shinryu proc

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10-01-2012, 04:57 AM
Secondplanet

shinryu proc

Hello, just wanted to know if others are having a hard time proc'ing shinryu. I'll get the hint cycle through the 5 attacks and no proc. I'll go through them all 8-10 times all clean and no proc.

Just wanted to know if others are having this problem?
10-01-2012, 05:40 AM
Arcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secondplanet

Hello, just wanted to know if others are having a hard time proc'ing shinryu. I'll get the hint cycle through the 5 attacks and no proc. I'll go through them all 8-10 times all clean and no proc.

Just wanted to know if others are having this problem?

Shinryu's melee attacks are all TP moves, so you need to attack him in between his melee swings. That makes it a bit harder until you get some practice in it, but once you do, it's not too bad to anticipate. Then you just have to pray he doesn't start casting or use proper TP moves right that moment.
10-02-2012, 01:09 AM
hiko

and some tip: if you get hint on a WS(magic) it is not the proc
10-02-2012, 01:52 AM
Arcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiko

and some tip: if you get hint on a WS(magic) it is not the proc

That's not true, you can get a hint if the spell/WS was dirty as well, which means it can still be the right one.
10-02-2012, 05:37 AM
Tile

good way to practice is on the Iron Giants they work the same way, also i'd like to know where people got it in their heads you only get hint if its Clean.
10-02-2012, 02:04 PM
hiko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcon

, you can get a hint if the spell/WS was dirty as well,

that's true

Quote:

which means it can still be the right one.

nope.
calling hint on dirty proc and not redoing it after never failed us.
10-02-2012, 02:28 PM
Tile

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiko

calling hint on dirty proc and not redoing it after never failed us. done this since Scars

Raiden Thrust thinks you've been very lucky
10-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Greggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcon

That's not true, you can get a hint if the spell/WS was dirty as well, which means it can still be the right one.

It doesn't matter. If you've ever gotten the message - even if it was dirty - it's not that ability for the proc. You'll also never see a discern proc(in my and all of my friends' experiences) on the same spell/WS that the proc is.
10-02-2012, 02:54 PM
Demon6324236

My experience contradicts your experience, sorry.
10-02-2012, 04:40 PM
hiko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

My experience contradicts your experience, sorry.

POIDH!
nobody have posted pic on any forum of a spell/ws giving hint then procing (on the same mob, without the mob going passive)
10-02-2012, 05:24 PM
Demon6324236

Well, I do have a few seals to finish up, so who knows, if I see it happen & think of it I may give you the proof you so desire, however I am sure I have seen it before in either case.
10-03-2012, 02:00 AM
Sarick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

My experience contradicts your experience, sorry. I supplement it with reality.

FIXED IT!!!
10-03-2012, 03:33 AM
Tile

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiko

POIDH!
nobody have posted pic on any forum of a spell/ws giving hint then procing (on the same mob, without the mob going passive)

because everything that happens in the game gets posted on the forums.
10-03-2012, 05:41 AM
hiko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tile

because everything that happens in the game gets posted on the forums.

because people had the same discussion on several forums when proc was new and nobody have been able to prove it wrong
10-03-2012, 06:50 AM
Tile

Just because you can't prove that something is wrong doesn't mean it's right.
10-03-2012, 07:25 AM
Greggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Well, I do have a few seals to finish up, so who knows, if I see it happen & think of it I may give you the proof you so desire, however I am sure I have seen it before in either case.

Yeah, I'd like to see this if possible, because in over 30 emp weapons, over 100 sets of fully +2'd jobs, I've -never- seen evidence to the contrary. If I've gotten a message on an ability, it has NEVER been that ability for proc.
10-03-2012, 07:34 AM
Llana_Virren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greggles

Yeah, I'd like to see this if possible, because in over 30 emp weapons, over 100 sets of fully +2'd jobs, I've -never- seen evidence to the contrary. If I've gotten a message on an ability, it has NEVER been that ability for proc.

This is because messages and procs do not occur on the same spell/ability. The trick is that sometimes you have situations of "EV Fire BLM" and "V/HV Fire BLM" and in the time between the EV and V/HV being placed on the list, someone gets a message for a spell, then retries and gets the (other) proc.
10-03-2012, 07:46 AM
Greggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

This is because messages and procs do not occur on the same spell/ability. The trick is that sometimes you have situations of "EV Fire BLM" and "V/HV Fire BLM" and in the time between the EV and V/HV being placed on the list, someone gets a message for a spell, then retries and gets the (other) proc.

Ahh, I wasn't sure how voidwatch worked in that sense, but I was speaking specifically about Abyssea. Sorry about the confusion. x.x
10-03-2012, 07:50 AM
Llana_Virren

Ah well my bad, forgot to add this at the end:

The "message or proc" rule works both in vw and abby; if it's the correct proc, you won't get a message.
10-03-2012, 08:13 AM
svengalis

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiko

that's true

nope.
calling hint on dirty proc and not redoing it after never failed us.

Well you got lucky then. Just last night I got hint on dirty proc and it was the proc ws.
10-03-2012, 08:16 AM
svengalis

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiko

POIDH!
nobody have posted pic on any forum of a spell/ws giving hint then procing (on the same mob, without the mob going passive)

Who's going to waste their time to do this on something that seldomly happens?
10-03-2012, 08:22 AM
svengalis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Ah well my bad, forgot to add this at the end:

The "message or proc" rule works both in vw and abby; if it's the correct proc, you won't get a message.

nevermind.
10-03-2012, 08:26 AM
svengalis

Quote:

Originally Posted by svengalis

Again, this is not true. I used to think this after someone told me it was. I would go through all other ws sometimes twice cause I had gotten hint on a dirty proc which turned out to be the correct ws. I have 4 emp weapons 14+ 99 jobs with 5/5 +2 for most of them.

