Can we please get more gradual progressions through the level 99 relics, for example with Excalibur we could have:
Excalibur 99-i = 5 marrows
Excalibur 99-ii = 10 marrows
Excalibur 99-iii = 15 Marrows
Excalibur 99-iv = 20 ...
(etc, each progressively getting stronger each stage - these are just hypothetical numbers)
It seems like the current jump is to say, "if you obtain a 99-2 relic, your weapon will be as strong as it will ever be - and you'll never advance it further in FFXI's future"... is that the case? Isn't there a new expansion coming out - are we to logically conclude that either a.) the relics will become obsolete - or b.) that the new content will be still suited for those same items (equally challenging to current content)?
So to be clear, what I'm suggesting is that there be additional level 99 relic stages to what there are now (only 2), and that the stages be achievable (not as outlandish as they are now) and rewarding (but within sensible reason). Smaller increments of more gradual rewards would be a more enjoyable play experience.
Suggestion for 99 relics
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09-18-2012, 11:58 PMOakrestSuggestion for 99 relics
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09-19-2012, 01:08 AMDragonlord
This is exactly how the afterglow stage of the 99 relics work, there's just no third stage. First stage relic lv 99 is 5 marrows. Afterglow is 250.
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09-19-2012, 01:18 AMOakrestOh interesting, I thought they were two separate paths. Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonlord
I'm going to try and update my OP to cut to the deeper problem then... -
09-19-2012, 01:35 AMKrashportExcalibur 99-1 = 50 marrowsQuote:
Originally Posted by Oakrest
Excalibur 99-2 = 80 marrows
Excalibur 99-3 = 125 Marrows
There you go fixed! ^^b -
09-19-2012, 02:15 AMDemon6324236
Well really either way it doesn't matter. If you make an afterglow, I label you as an idiot on the spot, no matter who you are how good you are. Adding more trials to this to make it take longer would make no difference, Afterglow was put in as a bragging right which is stupid by the amount of selfishness, greed, and stupidity, required to make one.
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09-19-2012, 02:28 AMOakrestBut if you had a 99-1 relic, you're exponentially more likely to make the next stage if it is not an unfair step. Steps should be a bit more like a staircase.. some consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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09-19-2012, 02:33 AMDemon6324236
If the stats actually improved, perhaps. Afterglow is nothing more than worthless in most cases, meaning its no upgrade at all.
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09-19-2012, 06:50 AMRekin
I came in expecting that perhaps the suggestion would be along the lines of:
"Replace the crappy(for most relics anyway) ws with a new higher tiered version that doesn't suck!"
But back on topic, afterglow is silly. -
09-19-2012, 08:14 AMOakrestYea it really is, I guess my point is that there should be way more steps to progress through and gradual rewards on the way - that way lots of people will be at lots of different stages - rather than just one massive upwards curve before the next available reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekin
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09-19-2012, 08:21 AMOakrestYea exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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09-19-2012, 08:32 AMDemon6324236
Well I haven't really understood what your asking for, I looked at it as if you were saying you wanted them to just make steps upto Afterglow rather than actual upgrades, which is what makes it hard to understand what kinda upgrades your looking for with this.
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09-20-2012, 02:59 AMOakrestI wasn't really clear - so you raise a good point. Part of what I'm also hoping is that the end reward will also be more meaningful (so more steps to progress through, and little rewards along the way - different than glowing, yes).Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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09-20-2012, 05:37 AMDemon6324236
That seems to go against SE's intentions though, these were literally made for showing off. Proof of this is the Horn/Harp. So far as I see, there is literally no benefit at all what so ever to doing that last trial.
http://img.bluegartr.com/wiki/2/23/G...escription.png
http://img.bluegartr.com/wiki/e/e2/D...escription.png
However I do agree it would be nice. -
09-20-2012, 06:12 AMsaevel
.. Umm...
Harp has a BIG bonus for being 99, the fourth song. -
09-20-2012, 06:17 AMDemon6324236No, not 99, 99-2. I know there is a massive boost to them for taking them 95 to 99, however 99 to 99-2 has no upgrade what so ever. No afterglow, no extra stats, so far as I know, there is literally no benefit what so ever to doing the final trial which would award afterglow to these items.Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel
I suppose I should have been more clear myself, by last trial I meant the trial in which normally applies an Afterglow to a Relic/Mythic/Emp. There is no Afterglow for Harp/Horn, or any other bonus that I know of, meaning it is literally for showing off and thats it. Hell, honestly I don't even know if they glow when you sing, if not, there is no difference at all in any way, be it stats, item, or looks. -
09-20-2012, 07:22 AMsaevelOhh yeah those are just so that people have something they can brag about. You know cause their all hard core and want to camp 72hr HNMs, that kind of stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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09-20-2012, 07:30 AMOakrestYea that's pretty much where I'm at with this thread when I created it - hoping to get some community interest and then maybe SE too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
It's sort of like the current 99-2 says, "obtain one of these relics and it's game over, cause we can't think of anything to do with this weapon after that".
