We're really treasure hunters, not thieves!

I know I could attest for this in my 2+ years pulling for Dynamis!


So how do you guys feel about all the new Treasure Hunter goodness we've seen, especially the big changes to the system, and the fact that we have yet another TH gear, and Job trait!

I love the things they have done for Treasure Hunter, and I hunger for MORE!

I would like if they made Thief able to steal more things, not useless things either.

Pretty much what Draylo said. The Steal trait in itself is rather useless, would be nice to be able to steal/despoil some useful stuff, or at a better rate for that matter. Stealing 3~4 coins during a dynamis run with the highest Steal setup doesn't even cover my food/rr cost. As for abyssea, that could extend to pop items, geodes or crests for example.

I've only been using Steal for a quick dispel, situationally. I don't even remember I can use it in Dynamis runs because of the low success rate and recast. :(
I do love the Treasure Hunter update, though! Adding up numbers is addicting, and lately I've been reluctant to go on any other job to events. :D

I always have liked how old school FFXI did Steal with Brigandish Blade in sky. It made the job ability a requirement. ... Made you feel kind of important, because back in that day most Thief's had no more than TH2. :P Just remembering the good old days. :)

I agree steal needs to be more beneficial when its used on higher level enemies as well as in dynamis even it would be great to be steal a coin more often then not. I don't know if SqEnix plans on putting out more steal gear that would have to overshadow what they have now to do this or even give a job trait that increases chance of stealing an item.
On the Treasure Hunter topic Im not sure what to think I must be the unluckiest THF there is but having a TH9 on an NM and only dropping 1 seal without a proc and nothing else or getting up to a TH8 outside abyssea on a HNM and not getting a drop is still crap. I feel they nerfed TH just to say they could give you higher TH but a TH 4 turns out to be a TH2 now.. just a thought .. like I said Im probably just an unlucky THF

im happy with the new th system but would be happier if u could SA+marksmanship WS [with /rng of course] and RA for more th procs.

i seriously suppoer being able to steal good things. i feel there should be certian valuable gear/items only obtainable by stealing to give the game more of an old school FF feel. one of the first things i always make in a final fantasy game where multiple jobs are useable, or abilities are selectable, is make a thf to obtain rare and awesome items.

a thought: if making gear stealable (not like the drops the monster would normaly have, but diffrent ones), will imbalance the game, then make a sub quest in the tenshodo where charachters can steal special rare/ex items from notorious monsters all over the world (avalible only via steal), inside of sky sea dynamis abyssea toau wotg ect ect, that can be stolen and traded into the "black market fence" towards credit for new and awesome gear (not this augmenting crap!)

would be nice if thf could steal items for next synergy updates.

It would be awesome if there were decent items to steal.

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Originally Posted by GERM

On the Treasure Hunter topic Im not sure what to think I must be the unluckiest THF there is but having a TH9 on an NM and only dropping 1 seal without a proc and nothing else or getting up to a TH8 outside abyssea on a HNM and not getting a drop is still crap. I feel they nerfed TH just to say they could give you higher TH but a TH 4 turns out to be a TH2 now.. just a thought .. like I said Im probably just an unlucky THF

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I think it's because there is no proc, for seals.
To me, it seems like Abyssea drop up 0-2 seals without yellow, Treasure Hunter helps try to get both seals.
Proccing yellow !! seems to unlock the chance for 3 more seals (up to 5), with TH increasing the chance of each extra seal dropping. Seals are not guaranteed, but drops seem to increase greatly, especially after hitting TH10+ (frequently get full drops with yellow !!, even without blue !!).
Proccing yellow with no TH can wield anywhere from 0-5 seals, depending on luck. We've had better luck having a THF and no yellow (almost always at least 1 seal) than yellow and no THF (had no seals drop several times), but that might just be bad luck on our part.
It feels like the Heroes of Abyssea zones are a little less generous with seals even with yellow and TH in my experience, though. It usually feels more like getting 2-3 seals regularly vs. 4-5 in Scars areas.

