adieu FFXIV people

I now bid adieu to all you ffxiv players that are leaving to go beta test, how does everyone think that's going to impact the FFXI community?

Judging by the initial reports, the beta seems worse than the alpha. At this rate it won't be long until they're back, where they'll get disappointed as well, because SE will take even more personnel away to work on A Realm Reloaded.

Uh, why would anyone leave for a BETA test? It's possible to play two games. Shocking, I know.

I think ultimately FFXIV, when it's actually released, will benefit FFXI in the long run, once it fails and people start migrating back to FFXI, including people who have never played it before.

that'd be awesome, lol but IDK some people might just go to 14 and forget about 11 cuz they wanna lose themselves in the new one. IDK but ya I hope that's what happens I've played xi for too long X.X to want to switch

Square Enix, what are you doing? Square Enix, STAHP!

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Originally Posted by Helel

Uh, why would anyone leave for a BETA test?

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They're all already gone.

Some people seem to think the beta is an 'early access' code for FFXIV.

It's not. It's buggy; they are going to keep rolling back, deleting characters and performing maintenance. Sure, there might be the small window of opportunity to try a few quests - but anyone "leaving" to play FFXIV is going to be sorely disappointed; and likely the type of person who will proclaim the game is crap based on their experience in the beta.

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Originally Posted by Helel

It's possible to play two games.

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Not really. Not when both are heavily involved MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Some people seem to think the beta is an 'early access' code for FFXIV.

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That's how beta testers are paid, instead of with actual money.

Though I find it funny this is coming from someone who has access to the XI test servers.

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likely the type of person who will proclaim the game is crap based on their experience in the beta.

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I dunno, the XIV beta testers saying that were eerily prescient...

The difference there is, XI has a 'test server' for new 'features'. That's a million miles from an unreleased game in 'beta' testing its core foundation.

Plus, let's be honest, you don't need access to the test server to know what direction this game is heading in :-P

not a whole lot. personally while I intend to play the FFXIV, I also still intend to play the new expansion and its new jobs.

not sure why people think ff14 will impact ff11 population a lot. On 1.0 launch there was a little enquiry on ff14 and only ~10% had played ff11. Both games willl exist, and personally fromn what ive seen, they make a HD wow clone. cool story bro, im not very intrested... But i know that's the kind of game american like.

Loving the FFXIV hate here. Personally I hope it does very well and I couldn't care less about the population of FFXI. If it gets too low SE will just merge servers again so don't worry FFXI is not gonna die. But I'm excited about something new using the same mobs etc as final fantasy. Anyone else from FFXI like the idea of FFXIV or all haters?

Been playing both... so like meh i don't hate any of em...
Both like to disappiont me so w/e XD

Playing both, and to be honest ARR has great potential, that those choice crybabies like to try to cut down but yeah. If XIs new expansion doesnt sink me back in, ill be going to ARR to have a new FF experience.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

Playing both, and to be honest ARR has great potential, that those choice crybabies like to try to cut down but yeah. If XIs new expansion doesnt sink me back in, ill be going to ARR to have a new FF experience.

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That's shallow, If you're that bored with FFXI it's not like there aren't other FISH in the sea of MMOs you could choose from. It seems like from your logic only two MMO's exist to choose from.

So why did I make this comment to you? It's because you called players who don't like FFXIV choice crybabies. If someone doesn't like something and they complain it's their right just as much as it is yours to like it. Promotion and damage control has some impact but headliners that are negative can have the reverse effect. Don't forget that the "Final Fantasy" and "Square Enix" brands are no longer the trending names they once where. It's obvious this was caused by bad choices along the way and the result was people complaining/quitting from them.

The players who leave for bata aren't going to impact FFXI much. The players on the game now are mostly very long standing subscribers. Some players have jumped through hoops in places so high there is no longer a breathable atmosphere. Sure you have a few that strayed away and decided to come back after hearing about a new expansion but still, these types of players don't leave for trivial things easily. If they did FFXI would have already been dead several years ago.

It just seems to me that everyone on here is crying because FFXIV is not a modern FFXI remake so, like children, they throw their toys out the pram and say they don't like it. Nobody technically has a right to say because ARR hasn't been released yet and the beta is absolutely not the final product and a lot can and will change. People saying that FFXIV sucks now are obviously just those children crying because FFXIV is not a remade FFXI and their beloved FFXI is being left by the dev team for a newer game. It's life and nobody is forcing you to move on, this games still alive and I'm glad it is, but you're acting childish. Times change, and that applies to literally everything. No matter what, time will change everything, whether that's a good thing or not is up to the user/player but just remember it then becomes opinion and to every opinion there's an opposite view. The most shallow thing I think, is saying FFXIV sucks when they haven't even tried ARR (which is everyone except the team working on it, as the beta is not a complete game and was never intended to be complete).

