To Dev's, are there any plans to fix Neo Nyzul Isle?

just wondered what is happening with this content, any plans so people who do not use 3rd party programs have better chance to win?

My LS doesnt cheat and has a 40% win rate. Even counting the runs we've been doing where we just bring whoever is new in my LS along.

Neo Nyzul is fine as is. It's a skill and gear dependent event, and it's nice that there are such things in this game.

Sorry, any event that practically requires a certain job--or, more specifically, a certain JA from said job--is screaming for an adjustment to include more players and a more diverse job arrangement. It's a bit insulting to any Summoner (with or without Alexander) or Scholar to be used simply for a JA and not it's full repertoire.

they are not just used for that JA, you use them as healer after that. But yeah I aggree..

It's called tactics. You don't bring a tank to a sea battle and you don't bring a battleship to a land battle. Great thing about this game is you can hop out of a tank and hop into a ship as needed.

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Originally Posted by Aarahs

It's called tactics. You don't bring a tank to a sea battle and you don't bring a battleship to a land battle. Great thing about this game is you can hop out of a tank and hop into a ship as needed.

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Bringing a knife to a gun fight is still ok though right!?

Seriously though, I like your post, it's funny and gets the point across.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Sorry, any event that practically requires a certain job--or, more specifically, a certain JA from said job--is screaming for an adjustment to include more players and a more diverse job arrangement.

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This describes every event ever in the history of FFXI that was worth doing, every event ever has had its best and required jobs since the beginning of the game. Maybe you should just go play a different game.

Wish I had a skilled LS for this event :( too many casual gamers.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Bringing a knife to a gun fight is still ok though right!?

Seriously though, I like your post, it's funny and gets the point across.



This describes every event ever in the history of FFXI that was worth doing, every event ever has had its best and required jobs since the beginning of the game. Maybe you should just go play a different game.

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evrey event had a best required job but none was "best job combo or you loose"

but back it take a lot longer just to get job to 75 than it take now to lvl it 99, full merit it, get decent gear and lvl sub to 49 if needed

Skill and gear based events yes please.
I'll just chime in here that in 2012 it's easy to exp, skill up, get an empy or relic and gear yourself, so the boohoo limited jobs usable speech is mundane. Go exp and get rdy and do the content. This isn't abyssea anymore get used to it.

People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.

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It's too damn random, that is it's issue. There is a laundry list of "gotcha's" that SE can do to utterly screw over your run, and while skill can compensate for some of them, if you get hit with more then a couple no amount of *cough* "skill" will save you. I wish they would remove lamp order floors entirely, or restrict them to no more then three lamps. Re-adjust the jumping randomize to no longer be weighted towards four floor jumps and against 7~9 floor jumps. Also remove the random f*ck you pathos's like no-white-magic and no-weapon-skills, those on a boss floor and your toast or even a really high level floor and your toast.

It's basically just running a gauntlet and hoping that the dice don't roll a natural 1 for game over.

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter. I dont have an exceptionally high rate of victory on this content either and i have no sets of nyzul gear done yet. But the content is beatable. What gets me is why everytime i go to the portal, i see perle drgs and wars, with a whm, or ninjas, and they think they will win with such slow output. Then they wipe, lose, whatever comes about from it, then they come here and rage about how the content sucks and its too hard. Back before abyssea this game had setups and organization for content, its also a piece of content you cannot do everyday, so its not like lvling a job for it is so omg bad. Im glad the game is back to setups and organized job layouts for stuff like this. Running into every bit of content and zerging it with no effort is boring as hell. Say what you like, at the end of the day all the ranting in the world will change nothing.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter. I dont have an exceptionally high rate of victory on this content either and i have no sets of nyzul gear done yet. But the content is beatable. What gets me is why everytime i go to the portal, i see perle drgs and wars, with a whm, or ninjas, and they think they will win with such slow output. Then they wipe, lose, whatever comes about from it, then they come here and rage about how the content sucks and its too hard. Back before abyssea this game had setups and organization for content, its also a piece of content you cannot do everyday, so its not like lvling a job for it is so omg bad. Im glad the game is back to setups and organized job layouts for stuff like this. Running into every bit of content and zerging it with no effort is boring as hell. Say what you like, at the end of the day all the ranting in the world will change nothing.