Misread what virren said ignore my last post.
10-03-2012, 11:15 AM
Alerith

I can confirm that the trigger proc can cause a discernment message if it's dirty.

I had to trigger Red Lotus Blade because we got a hint of a Fire weaponskill weakness for red. Obviously, Red Lotus Blade is the only possible fire trigger for red.

I used RLB but Sharabha decided to start casting Stoneja at that time. RLB was dirty, but I still got the "The fiend appears to be vulnerable to Fire Elemental weaponskills!"

My next one was clean and caused the trigger.
10-03-2012, 12:57 PM
Rambus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greggles

It doesn't matter. If you've ever gotten the message - even if it was dirty - it's not that ability for the proc. You'll also never see a discern proc(in my and all of my friends' experiences) on the same spell/WS that the proc is.

like others said, no

I want to make things clear since the wording is confusing to me however.

You CAN get the hint on a failed proc attempt by the thing that procs it.
10-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Greggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambus

like others said, no

I want to make things clear since the wording is confusing to me however.

You CAN get the hint on a failed proc attempt by the thing that procs it.

Ok. I can admit when I'm wrong. And yeah, I apologize about the crappy wording, guess I didn't think that one through. xD
10-03-2012, 01:59 PM
Arcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by svengalis

Misread what virren said ignore my last post.

I don't think you misread. They said that you can't get a hint off the correct spell, which is false:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Ah well my bad, forgot to add this at the end:

The "message or proc" rule works both in vw and abby; if it's the correct proc, you won't get a message.

For Voidwatch however, this is true, simply because in VW a spell cannot be dirty. So you will always proc if it's the correct spell, and I don't think you can get a hint while you're staggering a mob (I am very sure of this).
10-03-2012, 11:31 PM
Fynlar

I have had countless, COUNTLESS instances in Abyssea of using the correct ws but having it dirty, and not once has it ever produced a discernment message when that happens. Not ONCE. And I've seen several atmas drop from mobs without red procs, so I am no stranger to rare Abyssea happenings. So I am also calling POIDH here, tbh

Quote:

For Voidwatch however, this is true, simply because in VW a spell cannot be dirty.

I'm pretty sure I've heard BLUs complain that their spells will not proc if the spell has an added effect which fails to land on the mob. I never like playing BLU in VW though so I can't cite any sort of personal experience there.
10-03-2012, 11:48 PM
Llana_Virren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynlar

I have had countless, COUNTLESS instances in Abyssea of using the correct ws but having it dirty, and not once has it ever produced a discernment message when that happens. Not ONCE. And I've seen several atmas drop from mobs without red procs, so I am no stranger to rare Abyssea happenings. So I am also calling POIDH here, tbh

I'm pretty sure I've heard BLUs complain that their spells will not proc if the spell has an added effect which fails to land on the mob. I never like playing BLU in VW though so I can't cite any sort of personal experience there.

Same. You get 1) Proc, 2) Message, 3) Nothing (dirty); I really think some people don't pay attention and just go off of "recollection" during the 9M or so times they kill something in Abby, and their experience gets blurred in together.
10-04-2012, 12:51 AM
Arcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynlar

I'm pretty sure I've heard BLUs complain that their spells will not proc if the spell has an added effect which fails to land on the mob. I never like playing BLU in VW though so I can't cite any sort of personal experience there.

That is not what I meant by dirty, that's simply a missed spell. By "dirty" I meant while mob uses a TP move, is casting or stunned and hence, despite landing, the spell will not stagger a weakness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

I really think some people don't pay attention and just go off of "recollection" during the 9M or so times they kill something in Abby, and their experience gets blurred in together.

My words.
10-04-2012, 02:55 AM
detlef

I've never seen the correct WS/spell give a discernment message in Abyssea. Can somebody post a screenshot? Doesn't have to be on this forum.

Also VW and Abyssea procs can't really be compared perfectly because VW procs constantly change. A weakness can be procced and be replaced by the same weakness immediately which can cause confusion.
10-04-2012, 03:01 AM
Infidi

It's pretty easy to ascertain that dirty proc messages in abyssea still give you a message. I've had it happen plenty of times. If the dirty proc message was the right proc it certainly couldn't proc if it was dirty, thus still giving the message and still able to be the right proc. This happend both as proccing yellow on BLM and as red on my WAR, during the mob doing a TP move/casting a spell.
10-04-2012, 07:38 AM
Fynlar

Quote:

That is not what I meant by dirty, that's simply a missed spell. By "dirty" I meant while mob uses a TP move, is casting or stunned and hence, despite landing, the spell will not stagger a weakness.

But technically, the spell hasn't missed. It can still land and do damage, but if the spell's added effect doesn't land for whatever reason, it doesn't get the proc. At least, that's what I've heard some BLUs say. No idea how accurate that is.

It's kinda like the inverse of when Blitzstrahl was a proc in Abyssea; where its stun effect would take effect before it would proc the mob, and therefore if the stun effect landed, it was unable to get a proc.
10-04-2012, 02:54 PM
Arcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynlar

But technically, the spell hasn't missed. It can still land and do damage, but if the spell's added effect doesn't land for whatever reason, it doesn't get the proc. At least, that's what I've heard some BLUs say. No idea how accurate that is.

I cannot argue that as my BLU knowledge can be summed up by "next to nothing". I don't even know which spells can do that, but I figured it was an accuracy issue. However, if it's not, then I agree that would indeed be "dirty".

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