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Originally Posted by Jaall

It just seems to me that everyone on here is crying because FFXIV is not a modern FFXI remake so, like children, they throw their toys out the pram and say they don't like it.

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The Latin phrase of today is "ad hominem!" Be sure to scream real loud whenever you see an example of it, kids!

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Nobody technically has a right to say because ARR hasn't been released yet and the beta is absolutely not the final product and a lot can and will change.

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The same was said back in 2010.

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People saying that FFXIV sucks now are obviously just those children crying because FFXIV is not a remade FFXI and their beloved FFXI is being left by the dev team for a newer game.

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As has been mentioned quite loudly in these forums in the past, it's not that the dev team has left that has us bent out of shape, but that we're still paying them for the privilege.

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It's life and nobody is forcing you to move on,

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On the other hand, anybody choosing to stay in spite of the dwindling rate-of-return on their entertainment dollars is a fool.

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this games still alive

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For certain definitions of "alive."

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The most shallow thing I think, is saying FFXIV sucks when they haven't even tried ARR

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Maybe, but keep in mind that S-E spent nearly two full years saying "It doesn't suck any more, really!" You can't expect the playerbase to continue to give S-E the benefit of the doubt after the umpteenth time they've called "Wolf!"

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(which is everyone except the team working on it, as the beta is not a complete game and was never intended to be complete).

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You also can't say that game betas bear no relation to the final game.

If people pay for FFXI then they should be happy enough with how FFXI is atm and not care about how good/bad FFXIV is doing because at the end of the day they are 2 separate games. If they are unhappy and stay playing a game that isn't good then there's no helping them. I realise it's people's nature to complain about everything and nature for some people to go off crying when they don't like something but I and most other people would consider that childish.

FFXI isn't as alive as it was but the way I meant was still running. You all complain now, as SE lowers their support on this game, but just wait till the day it really dies. I'm not saying that's now but it will inevitably happen, so all I can say is <<Good Luck!>>.

FFXIV beta is in its first stages and many games have had noticeable changes after betas because that's the whole point of them. Community testing does a lot for a game because it irons out most of its creases. When FFXIV was first released yea it wasn't fantastic but it wasn't completely un playable. The reason it was such a flop is because there are better MMO's out there such as WoW and GW, and it didn't live up to FFXI standards. Now it has changed dramatically and from what people have said even the beta is a remarkable change since the first release. I never said people should give SE benefit of the doubt BUT it is still shallow because until the full version is released you are basing the full version off of an incomplete "demo" designed only to iron out all the bugs. Like people have said many a time, beta's aren't early access to a game, they are there for solving problems only, that is why you are asked tester based questions when you sign up, like "how often do you play" and "on what console do you play".

No point of defending ffxiv to this crowd.

Haters gonna hate no matter how good ffxiv ends up being.

And btw I love how ppl complain about ffxiv being a clone of wow or any other game, ffxi itself is an eq clone and like all clones doesnt measure up to the original, even if it is still good on its own

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Originally Posted by Monchat

not sure why people think ff14 will impact ff11 population a lot. On 1.0 launch there was a little enquiry on ff14 and only ~10% had played ff11. Both games willl exist, and personally fromn what ive seen, they make a HD wow clone. cool story bro, im not very intrested... But i know that's the kind of game american like.

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Every single person I ever talked to when FFXIV was up played FFXI. I would always ask them what server they played on and they would always have an answer.

So people that are defending 14, what do you think will happen to a game that failed the first time after what SE did 11 and it was making them money. That is what will keep people away from 14, SE doesn't learn from their mistakes and keeps making the same ones over and over. So in a couple of years SE will get it in their heads again to make another MMO and pay for it off the backs of which ever player base is left. So if 14 does take off it's just telling SE they can do it and get away with it.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

So people that are defending 14, what do you think will happen to a game that failed the first time after what SE did 11 and it was making them money. That is what will keep people away from 14, SE doesn't learn from their mistakes and keeps making the same ones over and over. So in a couple of years SE will get it in their heads again to make another MMO and pay for it off the backs of which ever player base is left. So if 14 does take off it's just telling SE they can do it and get away with it.

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SE did learn from their mistakes. They had apologized for their mistakes that were made on FF!4, replaced a lot of the lead positions including producer Tanaka. They got a new producer Yoshi-P who seems really enthusiastic about making it the best game he can and works crazy hours as well. If you watched any of the FF14 videos they released they have made a lot of progress on the game and its sharpening up to be a really good game and its up to the standard of the modern MMO.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

So if 14 does take off it's just telling SE they can do it and get away with it.