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You must never have been around when jobs like Summoner, Dragoon, and Dark Knight were entirely shut out of these events you so fervently defend--I won't even mention BST and PUP since people can't get arrested even now thanks to the ignorance spouted on "professional" endgame forums. What reason is there for creating events that basically shuts out players who don't play cookie-cutter jobs approved by the forum that shall not be named (a la Voldemort)?

NNI would have been fine if the time were extended to 45~60 minutes to offset the increased difficulty and luck factors. As is, however, it is needlessly difficult and encourages Gameshark-type cheating.

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NNI would have been fine if the time were extended to 45~60 minutes to offset the increased difficulty and luck factors. As is, however, it is needlessly difficult and encourages Gameshark-type cheating.

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In all honestly it was designed during Tanaka's time. The floor 100 gear is a giant shining carrot with the event itself being the stick. You were supposed to throw yourself at it constantly with little hope for success until SE came out with better content. Eventually they consented that it was indeed nigh impossible to beat and settled on the whole win= guaranteed choice item and 25 floor 80 wins = guaranteed choice item. Look at the +3 items, those are actually really nice. You were supposed to farm floor 80 for the +3 drops and slowly build up the 25 KI's for the floor 100 items. Farming floor 100 itself is a red herring (from developers point of view).

This is from someone who has 15/15 and something like 20 floor 80 KI's. They really did expect everyone to farm 25 floor 80 kills per item.

NNI is boring, lack-luster endgame content that is unimaginative and NOT skill based.

We win...heres how. Go in 2 sch (capped enhancing w/enhancing gear merits), 4 sam all geared to the teeth with macro gear and empy, everyone on vent. Go in buff/embrava sams run in different directions using speed gear like powder boots to make them get where they need to go faster, both sch stay at lamp, sam finish objective > move to the next floor reapply embrava and repeat. NO SKILL NEEDED so I call bs on anyone saying its skill related. Gear yes, skill no.

Lamp floors, easy. Everyone is on vent. Make order and same time lamps easy sch can accession > snk/inv > powder boots for flee, get to lamps using vent to talk you can take down the order fast, by now there is usually someone back at lamp since there is rarely, if ever 6 lamps on a floor. Lamp floors can be faster than kill all floors if everyone knows the drill.

Bosses > buff/zerg/win/disappointedface

All the ppl who win this sans cheats need no real skill. And the ppl who cheat...well thats true laziness. It all really comes down to what floors the rng wants to spit out

sam/sch are the only jobs needed so if you dont have one of these with capped skills and geared to the teeth, you are S.O.L. son.

So yes it does need to be tweaked for time extensions and what not, make it open to more ppl/jobs so more ppl can enjoy it. As it is right now...well there's a reason staff changes are being made

I agree that it comes down to what floors the rng gives you.

I disagree that SAM is in anyway needed. My group has 12 wins so far, we've won with WAR, DRG, THF, MNK, SAM, and DRK. Pretty much any decent DD that will get the full benefit from embrava will tear it up in there.

Edit: obviously not all those jobs on the same run, as we do SCHx2 every time.

any DD will do, you are wrecking EP mobs . Damage is not the pb. it's luck that matters. and you spend most of the time running around.

NNI could be replaced with teleporting to a room with no exit until 30 minutes has passed, and a /random for gear drops.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

NNI could be replaced with teleporting to a room with no exit until 30 minutes has passed, and a /random for gear drops.

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That would be Neo Bhaflau Remnants

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Originally Posted by Mostfowl

NNI is boring, lack-luster endgame content that is unimaginative and NOT skill based.

We win...heres how. Go in 2 sch (capped enhancing w/enhancing gear merits), 4 sam all geared to the teeth with macro gear and empy, everyone on vent. Go in buff/embrava sams run in different directions using speed gear like powder boots to make them get where they need to go faster, both sch stay at lamp, sam finish objective > move to the next floor reapply embrava and repeat. NO SKILL NEEDED so I call bs on anyone saying its skill related. Gear yes, skill no.