HNM... I dunno, low drop rate means still low drop rate? @,@

More TH was the last thing I wanted for THF. I want more DD and defensive abilities. To me the best thing we've gotten since 75 was the DW3 trait from /nin. Closely followed by the crit dmg+ job trait.

I agree that Steal could be used to steal more unique things. It would give that Final Fantasy feeling where you could steal weapons and rare items from bosses and certain enemies in the console games.

TH = Lucky charm job. It's cool to get things faster or have a chance at least to help you with that precious drop. But THF can be a good DD and could use more of Crowd Control abilities. Id like more Dual Wield as well and other means to control the hate or change the battle strategy of the party.

Yeah, I'd like some more offensive abilities as well.

As a career thief I too would very much like to see an improvement to how steal is used in game. Its a real shame that the one ability that truly makes us thieves is so extremely poor and limited. Ideally, I'd like to see steal work akin to provoke in having a 30 second timer instead of a 5 minute timer. At least then the horrible success rate wouldn't be as demoralizing.

At the very least steal's timer should be dropped to 1 minute to enable greater use. If there are balancing issues between despoil and steal leave despoil's timer at 5 minutes since it technically does more than just steal.

Of course, I would greatly welcome a reduction in mug's recast timer as well. Mugging 3-30 gil every 15 minutes is hardly fun or useful in any real way. Outside of mugging high gil dropping notorious monsters the ability is all but useless.

After thinking about it, I have two beefs with THF (one of them with TH to keep things somewhat on topic).

1st: [insert "Fffffuuuuuuuuuu" picture here] - Time and time again, I use SA and then some ****head samurai or something turns the mob and my weaponskill which normally does 2000 dmg does 156 dmg. Then when I say fine, I'll TA! I'll line up behind tank (or a whm for the lulz) and hit TA and then the tank moves for no apparent reason and same thing happens.

Thank you SE, I've been diagnosed with Tourette's. ;;

2nd: Thief's Knife - Seriously need to update / augment / replace this weapon so I don't feel so gimp while using it. Oh, sorry, I forgot, Thieves aren't DD! Well then, in that case, please still do the same but make the base dmg: 1 and the delay: 999 on Thief's knife, since we're TH blankidy-blanks anyways.

And that America is what grinds my gears! Back to you Tom.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

More TH was the last thing I wanted for THF. I want more DD and defensive abilities. To me the best thing we've gotten since 75 was the DW3 trait from /nin. Closely followed by the crit dmg+ job trait.

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I know a lot of people will hate me for saying this, but I don't think anything is wrong with THF's current offensive capabilities. Yes, it doesn't compare to heavy hitting DDs, but I think that's how it's supposed to be. If every job should be considered a heavy DD, why have different jobs in the first place? Especially inside Abyssea, THFs can already output a large amount of damage. I think the job's traits and abilities are quite well tailored to its description, only as I said, mugging and stealing could take some tweaking.

Higher offense, in my opinion, seems inappropriate, as does higher defense. And THF's "defensive capabilities" are already higher than most other jobs' anyway, considering their superior evasion.

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Originally Posted by Treasurehider

2nd: Thief's Knife - Seriously need to update / augment / replace this weapon so I don't feel so gimp while using it. Oh, sorry, I forgot, Thieves aren't DD! Well then, in that case, please still do the same but make the base dmg: 1 and the delay: 999 on Thief's knife, since we're TH blankidy-blanks anyways.

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Well, while it is a drag, it doesn't really hurt the damage. After TH is on, you can just exchange it for another weapon. For events like dynamis, or trigger farming on lower mobs, I don't bother with switching it out, since it's not actually that bad of a knife. At least you can still deal "ok" damage with it, so it's maybe not quite as bad. Trading off a bit of damage for drop luck, not that bad of a deal.