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Exactly what Zumi said, also even if FFXIV doesn't take off SE will try again because that's what game designers do! If every game developer gave up with a failed release we would have a LOT less games than there are now. I know that you will then fire back at me "FFXIV isn't the first fail game" and that is your opinion. Now look at FFXIII. FFXIII-2 was a great game despite the bad publicity with FFXIII which shows SE do learn from mistakes and improve on them as much as they can. FFXIII-2 wasn't fantastic but like I've said, times change, games change, everyone seems to be stuck in the past and can't take change. It's not like FFXI has gone anywhere, you can still play it. Deal with the fact that you can't have everything you want and that every game developer, not just SE, makes mistakes and bad games. Nobodies forcing you to play anything so why should you care?

Leaving for a beta? What a dumb thing to suggest.

Maybe when the game is released.

I think the topic was made more or less because people will choose to leave FFXI for FFXIV based on the beta most likely. If the beta does not live up to their expectations, they may very well call it quits on FFXIV and just keep going with FFXI, on the other hand if the beta is amazing, they will likely plan to say goodbye to FFXI when the release for FFXIV approaches. I doubt people would actually leave the game for a beta, as it has been said in this thread a few times, however if the beta is good, I can easily see people getting ready to pack their virtual bags in preparation for FFXIV once they see how good the beta is.

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Originally Posted by Jaall

Exactly what Zumi said, also even if FFXIV doesn't take off SE will try again because that's what game designers do! If every game developer gave up with a failed release we would have a LOT less games than there are now. I know that you will then fire back at me "FFXIV isn't the first fail game" and that is your opinion. Now look at FFXIII. FFXIII-2 was a great game despite the bad publicity with FFXIII which shows SE do learn from mistakes and improve on them as much as they can. FFXIII-2 wasn't fantastic but like I've said, times change, games change, everyone seems to be stuck in the past and can't take change. It's not like FFXI has gone anywhere, you can still play it. Deal with the fact that you can't have everything you want and that every game developer, not just SE, makes mistakes and bad games. Nobodies forcing you to play anything so why should you care?

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You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. If 14 takes off and becomes a profitable game instead they will pull the same crap again. Things like taking 3 years to finish a expansion while diverting funds to a game that failed the first time is seen as acceptable. That is what will keep people away from 14 and will be brought up the most.

I dont think anything will change how SE does things. They've always taken years to create expansions and diverted resources to places where there really is no need. I mean they announced FF versus XIII so many years ago I cant remember and still not even a 2nd vid on the game. It took them years to create CoP and ToAU. I don't see why FFXIV would change how SE has been running their games for the past 15 years?

Also it's kinda a win win situation if that's what you're saying. If FFXIV ARR is released and is good, it shows that the money has been used effectively and the time taken to fix it has worked. If it doesn't work then they have a chance to learn, even though i highly doubt they would learn. They have a lot of money and are one of the biggest game developers, moving into other areas such as Tomb Raider, this is only one of their departments. SE will probably always stick by it's business plan because no matter how much of it's audience complains about them, it still seems to be working right?

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Originally Posted by Jaall

They have a lot of money and are one of the biggest game developers, moving into other areas such as Tomb Raider, this is only one of their departments.

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That is true, but you have to admit, Final Fantasy is Square Enix's flagship game, everything else may be out there with their name on it, but when you think Square Enix, you probably think Final Fantasy. At least, everyone I know does. The point of this being that if their flagship game falters, it can lead to people losing faith in SE, for instance, when FFXIII came out, some people were heavily disappointed, as such it kinda became a black mark on not only the franchise but the company as well, the same way FFXIV did.

Really when you look at it though, it seems as though Square's flagship game is going down hill, all recent installments have been sub-par in todays gaming world, the story just isn't the same magic it once was. Some people, myself included, are starting to think that SE is perhaps losing their touch, no game has matched up to the story of FFX for me, which is my favorite, and it seems as though the direction they have started to head with stories leaves me often confused or at least feeling out of place by compare to before.