Lamp floors, easy. Everyone is on vent. Make order and same time lamps easy sch can accession > snk/inv > powder boots for flee, get to lamps using vent to talk you can take down the order fast, by now there is usually someone back at lamp since there is rarely, if ever 6 lamps on a floor. Lamp floors can be faster than kill all floors if everyone knows the drill.

Bosses > buff/zerg/win/disappointedface

All the ppl who win this sans cheats need no real skill. And the ppl who cheat...well thats true laziness. It all really comes down to what floors the rng wants to spit out

sam/sch are the only jobs needed so if you dont have one of these with capped skills and geared to the teeth, you are S.O.L. son.

So yes it does need to be tweaked for time extensions and what not, make it open to more ppl/jobs so more ppl can enjoy it. As it is right now...well there's a reason staff changes are being made

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It requires at least the ability to kill quickly. If I follow your logic, i'm yet to see what requires skill in the game.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

any DD will do, you are wrecking EP mobs . Damage is not the pb. it's luck that matters. and you spend most of the time running around.

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The only places where you need high powered DD are Boss floors or floor 60+ leader / kill all floors. Those places then to have NMs with lots of HP that hit really hard.

We've won with various setups depending on who needed the gear that day.
Our super group / static that consistently won was
SCH
SCH
WAR (Rag)
WAR (Ukon)
THF (Mandau)
BLU (Almace, me)

Ride bergressor and eat meat while running around killing everything. We found a good BLU (read: not an abyssea / voidwatch proc onry BLU) to be invaluable. Requiscat and various damage types are helpful on floors with undead or flan NMs. That and BLU's can destroy EP~EM monsters while also being able to stun most NMs (not boss's though).

Is it also true that TH affects how many pieces of gear that can drop from the boss? I heard of a group with a THF getting 3 pieces to drop from the boss. Without TH it's either 0-1 pieces.

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Originally Posted by Komori

Is it also true that TH affects how many pieces of gear that can drop from the boss? I heard of a group with a THF getting 3 pieces to drop from the boss. Without TH it's either 0-1 pieces.

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Yes TH dramatically effects the floor 100 boss. We routinely got three drops off him and occasionally two.

It's not the DDs that are the issue. SAM is hardly needed, in fact isn't SAM kind of LOL these days compared to war and drk? Regardless, any good 2 handed DD will be fine, and many other jobs such as blue mage and mnk will be fine as well. DDs need to know how to swap gear, macro weaponskill and tp sets, have full haste, understand their x-hit if 2handed, etc. Understandably reading a lot of people's post on this forum and seeing some in game that is a big issue.

The real issue with Neo Nyzul is the ridiculousness of requiring 2 scholars full timing embrava to win. Does no one else think an event that takes 6 people and 2 have to be scholar 2 houring is silly? I know other events had jobs that were "better" but never did a low man event like neo nyzul REQUIRE 2/6 players to be the same job. I guess 1 rdm/drk out of 18 chain spell stunning a boss at 75, but the reliance on embrava in this event is just horrible bad design to me. Even when kraken drk was nerfed no one really missed a beat except for AV.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

It's not the DDs that are the issue. SAM is hardly needed, in fact isn't SAM kind of LOL these days compared to war and drk? Regardless, any good 2 handed DD will be fine, and many other jobs such as blue mage and mnk will be fine as well. DDs need to know how to swap gear, macro weaponskill and tp sets, have full haste, understand their x-hit if 2handed, etc. Understandably reading a lot of people's post on this forum and seeing some in game that is a big issue.

The real issue with Neo Nyzul is the ridiculousness of requiring 2 scholars full timing embrava to win. Does no one else think an event that takes 6 people and 2 have to be scholar 2 houring is silly? I know other events had jobs that were "better" but never did a low man event like neo nyzul REQUIRE 2/6 players to be the same job. I guess 1 rdm/drk out of 18 chain spell stunning a boss at 75, but the reliance on embrava in this event is just horrible bad design to me. Even when kraken drk was nerfed no one really missed a beat except for AV.

