Maybe a ton of threads exist on this by now.. I just discovered it.
My rating.. worst thing ever.
Essentially if your not with an entire pack of others, or a high lvl powerful blm you can't hope to get any points from this.
What was the idea here SE? I don't like what I see..
Campaign battle works just fine, this crap comes out later an its like the pre-alpha failure idea that might've spawned campaign.
So far.. only blm & war can achieve anything here. Oh an pld.
I give this system 2 thumbs down, not user friendly at all, worst idea ever.
Bastion - Epic Fail SE
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08-28-2012, 09:45 AMAurigaBastion - Epic Fail SE
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08-28-2012, 10:04 AMKaisha
Do Misareaux Coast. PDT set, sub RDM. Spam diaga to grab target hate before they near the mantello, and then kill what weaker targets you can, since you only get credit on the kills.
It's been this way for a year. -
08-28-2012, 10:14 AMMirage
We've tried to bring this to SE's attention several times, but apparently, they don't care.
At the very least, they should remove the once a day limit on the resistance quests now that so few people do it, then you can at least spam the trap/martelloHP/whateverthelastthingwas quests when there's just a few people around.
I'm not sure if that would be enough, though. -
08-28-2012, 10:22 AMReiterpallasch
Pretty much any jobs can kill any of the mobs with ease provided they're set up for it. The real issue with the system is those damn BLM NPCs that stand on the martello and constantly try to drag the mobs on top of it.
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08-28-2012, 10:36 AMMirage
Yeah, the issue is that the martello usually doesn't survive long enough for people to actually deal a significant amount of damage.
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08-28-2012, 11:16 AMDemon6324236Or better yet, do the same as Heroes has with Dom Notes, make NMs give credits too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
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08-28-2012, 03:48 PMCalatilla
BLU is actually a pretty good job for this, but as previously stated the main problem is the Martello that constantly sits at 1% HP and the bastion NPC`s that pull all the mobs towards it. One aoe from a random mob and its all over. If you want a quick fix for Bastion SE, give the Martello at least 50% HP so it stands half a chance of surviving 3 seconds.
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08-28-2012, 11:21 PMElexia
The point: SE figured players would actively work on the bastion status, you know cuz it's a community based effort.
The problem: SE keeps underestimating the fact most people who currently play XI doesn't give two shits about anyone but themselves. -
08-28-2012, 11:25 PMMirage
The system worked fine when there was always a lot of people doing the quests and fighting the mobs (meaning: when those abyssea zones were reasonably new), but now that more and more people have what they need from resistance credits, it will be more and more hard to find people to team up with.
The fact that you can't even do enough quests to keep the Martello HP at a decent level without half a dozen people constantly doing the quests doesn't make things easier either. Even if you wanted to do the quests to increase the HP by a significant amount, the game won't let you. -
08-28-2012, 11:26 PMCalatilla
Even so, there is no reason a martello should be at 1% HP 99.9% of the time. Even if you do the martello quests once a game day for a whole day you won't see a big improvement.
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08-29-2012, 12:13 AMMirage
Yes, that's why we shouldn't be limited to once per game day. Perhaps we'd get a more significant increase if we could do it 10 times each every game day.
And/or perhaps the HP should increase more per quest, based on how many times the quest had been done the last 24 hours. If almost no one (once or less per hour) has done the quest int he past 24 real life hours, the martello HP could increase 10 times more per quest than it currently does. The specifics aren't important, as long as a small group can still manage to increase it significantly. -
08-29-2012, 01:44 AMDaniel_HatcherOr SCH and 2-hour Embrava the martello and NPC's assuming that still works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisha
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08-29-2012, 07:42 AMGlamdringYou're doing it wrong...Quote:
Originally Posted by Auriga
Seriously, almost any job can make out in Bastion quite easily. Sub any job with an AoE. Make sure you have RR up. Use the AoE, stonega/banisga 1 work especially well. Follow with an AoE sleep and stand back, leaving everything to the NPCs. Your low damage AoE should have the hate taken away very quickly, but you are on the books as "contributing to the death" of anythng you hit. You'll get good XP and points. Run through the NPCs, staying in their midst and trying to sleep, bind or whatever anything that resisted your AoE sleep so the NPCs are more likely to pull it off you. Hopefully your RR will never be used.
Now, where you are partially right, they released Dominion Ops shortly after Bastion, so Bastion was overshadowed by the faster/higher/more leech friendly system in terms of XP/LP. Bastion still works just fine, and you'll need some points to get one of your AF3 pieces if you want it. -
08-29-2012, 11:16 AMkewitt
My hubby and I can get a few 1000 per round. Any 2 level 99 jobs. RR is a must!
