Why Mythic making shouldn't get hit with the nerf bat.

Salvage updates are just around the corner (maybe...) and I just wanted to share my perspective on this update, and how I feel it should, or shouldn't, be carried out.

Alot of people who don't have a mythic have been begging for the adjustments to salvage to make Mythic building easier. Personally, I disagree with this. Nowhere in any of the offical posts from any SE employee or representative was it ever stated that Relic, Emp, and Mythic weapons were designed to be evenly difficult to obtain. I would even point to the overlapping of the afterglow (Mythic > Relic> Emp) as proof that Mythic is ment to be a much more difficult process.

People say it's too time consuming, and that the game should require skill, not time. But this isn't an arcade game or old fashion side scrolling metriod. This isn't even a MMO like WoW where you can dodge attacks with the jump button and run freely while attacking your target, it's designed differently. This game does require time. Emps, Relics and Mythics especially, aren't really a reward for skill. They are a reward for dedication. And the time taken to obtain the alexandrites doesn't need to be lowered so that the casual Joe who plays 3 times a week and holds a 10 hour a day job can get the weapon. It's ment for the hardcore people who play for 4+ hours a day; and don't pretend like those people don't exist.

The game is already quickly becoming endgame only, as everyone caps out their jobs in less then a week by leeching in abyssea. So please let SE reward the endgamers who play hardcore with a little something extra over their casual counterparts. Thanks. :)

I disagree. Same as with Heavy Metal Plates there is a shortage of these for how many you need and now many want them. New Salvage might be good, and might be terrible, we don't know. Heavy Metal has alot of people after it, even if money is easy for you to get, the supply of how many are around you can buy are the true problem.
Alexs suffer this same problem, buying them might not be a problem for some people, but the supply of how many there are to buy is. Actually this is worse, unlike Dyna where 1 person can go solo and get some, all forms of getting Alexs require 3 people to at least go in, which creates a problem with supply. The limit is 1 time a day at best, but you also need to do an assault as well to get the points to spend. Overall this requires to much when you also add all of the background things that need be done, it adds up, and thats why people complain, because it asks for alot before Alex, then Alex is worse than Dyna or Abyssea by far.

disagree too.

there is not enough alexandrite in the game, and nobody wants to get it themselves.

the game isn't fast approaching endgame. it has been at endgame for the last 7 years. and endgame is for everyone. in the past the model for relic weapons was a degree of skill and dedication, but they've let that slide out the window with relic changes and empyreans.

if you want to be a snowflake for your "hardcore dedication", get your lv99+ relic/mythic/empyrean and get with the times.
old endgame is continually being phased out by new endgame. old hardcore relic/mythic/empyrean is nothing, afterglow onry.

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Originally Posted by Arciel

disagree too.

there is not enough alexandrite in the game, and nobody wants to get it themselves.

the game isn't fast approaching endgame. it has been at endgame for the last 7 years. and endgame is for everyone. in the past the model for relic weapons was a degree of skill and dedication, but they've let that slide out the window with relic changes and empyreans.

if you want to be a snowflake for your "hardcore dedication", get your lv99+ relic/mythic/empyrean and get with the times.
old endgame is continually being phased out by new endgame. old hardcore relic/mythic/empyrean is nothing, afterglow onry.

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Afterglow costs 4x as much in some cases as even a current Mythic does. That's a little more time consuming then even I wish things to be... lol 500M is a resonably farmable amount for an endgamer in this economy. 1.5 billion gil for 150 scoricas is not. :x

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Originally Posted by Myo

I have a mythic through the system in place, please don't nerf it because i'll have wasted over half a year of my life for nothing.

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sorry, that's all i could read.

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Originally Posted by Myo

Afterglow costs 4x as much in some cases as even a current Mythic does. That's a little more time consuming then even I wish things to be... lol 500M is a resonably farmable amount for an endgamer in this economy. 1.5 billion gil for 150 scoricas is not. :x

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If it were only a matter of money that would be one thing, but the supply is different. Currently we have low supply of Alexs, if the supply goes up chances are the price will go down, if price goes down it becomes easier. However if it still has a low supply we still have a problem, no matter how you look at it, this is bad.

DISAGREE! Entirely. But at least I got a good laugh this morning.

Great joke OP, would read again. I especially liked this part:

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And the time taken to obtain the alexandrites doesn't need to be lowered so that the casual Joe who plays 3 times a week and holds a 10 hour a day job can get the weapon. It's ment for the hardcore people who play for 4+ hours a day; and don't pretend like those people don't exist.

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Many luls to you sir. /tophat.

Alexandrite isn't really like heroin in the middle of a large city, expensive but readily available. Alexandrite is more like heroin in rural Alabama, good luck finding enough of it to do the job even if you have enough money to buy a mountain of the stuff and ski down it.