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It was designed to only be won once per couple of months. Artificial difficulty injected by Tanaka's RNG. As I mentioned before NNI has several cheap things that can happen and will ruin a run, it's not just order lamps but different NM's and such, especially past floor 60. And ultimately your at the mercy of the RNG for floor jumps, couple of weeks back it was stupid, out of seven runs (between two weeks) five of them requires 20+ jumps to get to 100 and the other two were failures due to some really stupid sh!t happening. Sometimes you can get there in 17, other times it'll take 23 (highest recorded win so far). Sometimes it'll be spec enemy right next to the lamp, other times it'll be Kill All with Genbu, Krutzel and Tarasque all next to each other. Sometimes it'll be code lamp near the door, other times it'll be order / same time with one lamp being two rooms east and five rooms south of the start.

The idea of double Embrava and all the special *magic* is to give yourself the maximum amount of advantages to overcome the SE F*CK Y*U RNG. So when it throws three to four straight two floor jumps with stupid objectives or pathos's at you, your still able to overcome them and eek a win out. Very rarely does a single thing cause a failure, it's usually the cumulative effects of three to four "bad luck" rolls of the dice that cause you to fail at floor ~90.

Right, SE probably didn't imagine the double embrava strategy. That is all players trying to overcome like you said. If SE really doesn't want to adjust the event , at minimum make the lobby a true lobby and have the timer not start. In addition can't they do something about the lag after you hit the lamps?

If you do not have right job suck it up and lvl the right job needed there is a reason why we can lvl multiple jobs unlike other MMO were you can only lvl up 1 job

As someone who's only participated in 3 runs, and won all of them, I wish NNI was more about skill/gear than luck.
I very much dislike that it's possible for one run to be full of screw-you-over lamp floors, while another could be Code Lamp Floors that complete quickly.
Just as well, pathos can royally screw you at any moment.

If this was not such a tight, time-based event, I might not mind.
If this was not an event that ran on the terrible limitations of Assault Tags, I might not mind.

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Originally Posted by Ryanx

If you do not have right job suck it up and lvl the right job needed there is a reason why we can lvl multiple jobs unlike other MMO were you can only lvl up 1 job

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NNI has nothing to do with having the right job. I ran it on DNC, and we also had a THF. People run it with heavier DDs than that and still fail because the event is so random.

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Originally Posted by Kari

As someone who's only participated in 3 runs, and won all of them, I wish NNI was more about skill/gear than luck.
I very much dislike that it's possible for one run to be full of screw-you-over lamp floors, while another could be Code Lamp Floors that complete quickly.
Just as well, pathos can royally screw you at any moment.

If this was not such a tight, time-based event, I might not mind.
If this was not an event that ran on the terrible limitations of Assault Tags, I might not mind.



NNI has nothing to do with having the right job. I ran it on DNC, and we also had a THF. People run it with heavier DDs than that and still fail because the event is so random.

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You're missing the whole reasoning behind embrava-ing NNI.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

My LS doesnt cheat and has a 40% win rate. Even counting the runs we've been doing where we just bring whoever is new in my LS along.

Neo Nyzul is fine as is. It's a skill and gear dependent event, and it's nice that there are such things in this game.

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About the same rate for my group and the random people we tend to take along.

It is luck based mainly, but because of that more skill, gear, and coordination are required.

I believe it is fine as is.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Sorry, any event that practically requires a certain job--or, more specifically, a certain JA from said job--is screaming for an adjustment

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Where were you the entire history of this game? Chainspell stun on dynamis lord and NMs back in the day? LS typically only wanting PLDs to tank most HNMs? XP pts that only wanted a BRD COR RDM (or whm) and 3 DDs? Each job has its own element to excel in and be unique in. When you blur those lines and anything works for everything then you might as well just start taking jobs out of the game. It was never cried adjustment that RDM, BLU, or BST could solo NMs back at 75. If it is not broken you don't need to go make it conform to everyone's wishes because everyone wants something different anyway.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

People are still defending NNI? It's a horribly designed event and you all know it, lamp order floors and zerg tactics don't showcase your skill, it just showcases your willingness to jog on a hamster wheel for shinies.

