either. What appears to be the problem is that the job is seemingly designed to mitigate magic and only magic. And even then, as pointed out earlier, it is rather clunky.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

......then... it's not really mythic, is it? If it doesn't use the same quest line as other mythic weapons, it's not a mythic. It will be given a new name just like how mythics aren't called relics and empyreans aren't called mythics.

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I don't see any particularly good reason why that's true. I believe "mythic" describes the nature of the weapon, rather than the way of acquisition. Keep in mind, this is the first time in ffxi history that a brand new r/m/e weapon has been added to the previously existing ones, and there's no written rule that states all future weapons must come from the same quest. Just food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

I don't see any particularly good reason why that's true. I believe "mythic" describes the nature of the weapon, rather than the way of acquisition. Keep in mind, this is the first time in ffxi history that a brand new r/m/e weapon has been added to the previously existing ones, and there's no written rule that states all future weapons must come from the same quest. Just food for thought.

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oh what is this here...http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

ps. i believe they will add mythics for run and geo in the past they have said the relics were made without pup/blu/cor/dnc/sch in mind so they dont get them. this cant be true of a weapon that is specific to your job~ unlike relics and empys there is more then 1 weapon of each type there are 3 dags, 3 swords, 3 staff, 2 h2h, 2 Marksmanship, 1 axe, 1 ga, 1 gk, 1 polearm, 1 scythe, 1 club, 1 katana. :) could always add a gs and another club

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Originally Posted by Calamity

I don't see any particularly good reason why that's true. I believe "mythic" describes the nature of the weapon, rather than the way of acquisition. Keep in mind, this is the first time in ffxi history that a brand new r/m/e weapon has been added to the previously existing ones, and there's no written rule that states all future weapons must come from the same quest. Just food for thought.

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As I said.

Ok, I'm thoroughly confused, Calamity. I can understand a belief that new ultimate weapons will be added to the game, but such ultimate weapons would be called something besides "mythic". For example, delve weapons are not called mythic weapons. I can understand RUN being given a mythic weapon with completion requirements identical to other mythic weapons. What I cannot understand is RUN being given a "mythic" weapon which not only has different completion requirements, but better stats than other jobs mythic weapons.

There is 1 mythic weapon per job, minus the 2 new jobs currently. Are you saying they'll release a whole new set of weapons for every job and they will call these weapons "mythic" weapons? The word "mythic" has a set meaning in FFXI. If someone says they have bard mythic, they mean they have carnwenhan. Not gjallarhorn, not daurdabla, not twashtar, not mandau, not leisilonu. Is your definition of "mythic weapon" different from ours? Is that the source of our confusion?

I never said or implied anything about it being better than other mythic weapons. And I don't understand the confusion. As I said, I believe that the word "mythic" describes the weapon itself. Meaning it's not gonna be a generic GS. It's going to be a specific weapon that is custom tailored only for run. It's simple.

I swear, I should know better than to hypothesize and think outside the box on this forum. people don't want original thought here. Everyone is so stuck in this mentality of "Well it was this way before, so it will be this way in the future no matter what!" Forget it, I'm done trying to defend the fact that I have an imagination.

Look, Calamity, I meant you no offense. I'm sorry if I came across as that. But if you say "mythic weapon" in FFXI, you mean one of these 20 weapons:

Conqueror, Glanzfaust, Yagrush, Laevateinn, Murgleis, Vajra, Burtgang, Liberator, Aymur, Carnwenhan, Gastraphetes, Kogarasumaru, Nagi, Ryunohige, Nirvana, Tizona, Death Penalty, Kenkonken, Terpsichore, Tupsimati

These weapons all require you to complete the same quests in order to obtain them. If a weapon does not require you to complete the same duties, tasks, and deeds as these 20 weapons, they are no more a "mythic weapon" than joyeuse.

Look, you're missing what I'm trying to get at. Say the reward from the quest got you a GS that at 99, looked something like:

Tournesol
(Great Sword) All Races
DMG: 147 Delay: 444 Accuracy +40
Additional effect: Stun
"Runic"
Lv. 99 RUN

And under the WS description it says something like:

"Lowers target's magic defense. Runeblade/Tournesol: Absorbs magic damage taken"

Now, one look at this tells us "Hey, that looks exactly like a relic." But it didn't come from the same quest so it's 100% impossible.


Or, a GS that looks like:

Tournesol
(Great Sword) All Races
DMG: 145 Delay: 430 STR+13 MND+13
"Runic"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Lv. 99 RUN

Sure looks like an emp right? But nope. It isn't a ToM quested weapon, so it just plain can't be.