The shield really need to auto re-spawn higher, in the current world of FFXI.
That or the Quests should bring the shield up to 75+% for next 2 runs.
That you, would do the quest to bring up the shields then get 2 runs out of it. -
08-29-2012, 12:07 PMRAISTQFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
More or less, I think it boils down to people just not understanding how it all works.
I've xp'ed jobs pre 75 in Vunkerl (first time I tried this, I took DRG/WHM from 65-66 one afternoon of farting around doing quests/ops) I've SOLOED Misereaux on NIN/DNC once on a whim just to prove a point (used ninjutsu and AOE from dagger to pull things to me early and keep them focused on me) and Vunkerl on SMN, BLM, DRK, MNK, WAR, SAM, DRG and even WHM FFS.
Get there early enough to pass some buffs out with something like /WHM, RDM, SCH, etc--even /SMN's Carby's Ruby can make a difference--and keep your defenses up (DRK/WHM or DRK/RDM is just fun as h3ll in there). When you can, run the ops to stuff a bag and buff up the defense/offense capabilities of the NPC's & structures. AOE the mobs close enough to the clone ward line, but far enough away from the martello to stop them from advancing on the martello and kite them out--it draws the NPC's out with you so they can't easily capture the martello.
Keep in mind it scales your points like with Campaign--every action you take adds to the points you get when something dies that you've tagged. If you are buffing NPC's and such before the fight starts, you get points even if you didn't tag the first mob that dies--this is how I exploited Bastion to level several jobs pre-75. Pass out the buffs beforehand, AOE pull and kite mobs away from the martello, fire off WS, JA's, and toss cures and such when you can, and if you die...get your butt back up ASAP so you don't miss the points when things die. -
08-29-2012, 12:39 PMCatmatoQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaisha
ftfy
1234567890 -
08-29-2012, 06:29 PMWaldrichNVM, KEEP DOING THINGS LIKE THIS SQUARE ENIX THE PLAYER BASE DESERVE TO SEE ONLY A FEW JOBS BEING ABLE TO DO SOMETHING. GO FOR IT SQUARE ENIX LIKE YOU DID WITH NYZUL ISLE ONLY DD's+SCH GO FOR IT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
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08-30-2012, 02:43 AMDaniel_HatcherPersonally do that myself, and they stay on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catmato
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08-30-2012, 04:10 AMLuvbunnyThat's pretty much their idea of "balanced" system lol. Too lazy to actually looking at things across the board, ignorant to player's pleas, and pretty much understaffed forever. That is the state of this game. Stale visions, mindless grind, luck based drops, anything to keep you hooked with very minimal effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldrich
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08-30-2012, 04:45 AMPlasticlegWould this include you and everyone who liked the post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
wutwut -
08-30-2012, 06:57 AMSharMarali
The martello should default to 25% HP with clone wards at 10% instead of the martello defaulting to 1% with no clone wards. Doing the quests should continue to raise the HP of the martello and the clone wards. This would be enough of a fix that people would have time to kill more during Bastion without making it a "guaranteed win."
The only real reason people typically participate in this activity is if they need resistance credits for leg pieces for jobs they just leveled or for OAT/DA weapon trials. It's frustrating when a big horde gets through and destroys the martello before you've had time to do much of anything.
Any job can participate, really, it's just a question of knowing how to play the job and do as much as you can in a short time frame. -
08-30-2012, 08:14 AMCymminaJust because you *can* do it doesn't mean it isn't broken and stupid. You are the one who is doing it wrong: againg and letting the NPCs kill it is the slowest way I can think of to farm Credits. You get more points the more damage you do to any given target, and you get nothing at all if the things you touch don't die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
I got enough credits for 20 pairs of legs and gladly stopped doing it. There are 2 things that make it soul destroyingly painful: Brainjack and the Martello starting with 1% HP. Brainjack effectively cuts melees from the list of jobs capable of efficiently farming Resistance Credits. The Martello's low HP makes sleep nuking from a good distance away the best way to farm Bastion. -
08-30-2012, 11:10 AMGlamdring
you were missing the point of the post apparently. It was that any job can succeed meaningfully at Bastion. It's simply not that hard. The hard part is knowing you could get points faster elsewhere and having the patience to stick with Bastion. It's a decent system, but since they upped the points in campaign, beseiged and of course Dom pages it is just totally overshadowed.
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08-30-2012, 05:15 PMMirage
It was a decent system when more than 5 people did it at the same time.
