Abyssea Update

I've noticed that abyssea is now old relivant content, but old none the less. I see people shouting for +1 and it seems harder and harder to attain these items.

Yesterday I went to help some new players get af3+1 materials. I could not get help so we duo'd the nm. Because the player is new, they didnt have additional jobs avialable. Point being farming is slow without the proper jobs and now it's even slower without people doing the content.

Someting needs to be adjusted here for new players. I see vw has displacers, what about displacers or cells for abyssea. Can even use the same cells vw uses, it will just have a different effect.

Example, you trade a rubricant cell with avian mix, to pop a bird nm that has been weakened for yellow proc. If you trade all three vw cell types, it will have all three abyssea proc'd done.

The idea of sharing vw with abyssea is: 1. the products come from cruor 2. the empyrean seals and weapons can be upgraded, painfully thru VW. 3. cruor comes from vw and abyssean nm fights

And lastly, because my inventory just can't take another three items to be used to proc, so share the ones from VW.

These cells could be sold in abyssea, from cruor prospectors.

Or, they could dramatically increase the rate of seals from quests in abyssea.. allowing new players to get seals and work on fame at the same time

Kinda wish they at least garunteed the seal for each possible jobs will drop off the NM, after killing 12+ Amarok for 4 Cor Body seals, i seriously think the +2 are much easier to get...

Accessory NM's aren't much fun either.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

I've noticed that abyssea is now old relivant content, but old none the less. I see people shouting for +1 and it seems harder and harder to attain these items.

Yesterday I went to help some new players get af3+1 materials. I could not get help so we duo'd the nm. Because the player is new, they didnt have additional jobs avialable. Point being farming is slow without the proper jobs and now it's even slower without people doing the content.

Someting needs to be adjusted here for new players. I see vw has displacers, what about displacers or cells for abyssea. Can even use the same cells vw uses, it will just have a different effect.


And lastly, because my inventory just can't take another three items to be used to proc, so share the ones from VW.

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If by proper, you are meaning proc jobs, then really stop right there. You don't need to proc to get seal drops, granted it helps but you'll get the drops eventually. Part of the game is job leveling.

I understand your frustration, and it can be slow going especially when you feel you aren't killing mobs fast enough, but the problem is the players themselves, not abyssea per se.

Well since you dont have to spend a year grinding a job from lvl 1-75 and instead can do it in about 8ish hrs, whats the big deal about spending a couple extra hrs getting decent gear?

But I do agree with Mayoyama, quests should yield more seals. Getting 1 seal that you dont even need for every 20 times you run a quest is kindda rediculous esp when you consider the time restrictions of aby.

They should also introduce quests that yield +2 items and empy upgrade items. Since most empys are solo'd/duo boxed now days it would be a good thing to do and speaking from experience, farming seals is nothing compared to solo farming 34 glavoid popsets + killing 34 glavoids. I would happily run a mindless quest 100 times (50% chance of getting empy item) rather than mindlessly farming that nm again.

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Originally Posted by Elphy

Well since you dont have to spend a year grinding a job from lvl 1-75 and instead can do it in about 8ish hrs, whats the big deal about spending a couple extra hrs getting decent gear?

But I do agree with Mayoyama, quests should yield more seals. Getting 1 seal that you dont even need for every 20 times you run a quest is kindda rediculous esp when you consider the time restrictions of aby.

They should also introduce quests that yield +2 items and empy upgrade items. Since most empys are solo'd/duo boxed now days it would be a good thing to do and speaking from experience, farming seals is nothing compared to solo farming 34 glavoid popsets + killing 34 glavoids. I would happily run a mindless quest 100 times (50% chance of getting empy item) rather than mindlessly farming that nm again.

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Adding +2 items to quests maybe, but emp items, dont think so. With the proposed adjustments to woe weps, SE are clealy realising that people need an easier way to access the ws without doing insane amounts of farming (I'm looking at you chloris...)

And knowing SE.. even IF (and big if) they did make quests for emp items.. theyd make the rate that low you may as well just have spent the time farming the nm in the 1st place (or gone and made a woe wep)

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

If by proper, you are meaning proc jobs, then really stop right there. You don't need to proc to get seal drops, granted it helps but you'll get the drops eventually. Part of the game is job leveling.

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If S-E wanted players to have that many jobs leveled that high, they'd allow players to max out all merit weapon skills.

Do not confuse a mechanic aimed at forcing players to make friends with one aimed at forcing players to level more/specific jobs.