BTW, I updated my OP again hoping it makes my intent clearer for first readers. -
09-20-2012, 08:00 AMsaevelIt was done as a compromise, there were very vocal people who demanded relics take years to complete and should "mean something". There were also an equally vocal group of people who demanded relics shouldn't be the province of EGLS's and should be open for anyone to acquire. So as a compromise SE made it such that only five marrows would be needed to make it 99 so the "everyone should get them" crowd is happy while making a stupidly high requirement for the relic that shines so the "it should mean something" crowd would be happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakrest
Of course that second crowd was never asking it to "mean something", they just didn't want others to have them, so very few people actually chase the 99-2 upgrades. -
09-21-2012, 01:18 AMOakrestBut what you're saying here is different than what you've underlined in my post. You're suggesting a difference in player base demand for relic content resulted in those two separate achievable milestones (and that's probably true), but what I'm talking about is that we're seeing a very clear end to content in general (a higher level concern than these two forks). In other words, regardless of how hard or tricky it is to obtain either of these two relic forms - what happens after that? Nothing? Game over?Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel
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09-21-2012, 01:37 AMDemon6324236
I don't think either me nor Saevel disagree with your idea of having more trials to make the m powerful afterwords. We are just saying that its not really what those trials were for, they weren't meant to be to make the weapon more powerful, they were just supposed to have something that stands out and makes you look different than everyone else. As I showed with the Harp & Horn, they made that very clear seeing as those trials add nothing at all to the weapon it seems, its just there. But in either case, I wouldn't mind them making more trials to make them more powerful but I doubt it will go much of anywhere because they clearly made it for people who want to stand out.
As for what happens after you make 1, you make another, or you work on another job. I mean any time you try to be the best of something or make the most out of a job, once you hit the top of it where do you go? Well, you just climbed a mountain, time to climb another! -
09-21-2012, 01:54 AMOakrestWhen we look back at how that happened in the past (obtaining the highest possible tier of equip/weapon), it was all very reasonably achievable - even some of the hardest stuff. The fact that the current 99-2 relics require such a massive leap to achieve (with a disproportionately small 'reward') means it's really like no other content we've seen thus far. Artifacts from 1 to 3 were all easily achievable - even the original 75 relics. In the example of AF 3's: as +1, and +2's were revealed so were the reasonable steps to achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
Imagine for a minute that we needed 200 umbral marrows to achieve AF3+2 equipment? Obviously we would all have said the same thing we're saying about 99-2 "that's stupid-hard and more so too time consuming to achieve", but my point now is that we also would have said "I guess that's it for Artifact+3, no more progress after that - not only for the artifact itself, but for any new content".
Using this type of rational, I don't think it's outlandish to think we will see Artifact3 +3 in the new expansion and the reason is because the previous step (AF3+2) was reasonably achievable. Therefore, I think it's fair to assume we won't see 99-3 relics in the new expansion: these items are then dead/stopped? If not, the step for 99-3 is just going to be even worse. -
09-21-2012, 02:22 AMDemon6324236
Thats because you don't want the special little showoff upgrades, you want meaningful upgrades. There will not be a 99-3 upgrade because -2 is only for showing off. To make a -3 would be stupid of SE seeing as 99% of players either will have no interest in making a 99-2 or will not be able to. Think about the massive level of greed needed to make one of these. Marrows are 15Mil or more each, that means 3.75 Billion Gil worth for a 99-2 Relic, Cinder are about 1Mil each, so thats only 3 Billion gil for a 99-2 Emp, and I don't know the price for a 99-2 Mythic because I don't often see the items to make it in Bazaars. In either case it comes down to 1 simple thing, they are not meant to be obtainable, or upgrades, they are meant to show off.
AF3+2 was not to show off it was the real power of the AF3 gear as a set, but its powers were sealed inside, thats why at 1st they are garbage, and later become some of the best gear in the game. Now if they made AF3+3 which was glowing but took you farming 800 seals & 600 of the jewels/cards/coins/stones, then yes it would become like 99-2s, they would just add a sphere effect of regen, or something worthless like that which is minor and pointless, but in the end allows you to show off. -
09-21-2012, 06:12 AMBabekeke
The afterglow aug on relics, empys and mythics is there purely as an incentive for people to not quit because they feel they've 'completed' the game. There will always be something more for them to achieve, for a couple of years more, at least.