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08-30-2012, 06:00 PMhikodidn't know you can get bastion credit in campaign besieged dom pages....Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
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08-30-2012, 06:22 PMCalatillaTo my knowledge nobody has ever done Bastion purely for the exp. And you can't get bastion credits anywhere else so....Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
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08-30-2012, 06:39 PMDemon6324236
Honestly they don't have enough rewards for Bastion to be worth doing for more than AF3 Legs or the items for OAT/DA weapons. Xp is bad, no one uses the weapons, and its not worth the time for the slight bonus to curor buffs I think it gives if you do it in the zone. Overall its bad on rewards, thanks to its design you either have to AoE everything and attempt to solo it, or let the NPCs do the back bone of the work. Neither are impossible but both are kind of sad in my opinion on how they let this part slide. A fix to the problem would be to allow you to get points from NMs that die as they do with Dom Notes in Heroes areas, that wouldn't really fix Bastion, but it would at least let Bastion die and fall into the background where no one cares, or has to do it for anything meaningful.
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08-30-2012, 10:58 PMSarickQuote:
Originally Posted by Calatilla
Do the supply runs (It's a fame 1 QUEST not a resistance operation) in vunkerl inlet (SP), choose the heavy sack. The NPC name starts with D and is right beside the Atma NPC near flux 1. You just walk to the bastion spot on the map at flux 0 with gravity effect. When you get to the end talk to the finish NPC, use flux repeat.
Best jobs can increase movement and sneak. If you don't have apoc you can use a level 30 job with the in game barret that gives auto-reraise. <<< make sure you have some type of re-raise or a buddy to raise you.
About 13 runs will get your pants and max zone fame. It gives 1000+ crurers, 70 bastion credits and possible feet seals each run. Well worth it. -
08-31-2012, 12:17 AMPlasticlegbut here's the problem, the people posting in this thread don't want to get anything done, they want to whine and have things done for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarick
saddening. -
08-31-2012, 12:39 AMMirage
Pretty sure everyone in this thread wants to actually spend time killing monsters, rather than watching the monsters come in, then run away again 5 seconds later. Kind of different from what you're claiming they want.
But why am I answering you anyway? It is pretty obvious that you're not showing your face in this thread to actually discuss or come with suggestions, but to belittle people and act as if you're better than everyone else.
Saddening. -
08-31-2012, 12:45 AMPlasticlegdiaga + fanatics drink + dmg = pointsQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
good try at derailment though, on that last part.
/clap -
08-31-2012, 01:01 AMMirage
Doesn't stop the bastion NPCs to nuke from their position close to the martello, pulling hate off of some of the targets you diagaed, and suddenly one of those snatched a martello core and everything ends, even if you were doing really well against the mobs you actually did catch with diaga. Not to mention, the enemies don't always don't come in a crowd small enough to fit inside the diaga AoE range.
Sometimes you get lucky and get a few kills off before the martello gets hit, but many times it ends before you even get to use your second AoE WS after pulling them with diaga. This is what's frustrating. No one is complaining about having to actually do something to get resistance creds, what they want is for the assaults to not end as soon as they very often do, so that they get a better chance at actually doing something, rather than waiting for 20 minutes for the next assault to come, and hope you get luckier that time.
I've done diaga+fanatics+fellcleave several times myself. It just doesn't help much if the martello core is lost before you've gotten enough TP to do a second WS. Personally, I've gotten all the bastion creds I need, so a change to this won't affect me a great deal, but that doesn't mean I think the system is working well. -
08-31-2012, 04:38 AMSarick
I agree with Mirage plasticleg. Her point about the battle system being broken is fact. Why do you think I offered an alternative?
Before the guard update there where na-sayers that thought the skill up system was working just fine even though a large portion of monks and puppetmasters never came near capping guard. These people touting how easy it was to link/gather 30+ mobs and have a WHM or RDM heal them while they took a beating. It was so much work for such a little reward of maybe 0.1 to 0.5 an hour at higher levels.
This is what people are saying. The battle system is broken! It's not working in a fulfilling way. It's frustration that borders on idiocy. Sure you can use silly methods to get things done but SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY do you think the intentions of bastion where designed so that the average player was meant to find battle exploits etc. just to get a few measly points?
I honestly think the system was designed around how campaign battle was once successful. The added defend the cores broke it though. Why? It's simple in campaign battle the fortifications could withstand many many many times amounts of damage compared to the martellos in bastion. That allowed people the time to combat the enemies. In this setup it's a complete failure until they improve the between HP's of the martello.
People aren't asking for handouts they want a system that can work in an acceptable function. No sane player wants to waste time using a stupid system that requires exploiting the reward system just to get something. Players should be able to defend the forts without the use of silly techniques. Unless you have a better FIX for the broken bastion then stop trolling the people who have enough intellect to see whats broken.