I think SE makes great games sometimes, but other times they simply fail to deliver, and they often ignore feedback on how to improve, sometimes they listen though. It seems as though newer games are getting teams of newer people, FFXIII-2 for instance seemed to learn from much of the feedback from the original, and while the game was not perfect, it was a massive improvement, and I feel the same will be said of FFXIV in the end. The game will probably be good, but not perfect, and will still lag behind the bigger players in the MMO market, while keeping a group of fans all to itself, if for nothing more than the Final Fantasy title being slapped on it. I mean in all honesty, this game would probably have been dead by now except its called Final Fantasy, which got it a lot of players to start, and has most likely kept it going over the years.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

That is true, but you have to admit, Final Fantasy is Square Enix's flagship game, everything else may be out there with their name on it, but when you think Square Enix, you probably think Final Fantasy. At least, everyone I know does. The point of this being that if their flagship game falters, it can lead to people losing faith in SE, for instance, when FFXIII came out, some people were heavily disappointed, as such it kinda became a black mark on not only the franchise but the company as well, the same way FFXIV did.

Really when you look at it though, it seems as though Square's flagship game is going down hill, all recent installments have been sub-par in todays gaming world, the story just isn't the same magic it once was. Some people, myself included, are starting to think that SE is perhaps losing their touch, no game has matched up to the story of FFX for me, which is my favorite, and it seems as though the direction they have started to head with stories leaves me often confused or at least feeling out of place by compare to before.

I think SE makes great games sometimes, but other times they simply fail to deliver, and they often ignore feedback on how to improve, sometimes they listen though. It seems as though newer games are getting teams of newer people, FFXIII-2 for instance seemed to learn from much of the feedback from the original, and while the game was not perfect, it was a massive improvement, and I feel the same will be said of FFXIV in the end. The game will probably be good, but not perfect, and will still lag behind the bigger players in the MMO market, while keeping a group of fans all to itself, if for nothing more than the Final Fantasy title being slapped on it. I mean in all honesty, this game would probably have been dead by now except its called Final Fantasy, which got it a lot of players to start, and has most likely kept it going over the years.

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I agree with your sentiment in general, except that the concept of "losing their touch" is nothing new for SE. I think it's simply that they take a lot of risks and like to change things up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Often it works for a new set of people and alienates others. You can always look at overall sales or some other objective measure, but everyone's story is different.

I bought FF1 in 1990 because it had a crystal ball and swords on the cover. My friends and I soon became obsessed, and were nuts about US 2 and 3 for SNES. Then came VII and I was the only one in my group of 5 RPG fan friends who liked it. The rest proclaimed Final Fantasy "dead" because old faithful Square sold out and made a movie instead of a game to appeal to a larger audience.

My time came with X. It remains the only Final Fantasy game I didn't like and wish I never played. Many others loved it, but it was polarizing, and a shift again for lots of fans.

My point is, they've been doing the up-down, audience-shifting stuff from the beginning. For me the XIV development story is interesting. For the first time they get to redo the failure and see what happens. I'll try it out, but have no intention of leaving XI until I like XIV enough to spend my free time there. It will also depend on whether the people I play XI with will play/switch to XIV as well.

Merton knows where it's at.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

My time came with X. It remains the only Final Fantasy game I didn't like and wish I never played.

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AH HA HA HA! AH HA HA HA! AH HA HA HA!
http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/255016/tidus-laugh.gif
AH HA HA HA! AH HA HA HA! AH HA HA HA!

That makes me sad, 10 is my favorite... ;;

I <3 X, I can't wait for the HD remaster to come out :O I'ma buy it right away lol, like that my post got so much attention O.O but uh... hi pplz and stuffz :P otherwise uh... after reading everything, and seeing how the first couple of phases of XIV is running it seems like they are actually trying again, which since I'm prolly not gonna be too serious (I will play for you hide <3) about XIV, but... in actuality since this new directer seems like he cares and is enthusiastic I can't wait to see how SoA is gonna do, the music so far is kinda ok, but usually the preview music isn't the actual music that makes it in (I REALLY wish they brought in Ode to Heroes Fallen somewhere in WotG...) but otherwise ya this will be very interesting to see what is going to happen... but yes... I <3 X as well, X-2 sucked tho I'll agree with that, but X had some of the best quotes I've taken from a video game (in a sales job I use them >.>)

some of you are wondering about FFXIV:ARR at this point defending/hating it would be pointless as it isn't finished however if they dont fix one of the main issues that 1.0 had which was the system requirements too high for most of the players who initially tried it(it made most of the systems choke), it will fail just as 1.0 did

the comment about making most of the systems choke was the majority of the players who were excited about 1.0

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Originally Posted by wildsprite

some of you are wondering about FFXIV:ARR at this point defending/hating it would be pointless as it isn't finished however if they dont fix one of the main issues that 1.0 had which was the system requirements too high for most of the players who initially tried it(it made most of the systems choke), it will fail just as 1.0 did

the comment about making most of the systems choke was the majority of the players who were excited about 1.0

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Going by screenshots that flooded AH.com when the system check thing was released, it seems much better than it was.