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Originally Posted by Treasurehider

2nd: Thief's Knife - Seriously need to update / augment / replace this weapon so I don't feel so gimp while using it. Oh, sorry, I forgot, Thieves aren't DD! Well then, in that case, please still do the same but make the base dmg: 1 and the delay: 999 on Thief's knife, since we're TH blankidy-blanks anyways.

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There are times I've found to have better luck main handing my Thief's Knife with TH, so I do it on occasion for S&G's. It is for this reason, I've named my knife Jill. She gets jealous when off-handed.

A few suggestions. I'm sure I'll think of more later on.

1. Remove shared timers on Collaborator/Accomplice.

The fact that Accomplice and Collaborator share a timer makes Accomplice a wasted ability. As a primary tank in our Abyssea group, I am constantly using Collaborator every minute that it is up as a hate tool. If one were to sit down and do the math on these two abilities, they'd notice that repeated use of Collaborator over a 5 minute period heavily outweighs the single use of Accomplice. Either remove the shared timers or reduce the cooldown time of Accomplice from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.

2. Heavy Tweaking of Steal/Despoil

As one who did not merit Aura Steal (full merits in AC/Feint), it serves me no purpose to use the Steal ability anymore, especially since AF3 has boosts to Despoil. Since NMs have nothing to take, Despoil seems like a wasted ability as well.

3. Lower the recast timer on Mug to 5 minutes and make it a damage dealing ability.

In previous games, Mug was used as a Steal ability while also combined with an Attack. With Abyssea as the predominant activity now, Mug has no use anymore.

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Originally Posted by Pesh

A few suggestions. I'm sure I'll think of more later on.

1. Remove shared timers on Collaborator/Accomplice.

The fact that Accomplice and Collaborator share a timer makes Accomplice a wasted ability. As a primary tank in our Abyssea group, I am constantly using Collaborator every minute that it is up as a hate tool. If one were to sit down and do the math on these two abilities, they'd notice that repeated use of Collaborator over a 5 minute period heavily outweighs the single use of Accomplice. Either remove the shared timers or reduce the cooldown time of Accomplice from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.

2. Heavy Tweaking of Steal/Despoil

As one who did not merit Aura Steal (full merits in AC/Feint), it serves me no purpose to use the Steal ability anymore, especially since AF3 has boosts to Despoil. Since NMs have nothing to take, Despoil seems like a wasted ability as well.

3. Lower the recast timer on Mug to 5 minutes and make it a damage dealing ability.

In previous games, Mug was used as a Steal ability while also combined with an Attack. With Abyssea as the predominant activity now, Mug has no use anymore.

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Omg pesh!! :p I 100% agree with these things.. acc/colab timer drives me nuts! and Mug needs to me more freaking useful.. esp now that hardly any mobs drop gil its like wtf is the point...

My only thing with thf is we need a little more power for solo endeavors.. outside aby anyway id like my ws dmg to be a bit more consistent in the 1.5k+ range without sneak and trick.. but a girl can dream lol

I also think TH has either been nerfed with the update, or the large numbers prove that it is next to useless. More of a feel good number than anything else. Should just rename it "Placebo Hunter".

Would be nice to see an upgrade for Mug. I agree that it should do damage like it does in every other FF. And 15 minute timer? So if I played 24/7 and was able to Mug every 15m on the spot, grabbing a way above average 100 gil every time, it would take over 100 days of this to generate 1 million gil. And let's be honest, that isn't a lot of gil.

Steal and Despoil being on the same timer is retarded, especially with them claiming items from different pools. What are they trying to balance against exactly. If anything it just prevents us from experimenting with despoil on those few mobs we really want to steal against. (Dynamis, Salvage cells, etc)

Maybe I just feel disenfranchised by DNC and my opinion should be ignored...

I agree with everyone's suggestions. My biggest beef was with the "Mug" ability. It always should have dealt damage.