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Yes, because when two identical groups go in and one wins a run or two and the other is wiping on floor 13, takes 4 minutes to find a register lamp, and clears kill all floors slower than the other then it clearly is not skill based at all! Playing this game at all shows a willingness to run on hamster wheel. Your analogy is dumb.

NNI is not broken. Go to any random shout group for something simple. Say an abyssea MB win, and you will see why people can't win and complain. The average caliber player is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Also remove the random f*ck you pathos's like no-white-magic and no-weapon-skills, those on a boss floor and your toast or even a really high level floor and your toast.

It's basically just running a gauntlet and hoping that the dice don't roll a natural 1 for game over.

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Getting something like a kill all with no WSs does not guarantee a loss. The pathos and random events that you can benefit from or be hindered by are just a part of what makes Nyzul. Every other event in this game is based on constants as it is. I would find it hard to believe anyone could seriously claim that they get tired of Nyzul faster than other events in this game. It is always different when you go on and never know what to expect. That is what Nyzul has always been. Just when you think it is over there is your five floor jump, free floor, nine floor jump, register next to the lamp, five floor jump, spec enemy at the start, and so on. Just when you think you have won you get 99 kill all with genbu and hydra with three minutes left and a lot of invincible.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

but never did a low man event like neo nyzul REQUIRE 2/6 players to be the same job.

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DL at 75, two RDMs for chainspell stun. BLM parties for Aspid. Come on certain jobs being used repeatedly is nothing new. Just because it is a lowman event does not change anything. Who cares if it is two anyway? Events always require a job for a specific purpose here and there. The only reason two of the same are taken is to repeat the same purpose.

You can win this without two SCHs too. It is not actually "REQUIRE"D. You would sub in a BRD for one of them which may actually be what happens with the embrava nerf.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Yes, because when two identical groups go in and one wins a run or two and the other is wiping on floor 13, takes 4 minutes to find a register lamp, and clears kill all floors slower than the other then it clearly is not skill based at all! Playing this game at all shows a willingness to run on hamster wheel. Your analogy is dumb.

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Oh wow, it's possible for two groups to perform completely differently, that's not shocking news at all. It also doesn't change the fact that this event sucks. Talk about skill and gear all you want all day long, NNI is still going to suck. You even admitted in your post that it's not skill based, yet you try and defend it by saying that it takes skill, but I'd be willing to wager that your hypothesis is completely false and the only reason anybody wins is due to the RNG not turning any given run into a hot mess. The sole contributing factor to victory in NNI is damage output, and it doesn't take much brain power to press a few buttons or set up a WS macro.

Skill is threading the needle with a pet that paths like an overweight autistic child with bowlegs, running through empty rooms and beating down lone mobs while occasionally pressing a button in sequence with other people is not. This event is still terrible, by the way.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Oh wow, it's possible for two groups to perform completely differently, that's not shocking news at all. It also doesn't change the fact that this event sucks. Talk about skill and gear all you want all day long, NNI is still going to suck. You even admitted in your post that it's not skill based, yet you try and defend it by saying that it takes skill

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Stop looking at it in a black and white manner please. How are you unable to understand that skill and luck factor in? Some people hate the ways certain things work while others enjoy it very much. We don't change events because it was not tailored to a specific groups liking.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

but I'd be willing to wager that your hypothesis is completely false and the only reason anybody wins is due to the RNG not turning any given run into a hot mess.

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Three order lamps last night in a run last night with an uncomfortable number of low jumps thrown in and we won with a couple of minutes to spare. The run before that literally had four two floor jumps in a row ( not to mention) and we only ended up finishing 92 with thirty seconds left because it was a huge same time lamp floor. If we managed to pound through a couple seconds faster on every floor then that could have easily been a win.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

The sole contributing factor to victory in NNI is damage output, and it doesn't take much brain power to press a few buttons or set up a WS macro.