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the problem is the players themselves, not abyssea per se.

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Even if that were true in this instance, that is never a valid argument in any instance. S-E makes the entire game, part of which is making the series of carrots and sticks to encourage and discourage certain player behavior, respectively. The playerbase is a thermodynamic fluid that will always follow the path of least resistance, and if they're "doing something wrong" then it's because S-E left a short-circuit in the system and allowed them to do "something wrong."

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

If S-E wanted players to have that many jobs leveled that high, they'd allow players to max out all merit weapon skills.

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I'm not talking about having every job at 99 (Though some people do). I only have 3 jobs at cap myself. My point is that unlocking / leveling other jobs is part of the game as well. I have never understood the obsession some people have with trying to burn through the game to get to endgame. Then they get burnt out and quit or get frustrated because they can't get what they want.

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Originally Posted by Mayoyama

Adding +2 items to quests maybe, but emp items, dont think so. With the proposed adjustments to woe weps, SE are clealy realising that people need an easier way to access the ws without doing insane amounts of farming (I'm looking at you chloris...)

And knowing SE.. even IF (and big if) they did make quests for emp items.. theyd make the rate that low you may as well just have spent the time farming the nm in the 1st place (or gone and made a woe wep)

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Well somethings gotta be done that makes these items more accessable, since you cannot get a group to do much of anything anymore, much less help farm 175 drops for your weapon. Hard to even get mercenaries, Ive hired 2 and both flaked on me. Hence the tedious soloing. Even if the drop rate was 10% from a quest that would be a much appreciated option to getting the items

Seals can be soloed by a number of jobs, Emps can be soloed by a number of jobs or done with a linkshell which is not hard to get, +2s can be gotten the same way as Emps, because you can tag along with Emp groups. Thats not to say I do not want some form of improvement to Abyssea, I do, however in all reality its not hard as it is anyways.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Seals can be soloed by a number of jobs

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And that number isn't 20.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Seals/Emps/+2s can be soloed by a number of jobs

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Too bad if you dont have any of those jobs... and if you have the gear/jobs to be able to solo emps, chances are you already have at least +1 AF3 anyway....

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Originally Posted by Mayoyama

Too bad if you dont have any of those jobs... and if you have the gear/jobs to be able to solo emps, chances are you already have at least +1 AF3 anyway....

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Please note that I may have read this the wrong way before reading my reply.

If you do not have +1 gear you are not worthy of an Emp, nor a Relic. I have seen more than enough jobs as of late where people have Relics or Emps and are wearing +1, Perle, 75 gear, or have uncapped skills. I believe an Emp or Relic should be earned, not given away. Before you take that the wrong way, let me say I am happy with the weapons as they are, or becoming a bit more workable. However, I do not think you should be able to get a Masamune for your SAM when your running around in Perle, nor +1, some amount of work and effort should be put into the job itself before I think you should wield one of those weapons. My RDM as an example was very well geared before I ever thought to start my Excalibur, let alone finish it, the same can be said for my Almace. It is because I felt I was not deserving of those weapons until I had the gear to match up to their level.

Saying you should be able to solo Emps with a non-AF3+1 job to me is sad, and stupid. If you want to get them, there are some easily accessible things you can do for gear which will speed you on your way as well. For NIN, seals are easy all except body, body is easily replaced with AF1 body which if you can not solo by level 99, go back to the deserving part of this post. Dyna wins are not to bad to get to Xarca, except for Beau, that win is something you can shout for quite easily and should not have to hard of a time getting help with, if nothing else, find a few BST friends and you will be fine. With Emp+1/2 head, AF body, Relic+2 hands, Relic+2 legs, and Emp+1/2 feet, as well as /DNC, and a few easy to obtain items like Brutal, Suppa, Rajas, and then a few harder pieces such as Twilight Belt and Atheling.

All in all you have yourself a good NIN build right there. Standard TP set, can put a few EVA pieces in if need be, but that alone can solo quite a few Abyssea NMs, most seal NMs and some +2/Emp NMs. Some of course will still be out of reach, but not many, and in most cases for Seals and +2s there are alternatives.

As I said in my previous post, I am not against making Abyssea more accessible, yet you both reacted as if I were. I am fine with Abyssea how it is, and at the same time would not mind a change as I find it getting more boring as time passes. My entire point was that it is possible, and if they do not change it, or until they do, it is good to expand your options so that you are able to do it as well.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

And that number isn't 20.