When I say offensive and defensive abilities I'm not looking for anything amazing. I would love a JA similar to SA that works from the front but only when you have hate. I dislike that when I tank and intend on keeping hate both SA and TA are off the table. Collabo will allow you to TA a co-tank or random unsuspecting DD but the downside is they end up with way less hate than before you TAed them and you also don't have it for hate resets and "oh crap my WAR friend just did a 7k ukko's fury" moments. Defensively something similar to MNKs perfect counter would be nice or a level tactical parry or even a native counter trait. Just something more useful and less passive than TH tweaks.

i think stealing good items is a great idea and fits in with SEs overall game ethics
look at all the console FFs most of the best items in the game are obtained thru stealing
tbh u should be able to steal anything the mob can drop and/or is useing like steal there weapon

also yeah mug should do damage or have it add damage to your next attack while stealing gil

Yeah having a JOB title of Thief and not being able to steal anything of value makes you one big failure. Or how about implementing something like "being able to steal from a mob without it noticing" since if I have to beat something to death it's not consider stealing anymore.

ok, revise steal and despoil this way; if the mob is distracted (i.e. someone else has hate) your chance of success goes up, proportional to the difference between their hateload and yours.

As to TH, I have yet to get ANY drops on any mobe when my TH goes up due to repeated blows outside Abyssea, so this is one change I think hasn't worked. Maybe it requires you to have the AF3 +2 set to actually work, I don't know.

As for people complaining about TH, I don't think it's well founded. I've seen an increase in drop rates personally. When you trigger grellow on a mob you expect to see 3~4 seals, and most times you do. However, that one time you only get 1 seal, that will carve itself into your memory. It's easier to remember the failures than the successes, I think that's where this comes from. I especially notice it with gear/trigger drops really. Triggering blue on a NM often doesn't give a low drop rate item regardless, neither does TH. But both together increase the chances a lot, from my own experience. It's really hard to make assertions about TH without large testing, but if people wanna compare, go to SSG and farm, check out the difference between TH4 a few months ago and TH6~7 now, it's quite noticeable.

They should make a magian trial for a TH +1 dagger or make Thief's Knife upgradable through magian trials.

TH has not been reduced in any capacity from my experience and when combined with !! procs drop rates are very respectable.

I am a well geared THF and for the most part I can keep up fairly well with other straight DD's yes they will usually end up beating me in a parse if they are also geared well. But I would take a well geared THF over a full perle DD job any day of the week. I really don't think we need more offensive abilities.

That being said lowering recast and adding a small bit of damage to it wouldn't be a horrible idea.

And I think the other thing mentioned was Accomplice vs Collaborator, personally I only use collaborator and agree Accomplice is pretty much useless. So a lowered recast on that would be amazing.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

I would like if they made Thief able to steal more things, not useless things either.

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In Final Fantasy Tactics, Thief could steal ANYTHING!

I'd like to see Despoil changed to where Thieves can take the Accuracy, Attack, Defense etc. of the mobs and give those stats to themselves. In fact, the word "despoil" essentially means to steal.

As it stands now, Thieves steal the defense of the mobs all right, but goodness! what do they do with them afterwards, throw them away? It would be smarter to just keep them for themselves :P

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Originally Posted by Crazze

They should make a magian trial for a TH +1 dagger or make Thief's Knife upgradable through magian trials.

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Possible that we will see this, since SE have said that they will be making more gear upgradable.^^ Fingers crossed everyone.

I'd settle for another 10~ damage on it, but an extra +1 on TH would be <3

imo the treasure hunter update didnt really do anything. Yeah we know see a number go up and up with the same results before this change. Get TH9 + on a mob and still see same crap drops or lack of. I don't think even SE has a clear explanation on how TH really works. How bout giving us a plain out description on how TH actually works SE

Alot of good feedback here I see and that's refreshing!! I'm also lovin' the new th upgrade!! Steal and despoil however are a sore spot with me as well. Rates are not great and the benfit is minimal at best. Let's not even metion all the shared timers..... A though I had recently is to revamp steal/despoil and make the item stolen and succes rate link to your current tier of th. Th3~5 net one item, 7~9 a totaly different one. I believe it would add a greater strategy to playing the job and give us a reason to steal/despoil other than mainly to debuff or dispel (both of which are decent additions)..//