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Damage output is a factor that is involved in winning all events. By your logic this game does not take much brain power at all. Therefore I would wonder what really needs to actually be changed?
Is it a problem that people would rather try to burn through an event like legion that requires some skill instead of actually trying to make it more challenging by leaving the embrava stunners home?

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Skill is threading the needle with a pet that paths like an overweight autistic child with bowlegs, running through empty rooms and beating down lone mobs while occasionally pressing a button in sequence with other people is not. This event is still terrible, by the way.

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Again with the idiotic analogies huh? I do not even know what you are honestly even saying going on about overweight children with bowlegs.

Nothing makes this event terrible other than the fact that you do not like it. You and your analogies can do all the other events in this game then.

Ooh, anecdotal evidence supporting Luck > Skill! Herp derp.

Also no, this game doesn't require much brain power to play successfully. If anything it requires patience and a stubborn refusal to be disheartened by the hateful RNG, but that's a discussion for some other thread.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Ooh, anecdotal evidence supporting Luck > Skill! Herp derp.

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Yes because your analogies have been something to be very proud of. Hurr-durr.

Your acquired knowledge of the game, tools (gear) at your disposal, and prowess with the controls determines your overall skill. Quit acting like this event has nothing to do with skill because some all mighty RNG determines everything. You will get more jumps going in with well geared people who can coordinate and move quickly as a team than you will with the people who do not.

Here let me make the debate simple so we can potentially skate around a rebuttal involving an analogy.

*More jumps within 30 minutes means a greater chance of winning despite bad luck from the RNG.

*Skilled groups jump more often than less skilled groups (typically the people who complain Nyzul is "too hard").

It is as simple as that. You can not win all the runs, and obviously will have some bad luck. However, there is no good reason you can not win one out of three runs on average or better every few nights your group goes.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

If anything it requires patience and a stubborn refusal to be disheartened by the hateful RNG, but that's a discussion for some other thread.

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Do we really need to question who is being stubborn? I think you may possibly be surprised by the answer.

Random thoughts I want to reply to since I last looked at this thread like 3 days ago:

Playing a melee job is not all that hard. You engage things, you use abilities once in awhile, and you WS when you have 100 TP. Simple as that.

The skill part of these jobs comes in knowing what gear to get and use for what enemies, WSing right before or right when you get 100 TP, knowing when it is most effective to use your abilities, learning how to acquire the gear you need, actually acquiring it, etc. For Nyzul specifically, macroing on/off run fast shoes to do your best to remove engage/disengage position lock is a pretty skill based thing to do, knowing when the flan NM suddenly gets healed when you hit it with your stick so you don't suddenly fill it back up to 100%, having good memory so you know which ways you have run already, which ways other players have run already, where other players are when they say things like "I found it," and knowing to not follow the other person when there are two ways you could go.

SAM is good in Neo Nyzul? Since when?
WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

WAR because it has a huge single target WS (Ukkos Fury), a big damage AOE WS (Fell Cleave) and Tomahawk for annoying mobs that take reduced damage, like some of the flan NMs, slimes, skeletons, etc, that you constantly fight all the time. It also has cheap/easy to acquire run fast shoes (Hermes Sandels) from the AH.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

MNK is worse off than the previous two, but it can use Formless Strikes to fight the flan NM when it goes into "physical damage heals me mode," or to beat on things like slimes. It also has Hermes Sandels. And its not like the stuff in Neo Nyzul is hard at all, so it doesn't take much of a hit from being a 1 handed weapon job.

SAM DRK DRG do not have this one advantage MNK has over them, so they are all inferior compared to it. And 1 handed melees are generally just bad compared to 2 handed in any event where you basically sit at capped haste all the time, since their Dual Wild suffers tremendously, their WS's are all inferior damage comparatively and their overall DoT is just much lower, and thats the only thing the remaining jobs have going for them.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Yes because your analogies have been something to be very proud of. Hurr-durr.