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Which brings me to this post, there are 20 jobs in the game for a reason, you were never meant to play only a single job. Yes, it is possible, I know there is a DRK on my server which has only DRK leveled past subjob levels, while everything else is level 49. Is its possible? Yes, very, however it is not smart nor how I believe the game was intended. If you do so, its your choice, but to complain about the consequences of that choice is foolish when you are the one who made it, and can easily change it, its not as though the ability to play other jobs was lost when you made that choice in your mind.

There are options to get around these problems, simply choose to take them. I believe a system to get procs without actually having the jobs would be nice, it would help a lot of people with Abyssea stuff who do not want to bring others with them for it. I myself want to get an Ukon for WAR, however I solo Abyssea content on my RDM, which has little red procs, making it almost a complete waste of time to try doing it. If I could trade something to the NM or ??? that would auto-proc it, I would be very happy, however I honestly do not expect them to do anything with it because they think of Abyssea as finished content.

I wish not to anger, simply to help, and share my point of view, if you want to take what I am saying as though I do not want this to happen then so be it however you are wrong and read my words differently than I intend them.



I would like to ask a question however of the OP, you want to trade cells to the ??? to force a proc, however there are many time spawn NMs, how would those be dealt with seeing as you can not trade items to mobs?

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

I'm not talking about having every job at 99 (Though some people do). I only have 3 jobs at cap myself. My point is that unlocking / leveling other jobs is part of the game as well. I have never understood the obsession some people have with trying to burn through the game to get to endgame. Then they get burnt out and quit or get frustrated because they can't get what they want.

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They "burn through it" because anything pre-abyssea is a barren wasteland and not worth your time. Level 99 has all the content.

Abyssea isn't hard either. Though I will admit it becomes a chore when you don't have a proc buddy. The lack of Red Procs is the reason why I haven't got Almace yet.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I would like to ask a question however of the OP, you want to trade cells to the ??? to force a proc, however there are many time spawn NMs, how would those be dealt with seeing as you can not trade items to mobs?

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There are fights where you can use items on a monster, such as anima in the promy fights.

However, the problem with removing the need to proc and making things easier to obtain is that it will make more people want to get them. This means that timed spawned NMs will be even more camped than they are now, and people might be camping ??? repops for forced pop NMs.

So, while it would be great to remove the need to go to Abyssea on a few selected proc jobs, I think it would also be important to make all timed pop NMs into force spawned. And maybe add extra sets of ???s for popular NMs.

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Originally Posted by Ladycandygem

There are fights where you can use items on a monster, such as anima in the promy fights.

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I agree with the rest of your post, however this is something a bit different with these items. Anima and the like are usable items, the suggestion is that Rubi be used for the effect, and other VW like cells. They would either need to change the type of item so that it is a use item, or they would need to make a way to trade the item to the NM. I doubt SE could make the item work both ways as I know of no other item that does, but if it exists then please correct me. That is the only real problem I saw with the whole idea though, the idea of making cruor and cells useful for it is wonderful, and forcing procs using them would be cool, if nothing else a new form of cell just for Abyssea which would be an usable item like Anima would be great as well, because it would work the same way, and upon using it, it could just proc the NM. They would need a high cost though otherwise you could proc lock any NM of your choice very easily, making it just as easy as a brew really, so I am unsure exactly how that would be balanced.

Even if you can solo +1/+2 seals you still want to have at least a BLM in your party because of procs. Procs are probably the most boring thing with Abyssea.

Remove the "Ex" tag from seals. Problem solved.
EDIT: Also, make the "???" reappear for force-pop nms one minute after the nm spawns, not after it dies. This will fix the annoying issue of waiting for slow parties.

Are we really having a conversation about making abyssea easier? Really?

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Originally Posted by Earwig

Remove the "Ex" tag from seals. Problem solved.
EDIT: Also, make the "???" reappear for force-pop nms one minute after the nm spawns, not after it dies. This will fix the annoying issue of waiting for slow parties.

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SE made the statement that the reason things like seals, +2 items and empy items are "ex" is to prevent rmt from farming these items for sale which would likely prevent players from being able to reliably farm themselves. Think of how bad it would be if we had to compete with RMT over these drops...

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Originally Posted by Slaxx

Are we really having a conversation about making abyssea easier? Really?

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Easier, no, more accessible to your average new player who can not get anyone to help because everyone has already finished their seals for the most part, yes.

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Originally Posted by Slaxx

Are we really having a conversation about making abyssea easier? Really?