Recently got my TH gloves and i must admit they kinda anoyme. I have amuch beter chance of activating my TH5 with SA on a mob using my +1 Raiders gloves. Yet i dont like not starting at TH6 with the gloves. And often i will go through an entire mob without activating TH+ at all. Notsaying some mesure of TH isnt alredy activated but its still anoying. Also it would be nice if hide was more useful as its easier to SA hide while you have hate. But that being said any sound agro mob in the vacinity screws that up ><;

my biggest beef with TH is that they added the new treasure hunter counters / traits / gear, and then added the !!'s that make it mostly useless. 99% of stuff in abbysea can be done with 3-4 people. most time people don't want thief because they are more concerned with getting the !! than with applying some magical trait that probably doesn't do anything.

What would be sweet is if they ramped up thief's damage even more based on treasure hunter trait and made certain drops only possible through the use of it so that thief is a necessity.

Shortening the ability timer on steal would be huge too. i mean honestly..... aren't thieves supposed to reap huge rewards? would it really hurt the game balance if we had some gil etc.?

TH still has a notable effect on stuff dropping. I've noticed a large decrease in average number of seal drops/+2 item drops/blue item drops over time from not having THF present - I consider it almost a necessity on any serious farming run.

I have mixed feelings about the new TH system -which I think is what this thread was originally about lol- while I think it's a bit more straight forward & engaging now & it allows THFs to be more of a front line job again at events instead of just poking the mob then sitting down by the mages & drinking tea while the rest of the alliance fights on I think without giving THF subtle blow we're still capped at TH7 for most of the mobs that actually matter. Most groups wont want a THF up there swinging constantly feeding NMs TP, draining mages MP & getting killed by AoEs which would reset any bonus anyway.

I agree with most of what's been said here regarding adjustments to a lot of THF abilities. Unlinking accomplice & conspirator would be great especially for THF tanking though I'd say SE would more likely nerf THF tanking than aid it in any way since they don't like people using their jobs in ways that don't fit into SE neat little box. Since most DDs can now regularly pop 3k+ WS these abilities are kind of inadequate now though. If SE wanted THF to be more useful in augmenting party enmity like it is designed to do decreasing/ unlinking the timers & possibly changing TA to not only transfer the enmity of the next attack but also part of the THFs cumulative enmity may be effective.

I actually merited aura steal on my THF as assassins charge seemed to me very underwhelming and inconsistent & I mostly used THF for soloing so being able to steal spikes or regen off a mob for example was often a lifesaver, yet still I didn't often use steal & now I use it even less. The last time I used mug was years ago in fact if I could remove the ability I would just to streamline my list a little bit. A lower recast on steal or enhanced success rate as well as adding some items worth stealing, even temporary items as well as a lower recast on mug plus some damage would be great.

I think changing despoil so you are actually enfeebling the mob by stealing the effects from it would suit it's name & THFs character better also extending the effect of aura steal to despoil in so far as having merits would increase the chances of gaining a boost or enhancing the boost from the mob would also be good, this could also serve as a way to improve THF defensive capabilities. Alternatively or additional unlinking steal & despoil timers would give you twice the chance of an item while keeping despoil as a purely enfeebling effect & steal -if you have aura steal merits- a purely enhancing one and I'll say it again please give us some items worth stealing!

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Originally Posted by Strife

Most groups wont want a THF up there swinging constantly feeding NMs TP, draining mages MP & getting killed by AoEs which would reset any bonus anyway.

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TH does not reset upon a THF's death. Get your facts straight.

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Originally Posted by Strife

Unlinking accomplice & conspirator would be great especially for THF tanking though I'd say SE would more likely nerf THF tanking than aid it in any way since they don't like people using their jobs in ways that don't fit into SE neat little box. Since most DDs can now regularly pop 3k+ WS these abilities are kind of inadequate now though.