But we're talking about mythics right? So if they got a weapon like:

Tournesol
(Great Sword) All Races
DMG: 146 Delay: 450
Magical damage taken -20%
Enhances "Rune Enhancement" Ability V
"Runic"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk.
Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Lv. 99 RUN

If you saw a weapon that looked like that come out of a different, but equally hard quest to the other mythics, you would NOT call that a mythic?

Anyway, that's the point I was going for when I said I believe "Mythic" describes the weapon, and NOT the quest. That is all -.-

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Look, Calamity, I meant you no offense. I'm sorry if I came across as that. But if you say "mythic weapon" in FFXI, you mean one of these 20 weapons:

Conqueror, Glanzfaust, Yagrush, Laevateinn, Murgleis, Vajra, Burtgang, Liberator, Aymur, Carnwenhan, Gastraphetes, Kogarasumaru, Nagi, Ryunohige, Nirvana, Tizona, Death Penalty, Kenkonken, Terpsichore, Tupsimati

These weapons all require you to complete the same quests in order to obtain them. If a weapon does not require you to complete the same duties, tasks, and deeds as these 20 weapons, they are no more a "mythic weapon" than joyeuse.

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BLU, PUP, COR, DNC and SCH have their own ways of obtaining artifact armor, distinct from the previous 15 jobs, yet we still call these sets artifact armor.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

Anyway, that's the point I was going for when I said I believe "Mythic" describes the weapon, and NOT the quest. That is all -.-

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Adoulin shared enough similarities with Aht Urhgan that even the quests could be made to mirror the original mythic ones.
7 Naakuals to obtain titles from, 10.000.000 bayld and 1.000.000 plasm to buy items, obtain a full set of yggzi beads from all 7 delve regions. With requirements like that, they can't be called anything BUT mythics.
Unless SE adds weapons like these for all 22 jobs, rather then just RUN and GEO, but that's what CL20 stuff is for.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

BLU, PUP, COR, DNC and SCH have their own ways of obtaining artifact armor, distinct from the previous 15 jobs, yet we still call these sets artifact armor.

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The quests for RNG AF are unique from the quests for BRD AF, yet both are still considered AF. You are correct to the extent that there are no coffers in ToAU or WotG zones, so they had to get a little creative with the acquisition methods, but every job's AF requires you to use zones from the expansion pack it was released in and gives you unique tasks which share very few parallels.

SCH and DNC were released after ToAU, yet their mythics involve the same method of obtainment as every other job. Why should one believe that RUN and GEO will get their own unique 6-month-long questline to obtain a weapon which will be replaced by whatever comes after delve?

Is it possible? Yes, I will not deny it's possible that RUN and GEO will get unique acquisition methods for their mythics, completely unlike the other 20 jobs. Is it likely? No, SE already has their plate full without designing an epic questline specifically tailored to just those 2 jobs. They'd be better off just plugging those 2 jobs into the same old system they've been using the whole time. Would it be good for the game if it happened? Arguable. Though I guarantee players would complain one way or the other.

Is this conversation silly? Yes. As such, I yield to Calamty's assessment of the situation that it is less important where the weapon comes from as long as it is relatively equal to the utility of other mythic weapons. Though whenever someone says "mythic weapon", I will still automatically think "30,000 alexandrite".

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It's kind of like giving a 2005 ninja ragnarok, yeah all the "special" people would do it, but we all know that putting a Heavy weapon on a Light job is just /fail. Facepalm city.

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This is pretty much the issue. RUN's issue is that it completely lacks in decent sword options as well as any form of native DW (or attack boost).

Here's the issue with GS guys, it absolutely requires large amounts of attack to perform well, this is why DRK and WAR (prior to delve) could put out so much damage with it. As RUN is totally lacking of this trying to use a GS is a bad idea. There ~is~ a niche that needs to be filled now that Twilight has lost it's luster, the niche of a DD that deals non-physical melee damage. The closest we have now is enspell'd / FS MNK's or Req / Sang spamming BLUs.

Now give RUN two very powerful swords and hopefully some form of MAB (tier 1 is fine) and they could spam Req / Sang while also dealing magic elemental damage and thus become a much desired utility job.

RUN is not a tank, will never be a tank, and was never a tank. Those who think it is or will be don't have the slightest clue what a tank is or what's involved with being one.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

I believe that the word "mythic" describes the weapon itself.

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Stop sayin this i posted a link showin that SE calls them Mythics because they are the things of myth and legend as they are part of Balranh's collection. Heres the link again its in the frist 5 lines http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

Mythic does not describe the weapon itself but specificly its origin

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Originally Posted by saevel

RUN is not a tank, will never be a tank, and was never a tank. Those who think it is or will be don't have the slightest clue what a tank is or what's involved with being one.

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You should tell SE this before they introduced Rune Fencer as a new tanking class that potent against magic.