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Originally Posted by wildsprite

some of you are wondering about FFXIV:ARR at this point defending/hating it would be pointless as it isn't finished [..]

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Hating it isn't pointless, because it does not depend on how good it is. I don't hate bad games, I just don't play them. FFXIV I hate, because of SE's attitude and its adverse effects on FFXI. It's entirely unrelated to the game itself. It could be the earthly manifestation of Christ, I still wouldn't be playing it and I'd hate it for what it did.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Hating it isn't pointless, because it does not depend on how good it is. I don't hate bad games, I just don't play them. FFXIV I hate, because of SE's attitude and its adverse effects on FFXI. It's entirely unrelated to the game itself. It could be the earthly manifestation of Christ, I still wouldn't be playing it and I'd hate it for what it did.

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There's no pleasing people like you. SE's attitude has been the same for FFXIV as it has been for every other game only difference is they've made it public because of FFXIV's first failure. The main gripe you have with FFXIV is that it has had a bad effect on FFXI but tbh it hasn't made a blind difference it's just how you perceive it. FFXI will always have gone the way it has, with the existence of FFXIV or not, either way it would have been replaced by another final fantasy because they have to move with the times to survive. Try running a business or making a game and you will understand.

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Originally Posted by Jaall

There's no pleasing people like you.

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Very untrue, I'm quite easily pleased. Why else would I be playing XI in its current state?

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Originally Posted by Jaall

The main gripe you have with FFXIV is that it has had a bad effect on FFXI but tbh it hasn't made a blind difference it's just how you perceive it. FFXI will always have gone the way it has, with the existence of FFXIV or not, either way it would have been replaced by another final fantasy because they have to move with the times to survive. Try running a business or making a game and you will understand.

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So I assume you understand them better than me, because you have made a game and are running a business?

They admitted themselves FFXI is running on a low crew right now, they frequently use it as an excuse not to implement very simple features. Assuming they aren't lying to us, what kind of company lets its most profitable venture in their entire history run on a skeleton crew, while increasing the developers on a game that brought them nothing but disgrace in the eyes of the public and was a huge financial flop?

In case you can't guess, it's the kind of company who would sacrifice both their profits and their loyal customers to erase a black mark on their record. They're trying to save face. And it's not really helping their outside appearance either, because people will not forget that XIV existed because of this. It hurt their image, no matter what XIV will turn out to be now. Many people will not even try it because of their opinion of the original. In a market with such a growth and new MMORPGs popping up in every direction, some of them even free, others with massive fan bases (such as The Elder Scrolls Online, which will actually coincide with the XIV release), how many do you think will go with "the remake of a horribly screwed up game" compared to any of the alternatives?

Trying to rescue XIV was a bad move in almost every logical way, yet they went on with it. Don't give me that "they're a big company, they know better than you" bullshit. If they knew better they wouldn't have lost assloads of money on that game. Even big companies can go broke, that's no argument for anything. Either tell me why I'm wrong or stop defending them.

You're wrong because very few people had even heard of FFXI and FFXIV in comparison to other MMO's and so the image is very easily rebuilt. Secondly they haven't cut any of the profits from FFXI, because guess what, you're still paying them. They realise that no matter how little they care for FFXI they can get away with it, so they have confidence in FFXI. I would bet that if everyone quit FFXI tomorrow they would go straight back to FFXI and put equal effort into both, but why should they if FFXI is stable? The best business plan would be to divert resources to the potential best product for as long as FFXI is making a steady income, which it is. You have just stated that no matter how FFXIV is, you will never leave FFXI, so you're playing into their hands. So in fact you are actually fuelling what you hate. Oh and by the way... I have run a company so I know exactly what it's like, and also done a master degree course in 3D animation which is very closely related to games design, in fact I actually worked along side game coders in a lot of my assignments.

Don't forget SE one and ONLY game is ffxi, and they have absolutely no right to work on other games. They have no right to take the money they make from one game and put it into another.

They have NO right to work on repairing their image that ffxiv v1 soiled. They have NO right to do ANYTHING outside of ffxi EVER

ffxi money should go to NOTHING but ffxi, tomb raider money should go to NOTHING but tomb raider, etc etc. If they want to rebuild ffxiv they should find the money elsewhere and NEVER take a DIME from our precious ffxi. All other games and the reputation of the company be damned.

I will NEVER EVER look at ANY other ff title, esp FFXIV because it TOOK ALL OUR MONEY AND RESOURCES FOR A FAIL GAME.

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Like I said before, no need to defend any other game to these ppl, they cant see past ffxi and they will hate a game they have never played just because they are butt hurt that after 10 yrs ffxi isnt getting se's full attn