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Inadequate? If you can't pop off your own 3k Evis (and this is low), then you're doing it wrong. You should be WAITING for your Collaborator timer to come up because that ability (coupled with the massive damage we can put out) is what allows us to tank.

Guess I'm not a normal THF because I play to what the situation requires; then again most of the ones I see are Aurore wearing idiots.

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Originally Posted by Strife

I have mixed feelings about the new TH system -which I think is what this thread was originally about lol- while I think it's a bit more straight forward & engaging now & it allows THFs to be more of a front line job again at events instead of just poking the mob then sitting down by the mages & drinking tea while the rest of the alliance fights on I think without giving THF subtle blow we're still capped at TH7 for most of the mobs that actually matter. Most groups wont want a THF up there swinging constantly feeding NMs TP, draining mages MP & getting killed by AoEs which would reset any bonus anyway.

I agree with most of what's been said here regarding adjustments to a lot of THF abilities. Unlinking accomplice & conspirator would be great especially for THF tanking though I'd say SE would more likely nerf THF tanking than aid it in any way since they don't like people using their jobs in ways that don't fit into SE neat little box. Since most DDs can now regularly pop 3k+ WS these abilities are kind of inadequate now though. If SE wanted THF to be more useful in augmenting party enmity like it is designed to do decreasing/ unlinking the timers & possibly changing TA to not only transfer the enmity of the next attack but also part of the THFs cumulative enmity may be effective.

I actually merited aura steal on my THF as assassins charge seemed to me very underwhelming and inconsistent & I mostly used THF for soloing so being able to steal spikes or regen off a mob for example was often a lifesaver, yet still I didn't often use steal & now I use it even less. The last time I used mug was years ago in fact if I could remove the ability I would just to streamline my list a little bit. A lower recast on steal or enhanced success rate as well as adding some items worth stealing, even temporary items as well as a lower recast on mug plus some damage would be great.

I think changing despoil so you are actually enfeebling the mob by stealing the effects from it would suit it's name & THFs character better also extending the effect of aura steal to despoil in so far as having merits would increase the chances of gaining a boost or enhancing the boost from the mob would also be good, this could also serve as a way to improve THF defensive capabilities. Alternatively or additional unlinking steal & despoil timers would give you twice the chance of an item while keeping despoil as a purely enfeebling effect & steal -if you have aura steal merits- a purely enhancing one and I'll say it again please give us some items worth stealing!

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With the changes to AGL, added tier of subtle blow from /nin, and overall DD increases from atma, why would a THF not be utilized on most everything in FFXI? At worst you ride SA and TA on a mob if AOEs are so bad that 2 people in range is a waste. SA and TA proc way more TH+ than melee anyway. That is like what 75% of the TH increases that a thf can pull off anyway?

Or death does not change the effect of TH on the mob either... Not only is this testable by applying a high level th, dying, then not using TH gear and seeing what the next TH proc is, SE has explicitly said TH doesnt wear on THF deaths.

Unlinking steal and despoil timers would be a god send.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

my biggest beef with TH is that they added the new treasure hunter counters / traits / gear, and then added the !!'s that make it mostly useless. 99% of stuff in abbysea can be done with 3-4 people. most time people don't want thief because they are more concerned with getting the !! than with applying some magical trait that probably doesn't do anything.

What would be sweet is if they ramped up thief's damage even more based on treasure hunter trait and made certain drops only possible through the use of it so that thief is a necessity.

Shortening the ability timer on steal would be huge too. i mean honestly..... aren't thieves supposed to reap huge rewards? would it really hurt the game balance if we had some gil etc.?

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I have soloed tons of NMs as well as been in groups sans THF using only BLM procs. Neither produces better drops than the other. Its not like !! means 5 seals will drop nor does a TH10 proc. But both together produce the best results.

Plus some items like magain upgrade items are not effected by any color stagger proc. Not having a thf kills overall drop efficiency. Plus we are one of the best DDs if geared/played properly.