I doubt the price will go down even if more Alexandrite hits the market, because that would just give all the folks who are half-way there and serious about it a chance to finally finish with the money they've been saving up.

Also, meant.

I have to disagree as well, I have no issue with the amount of Alex required for the weapon. The issue is the supply of Alex, very few people do Salvage anymore as the gear is no longer as good as it used to be. Also the supply of Alex that has been introduced from Nyzul Isle Uncharted has made much of a difference.
Hopefully when the dev team look at Salvage/Assualt they will consider increasing the amount of Alex that drops and also hopefully remove the 3-man minimum to enter.

I'm not asking for a nerf, but I think these few things could help.

1. Increase the Alex supply:
   1. Original Boss Chariots, make their pouch 100%
   2. Increase the amount of alex obtained from cotton pouches.
   3. NeoSalvage Boss Chariots on every floor, or floors entirely full of triple gears that drop 1-4 alex, or floors entirely full of boss chariots.
   4. Every piece of Archaic Machinery in Salvage changed to always drop 1 alex, and up to 4 max
2. Remove Assault/Salvage minimum entry limit of 3 characters.

People have already touched on the main problem with the mythic process. It really IS the supply.

Since so many people want a mythic now, alexandrites are so hard to find nowadays that hardly ANYBODY can even find enough to make a mythic. I've wanted Ryunohige for a long time and I'm having trouble even finding these gems. Since Abyssea first came out two years ago, I doubt I've even SEEN 10,000 alexandrites in all the bazaars I've checked, lot alone 30,000.

Edit: And to those that say "Salvage it all the way":

If you can get 150 gems, if you evenly distribute it amongst three people, that's 50 each. That's 600 straight days of doing Salvage if you're lucky. Not to mention the other requirements (which really pale in comparison, but are not trivial).

I don't know what server you guys are on, but on Quetz there are a ton of people who do salvage and sell the alex just for money puposes. I finished my mythic in the last 6 months, didn't have a supply problem. They aren't in the bazaar of every tom, dick and harry, like dynamis currency. But they're there.

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Originally Posted by Myo

I don't know what server you guys are on, but on Quetz there are a ton of people who do salvage and sell the alex just for money puposes. I finished my mythic in the last 6 months, didn't have a supply problem. They aren't in the bazaar of every tom, dick and harry, like dynamis currency. But they're there.

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Well on Phoenix we have 3 common names I see shouting to buy them every day for 20k, from what I have seen and heard, the supply is a problem where money is not, 1 of the people even started trading people a marrow for about half its worth in Alexs to get people to do Salvage and increase supply of them.

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Quote Originally Posted by Myo View Post
I have a mythic through the system in place, please don't nerf it because i'll have wasted over half a year of my life for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

sorry, that's all i could read.

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Originally Posted by Myo

I don't know what server you guys are on, but on Quetz there are a ton of people who do salvage and sell the alex just for money puposes. I finished my mythic in the last 6 months, didn't have a supply problem. They aren't in the bazaar of every tom, dick and harry, like dynamis currency. But they're there.

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Zerich, I think you called it there.

While I agree with the OP to some extent I dont feel mythic obtainment is at its current pace acceptable. Even though I will probably finish my mythic before any sort of change comes out (looking at finishing in the next 3-5 weeks depending on luck) I am in full support of minor changes to how alexandrites come into the game. Boss pouches being made 100% or simply allowing more people to solo salvage are great ideas that wont break the game but should increase supply enough to at least keep a mythic popping up here and there every month instead of 1 mythic per server popping up every time the planets align. I think if the supply is doubled it wont ruin the current prices for farmings but will make it so more people can actually have the alexandrites to purchase (because lolgil these days).

As for the other requirements... get over it. they are easy assaults can be done with 3 EASILY and I am talking 3 pearl bsts throwing dippers at crap. ein is easy and odin can be spammed so that it takes 1/2 the time it used to to get the ichor and the nyzul tokens are a joke too considering with 3 competent players you can do 15 floor hops (I do 10 2 boxing and dcing a 3rd character at entry) so grab 2 others wanting to do mythics do 15-25 floor hops for 6-10k tokens a run. These requirements should be laughed at yes there is tag requirements but really if you were taking mythic seriously for years you would have already cleared the assaults (I did mine back at 75 long after everyone wanted to do captain) and for the new people coming in 100 tags is annoying but its going to take time bare with it and you will push through while clearing the rest of the stuff.

My problem with Mythic that I have is supply/demand and the number of Alexs in general required. Due to short supply prices are upto 20k each on my server, 600Mil for a weapon. The number of Alexs seems to high imo due to the other work around it. I am not saying the work is to hard or to much, but simply that with everything else you must do for a weapon I would think you should need less of the currency type for a weapon than for one of those which require no prerequisites.

Relic is alot of non-R/EX items(Roughly 18,000) able to be traded & bazaared, and some wait times.