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Abyssea is easy yes, but now that the new zone smell has worn off farming aby for drops for those of us who still need (esp empy drops) is nothing but an uber tedious time sync. Farming some of these nm solo is not fun and since the playerbase DEMANDS you have an e/r/m to get into any other form of endgame those of us stuck soloing some of these nm are really frustrated. First you have to solo farm your seals, then your +2, then your empy drops. Its a long and tedious time sync that makes the game horrid and has caused alot of ppl I know to unsubscribe and move on to other games.

If the spirit of cooperation was still there for these things it would not be such an issue, but like I said previously, you cannot even pay ppl to farm these drops for you anymore, much less get them to do it out of kindness or cooperation. Hell even +2 items isnt a draw since many of these nm dont reliably drop any +2 items.

If you cannot do any endgame before spending weeks upon weeks soloing in aby (provided you have stones) the game becomes dull and boring and you end up spending your night in Skyrim or Tyria instead.

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Originally Posted by Slaxx

Are we really having a conversation about making abyssea easier? Really?

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Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but making "Abyssea" easier overall? No. The difficulty/hassle/whatever necessary to get zone clears, empyrean weapons, and I'd even say +2 armor seems appropriate. What is inappropriate is the difficulty/hassle/whatever of getting seals for +1 armor. The stats on the stuff is the bare minimum needed for acceptability nowadays, effectively requiring newer players to put their Vana'diel lives on hold while they do this grind work, no matter how they got to 80+.

And just to say this again, because it needs to be: Leveling different jobs past 49 should never be a requirement for JSE. If the specific job is not adequate/useful/desirable in obtaining job-specific equipment, something is very broken.

At this point in the game, seals are more annoying than they should be. Abyssea may be viewed as easy-mode (hey, just shout and find 3 other people with exactly the right proc jobs and who need the other 3 seals you don't want), but at this point most people who have been around for a year or more have all the seals they want. I don't see any harm in making it a little easier by increasing quest rewards and/or NM drop rates.

What SE could do is move all the seals from NMs onto normal mobs in Abyssea & increase the rate of all +2 items by allowing all NM pops to drop them. Certain groups of seals can drop from certain types of mobs like DRG +1 seals (all kinds) drop from puks & dragons.

When everyone moves over to Audlin, Abyssea may become the new Aht Urhgan (does anyone remember how busy Aht Urhgan used to be?) or more likely the new Campaign with only pockets of a few people running around & it will become increasingly difficult to do anything in Abyssea (certainly no worm parties).

Oh no, Abyssea NM are pretty easy, but when you just need 1 more Navarch seal, and Amarok went on dropping 4 Creed seals or 2 Creed 1 Goetia 1 Charis, or whatever combination 8 times in a row.... just felt like i wasted my and my friend's time proccing yellow.... Especially compared to Bennu who coughed up 11 coins of ardors after 4 kills...

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

If by proper, you are meaning proc jobs, then really stop right there. You don't need to proc to get seal drops, granted it helps but you'll get the drops eventually. Part of the game is job leveling.

I understand your frustration, and it can be slow going especially when you feel you aren't killing mobs fast enough, but the problem is the players themselves, not abyssea per se.

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I have to disagree here, i'm sorry. SE locked in only a few jobs that can proc, thereby eliminating other jobs from easy rewards. At the time, xp was plentiful because everyone was leveling, so people didnt mind leveling jobs for proc alone.

Now, people gerenally are not leveling, and abyssea is old.

Therefore, xp is harder and seals are harder. Please don't defend a broke system like abyssea were only a few jobs matter...

I've been working on seals since Abyssea came out, still haven't finished collecting everything I need. I go out three to five times a week and hunt various NMs with my singular constant companion, sometimes we get lucky and score a bunch, other times we'll come back with 1 or 2 seals that either of us actually needed. Kill speed and procs aren't an issue, the real issue is needing one more seal and the NM what drops it refuses to drop just one, often despite it being the NM with the highest drop potential for that seal.