Your acquired knowledge of the game, tools (gear) at your disposal, and prowess with the controls determines your overall skill. Quit acting like this event has nothing to do with skill because some all mighty RNG determines everything. You will get more jumps going in with well geared people who can coordinate and move quickly as a team than you will with the people who do not.

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You've used the term skill 7 times across the last 3 posts in reference to pressing buttons and running forward. Just wanted to put that into perspective. I'm also going to assume that by repeating the term skilled you actually mean geared, it's not like you're crocheting blankets for orphans or anything you're just pressing buttons.

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Do we really need to question who is being stubborn? I think you may possibly be surprised by the answer.

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The answer is both. You stand by your argument that you're some kind of FFXI commando pro, and I stand by mine that the only reason anyone wins is the RNG allows it. We're not going to convince one another of anything.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

You've used the term skill 7 times across the last 3 posts in reference to pressing buttons and running forward. Just wanted to put that into perspective. I'm also going to assume that by repeating the term skilled you actually mean geared, it's not like you're crocheting blankets for orphans or anything you're just pressing buttons.

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I consider skilled being more than geared. In the last post I even mentioned knowledge, gear, and prowess with the controls being the main components of skill. When it comes to Nyzul coordination is a fourth aspect added on.

After reading that you should not continue to replace "skill" with "pressing buttons and running forward".

Instead of writing yet another pseudo-intellectual analogy you could have addressed the two bulleted sentences in the previous post. So the answer is not "both" of us are actually being stubborn. I am making points and you pretty much shake your head at anything that does not end up leading to "nope RNG guiz".

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Originally Posted by Caketime

You stand by your argument that you're some kind of FFXI commando pro, and I stand by mine that the only reason anyone wins is the RNG allows it. We're not going to convince one another of anything.

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I am not some sort of commando pro and happen to be easily replaceable in my group.

The RNG 'allowing' a win is not the real reason they won. They won because they tried instead of worrying about chance over and over. Out of curiosity how many pieces of Nyzul gear has that RNG permitted you to obtain?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

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I would not consider BLU to be one of the best melees for Nyzul. However, they are very acceptable to bring and have their moments of utility that shine above what others can preform every now and then.

If the BLU does not have 5/5 requiscate then they are not even worth bringing off the bat. Requiscate on kill all floors repeatedly shines on the NM slimes you run into as well as the normal slimes and puddings. It also shines on the troll NM and the PDT custard leader. Especially with enfire being doled out as the BLU will be walking around with significant double and tripple attack.
Sudden lunge saves runs and time by preventing the chariot leader from spamming charm, the imp NM from amnesia, the rats from their amnesia, EES, and terror, etc. AoEing rooms of mobs down on kill all floors is great too.

That being said if you have a BLU IMO there is no reason for a MNK. Formless strikes becomes useless (especially from not being ready all the time). Rag DRK, Ukon WAR, Masamune SAM, etc just fill the slot better once the BLU has filled in.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

The reason it gets defended by a small portion of people is because theyve found it to be winnable, losing to random bad luck is something you have to overlook. Wanting SE to change the bad luck/obstacle element of NNI is about the same as asking for the gear to be handed to you a silver platter..

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No, you can change the event so as to make it less of "0 or 1". It's easy to keep the luck part predominant while still giving away bones for when your group doesn't have SCH or when you had a lamp order or when you don't play under cheatmode. There are plenty of solutions but the best one is the following :

* allow each boss to drop a shard from the KI needed to get F100 drop.
* each boss (20/40/60/80/100) are now equal and will drop a cell.
* killing 20/60/80 boss is now necessary to progress further.
* Last boss dops a random armor but not 100% of the time (make it 10%).
* you require 100 shards to exchange an armor at the NPC.

explanations :
-each boss helps you progress so even with far from optimal setups you can progress.
-If you are good OR lucky you will get more shards than other.
-If you are very lucky you may end up getting to floors 100, thus benefitting from a 4rth shard plus a chance at the treasure pool.
-It requires minimal effort to change the current system.
- Forcing people to do inbetween floors helps transforming NNI into a more progressive event.