We went to finish my Savant hands about a week ago, needed one seal, ended up killing Koghatu with procs 8 times before he dropped the one seal I needed. In that time I also managed to get 12 RDM and 9 BLM hands seals, and both were at 0 before we fought this guy. It pretty much ruined my entire evening, because after that we killed Bukhis a few times and he was bleeding stones and cards all over the place, 5 people managed to complete +2 pieces from 0/6 items after the evening was finished. The amount of time and effort that goes into seals is absolutely ridiculous when you compare it to the ease of farming +2 gear. SE needs to cut out the bottlenecking strategy and expand the availability of seals already, at this point it's just a time sink and a major source of aggravation for many players.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

I've been working on seals since Abyssea came out, still haven't finished collecting everything I need. I go out three to five times a week and hunt various NMs with my singular constant companion, sometimes we get lucky and score a bunch, other times we'll come back with 1 or 2 seals that either of us actually needed. Kill speed and procs aren't an issue, the real issue is needing one more seal and the NM what drops it refuses to drop just one, often despite it being the NM with the highest drop potential for that seal.

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What would help is some kind of exchange system, even if it was at a vastly inferior rate.

If you could exchange similar seals at a 5:1 ratio or so, problem fixed. It's about time for Abyssea to get simpler in that regard anyway- Adoulin is just around the corner.

personally I'm tired of having to get key items. not all of us have a big linkshell or group of friends to do these things, and getting help is like pulling teeth sometimes. mainly the problem is I don't have the pop set, which I don't feel like farming amber lights like crazy just to get.

also, I refuse to level BST. one job should not be the sollution to all problems.

Its a two sided coin really. SE is the one who made empy's easy to attain and its the playerbase who has made it so you cannot do anything without e/r/m so no fingers can be pointed soley at the SE dev team.

BUT they need to adjust to the current times. Those of us stuck with nothing to do but grind aby for weeks and weeks on end without the chance at anything else wont have the highest retention rate, esp with ARR and ESO on the horizon. Sure players with 4 empys and 2 relics with swarm adoulin but there will be alot of us left behind, to keep solo grinding aby until we are up to par. But even empy+2 gear is outdated in some cases now so we still wont be totally up to par and still have difficulty getting into endgame.

Im a legacy member so have a ticket to ARR beta already and Im on the list for ESO, frankly even tho I have been with ffxi since 06 with only a brief hiatus post aby (hence the fall behind) SE likely wont be getting the fees for my 2 ffxi accounts much longer if things dont change and I can do SOMETHING other than vw and solo grinding aby/dyna. I'm already at the point of only logging in to do my assaults twice a week.

ARR and ESO wont kill the game but it will cause a dip in the current subscription rates Im sure at this rate. I'm not saying give me something free and easy. But since the playerbase demands an empy, either SE or the playerbase needs to change it so we have other options than grinding it out for weeks/months before we can start anything else. And you know the playerbase wont budge or suddenly develope a knack for cooperation.

Wasnt the whole point of making lvling easy to get us into endgame faster? I can get to 99 in a day, skill to 99 in another and spend the next 2+ months farming aby all by myself? Meh.

As far as +1 pieces go I think you're going to be stuck doing the quests if you can't get assistance as a newer player. Also, yes +1/+2 mobs are soloable by a few well geared jobs. The +2 mobs might even drop what you want without procs. The +1 mobs are a massive timesink to solo though. I got 1 seal from 6 amarillos. It was not the seal I wanted, and I needed more than 1 seal. I think questing would have been faster had I not begged some friends to come proc for me. I imagine those kinds of situations would be disheartening for a new player. Maybe make fellowship NPCs able to come in to abyssea and proc stuff for you?

Alot of people keep talking about SoA and how it might affect abyssea, at this point no one is really sure if there will be anything in SoA to "replace" abyssea.

Unless ive missed something i dont think they will make abyssea or voidwatch at this point obsolete because they have updated salvage, limbus, nyzul isle, and all of that to 99 cap so we would have a plethora of content to do that will still be current in some sense.

If its anything like previous xpacks like CoP, Wotg, and aht urghan we wont even see the endgame of that xpack until they have finished putting in the story through patches.

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Originally Posted by Fishyface

Alot of people keep talking about SoA and how it might affect abyssea, at this point no one is really sure if there will be anything in SoA to "replace" abyssea.

Unless ive missed something i dont think they will make abyssea or voidwatch at this point obsolete because they have updated salvage, limbus, nyzul isle, and all of that to 99 cap so we would have a plethora of content to do that will still be current in some sense.

If its anything like previous xpacks like CoP, Wotg, and aht urghan we wont even see the endgame of that xpack until they have finished putting in the story through patches.

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What's likely is we'll see "sidegrade" gear here, with a few marginal upgrades- which was a lot like what we saw when ToAU came into the picture. They -could- also go the WoW route at this point and simply make Abyssea gear obselete other than making entry-level Adoulin easier, giving us crafted/lowman drops that would allow people to gear up instead.