Anyway, in the census, NNI thread ranked like 3rd in the number of likes so the devs must fix it assap. My suggestion still allows embrava user to perform better but it would be not as much important because 90% of the time even with no embrava you are going to reach F60.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

No, you can change the event so as to make it less of "0 or 1". It's easy to keep the luck part predominant while still giving away bones for when your group doesn't have SCH or when you had a lamp order or when you don't play under cheatmode. There are plenty of solutions but the best one is the following :

* allow each boss to drop a shard from the KI needed to get F100 drop.
* each boss (20/40/60/80/100) are now equal and will drop a cell.
* killing 20/60/80 boss is now necessary to progress further.
* Last boss dops a random armor but not 100% of the time (make it 10%).
* you require 100 shards to exchange an armor at the NPC.

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That easily makes the event worse than it is. Who needs 100 shards when if all is lost you can win floor 80 easily. If my objective was 80 I think my win rate would shoot to 90+%.

Taking away the boss dropping armor 100% on floor 100 also pointlessly makes the event worse.

Forcing floor 20/40/60 bosses is a silly pointless change. The event in SEs mind has rewards that were not put there for progressive system to easily change. Considering any group that has more than one oar in the water should be able to get to floor 60 in a single run why should they allow it to become progressive so you can springboard from that?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

-If you are very lucky you may end up getting to floors 100, thus benefitting from a 4rth shard plus a chance at the treasure pool.

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Or if you are "very lucky" you could just win and get 1-3 pieces of gear with a KI for another instead of being 8% done towards a single piece. Where does the latter seem better? Floor 100 is not that hard to get to at all.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Anyway, in the census, NNI thread ranked like 3rd in the number of likes so the devs must fix it assap.

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Lol, there could be a thread with a record number of likes that stated heavy metal plates should be lowered from needing 1500 to 1000 and it does not mean the Devs have to do anything.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

My suggestion still allows embrava user to perform better but it would be not as much important because 90% of the time even with no embrava you are going to reach F60.

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Originally Posted by Anchorman

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

I consider skilled being more than geared. In the last post I even mentioned knowledge, gear, and prowess with the controls being the main components of skill. When it comes to Nyzul coordination is a fourth aspect added on.

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You see that bearded gentlemen with the look of disappointment on his face in the bottom right panel of your sig? That's the face I'm making right now, all of the things you pointed out are game basics, and for all your over-explanation it still boils down to pressing buttons and running forward. The details for the most part hardly matter outside of gear choice, being that our characters have a linear stat progression and there are literally zero differences between one character and another of the same job aside from racial bonuses and gear. Merits might have achieved some semblance of customizaion if there weren't blatant garbage merit choices among the good ones, so even in that aspect players of the same job are extremely likely to have the same abilities merited, or be told to sit in the corner with RDM and BST.

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After reading that you should not continue to replace "skill" with "pressing buttons and running forward".

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No.

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Instead of writing yet another pseudo-intellectual analogy you could have addressed the two bulleted sentences in the previous post. So the answer is not "both" of us are actually being stubborn. I am making points and you pretty much shake your head at anything that does not end up leading to "nope RNG guiz".

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You are unable to convince me that your awesome cookie cutter strategies and ability to communicate with 5 other people via voice chat programs makes you more capable of winning an event where luck plays a huge factor in every aspect. Conversely, I am unable to convince you that this event sucks and is a RNG slot machine disguised as "fun". It's OK to be stubborn, it just shows that you're passionate about this particular aspect of the game and nothing I say is going to change your mind. Have fun in there

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I am not some sort of commando pro and happen to be easily replaceable in my group.

The RNG 'allowing' a win is not the real reason they won. They won because they tried instead of worrying about chance over and over. Out of curiosity how many pieces of Nyzul gear has that RNG permitted you to obtain?

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0. I play BST and am not ideal for timed events requiring spike damage, so I'm defaulted to the corner to play craps with RDM and discuss our plans for world domination. My problem with this event is that typing everything out eats up time and every second counts, if the devs added a voice option compatible between xbawks and PC it would be that much easier to keep everyone on the same page in situations where lamps need to be fondled in a specific order and what have you.