Emp is a few camped lottery spawn NMs, a few VNMs, and R/EX items(100 for form with WS/Aftermath) where 1 of which will always drop on a kill of the NM which drops it.

Mythic you must obtain the rank of Captain, complete Nyzul Isle, kill each of the 3 Beastkings, kill the 4 bosses of Salvage, kill Odin in Einherjar, obtain 100,000 Therion Ichor, 150,000 Tokens, record a win for every assault, obtain 30,000 Alexandrite, non-R/EX items, able to be traded & bazaared. 1 item from each of the T3 ZNMs, and finally you must win a fight involving you using the weapon skill for the weapon and unlocking its aftermath.

I think it is safe to say so far as what is needed (especially when the average player market prices for Alex are about 3 times that of the price of Ancient Currency) that Mythic is by far the most time taking, and difficult, of the 3, and is far unbalanced as such.

Edit:To clarify, I am not saying I want the prereqs removed, quite the opposite, I like them, they make Mythic obtaining unique. The amount of "currency" however seems much to high due to the fact of how much work there is besides that single part, especially when weapons with much less work involved in the background also require less currency & are also less expensive on the market to buy.

Mythics have been out for how many years now and people are just now complaining lol?

Regardless I feel the ONLY thing that needs to be changed about mythic obtainment is the alex supply, the requirements themselves don't need to be changed, I'm a firm believer an increase in alex massively will fix the complaints,(an aht urghan style instance dyna like thing that dropped alex would be sexy..@30,000 alex needed per weapon this wouldn't be a bad idea...) the other reqs make the need to do einherjar and nyzul and assaults ect which are fun to do as well.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

Mythics have been out for how many years now and people are just now complaining lol?

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People have been a long time I think.

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Regardless I feel the ONLY thing that needs to be changed about mythic obtainment is the alex supply, the requirements themselves don't need to be changed, I'm a firm believer an increase in alex massively will fix the complaints,(an aht urghan style instance dyna like thing that dropped alex would be sexy..@30,000 alex needed per weapon this wouldn't be a bad idea...) the other reqs make the need to do einherjar and nyzul and assaults ect which are fun to do as well.

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I agree something like this would be nice, any increase in supply would be, the problem is though when you think about it, the supply depends on the popularity of events they come from. NNI drops few, Salvage is old, and with how events have been popping up dead on arrival as of late, Neo-Salvage does not seem to have much of a chance...

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Originally Posted by Myo

Nowhere in any of the offical posts from any SE employee or representative was it ever stated that Relic, Emp, and Mythic weapons were designed to be evenly difficult to obtain.

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You don't want to go with that argument. The official posts from SE were all about mythics being the easier of the 2 (of course, empyrean wasn't out then) to obtain.

But even before the dynamis change it wasn't even close to being true.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

You don't want to go with that argument. The official posts from SE were all about mythics being the easier of the 2 (of course, empyrean wasn't out then) to obtain.

But even before the dynamis change it wasn't even close to being true.

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I was thinking they said that, didn't feel like looking though to back up the point.

Well, I knew ahead of time my opinion would be beat to a pulp on these forums. But I just wanted the moderators to see this and maybe pass along to the Dev's the fact that some people do appreciate the challenge, and/or grind required to obtain certain items. The whole population isn't composed of players who want everything handed to them. There are a few of us who like to put in some time to get items that not everyone else can get.

Haters gonna hate, etc. :P

If you want a challenge make an afterglow, there's your challenge

Remember when they lowered the amount of XP required to hit 75? Not many people remember it, but they cut out a huge chunk of XP. A lot of 75's were upset. After all it cheapens what it means to be 75 right? But if you actually thought about it, you realize, you know I might want to level another 75 one day. I mean, I ~love~ RDM and I'm sure it'll always be the best job but I might want to level PLD too and be a god.

Making a mythic weapon is certainly a big accomplishment. And yeah, if they said okay you only need 5k alex now or if they increased Salvage alex drops by a factor of 20, I'd probably be upset for a 5-10 minutes. It cheapens your accomplishment, no doubt about it. But it also means you can go ahead and make another one and it'll be easier. I mean, I love my Carnwenhan but a Ryunohige sure would be swell. After already climbing the mountain once, the path to another mythic looks extremely daunting. But if they adjust it, I might be willing to make the trek again.

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Originally Posted by Myo

Well, I knew ahead of time my opinion would be beat to a pulp on these forums. But I just wanted the moderators to see this and maybe pass along to the Dev's the fact that some people do appreciate the challenge, and/or grind required to obtain certain items. The whole population isn't composed of players who want everything handed to them. There are a few of us who like to put in some time to get items that not everyone else can get.

Haters gonna hate, etc. :P

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It's not beating you to a pulp Myo. The negative thing in this is the mentality that only people who sink most of their life have a bat's chance in hell to receive (or even have a chance at) the shiny. The general entitlement and stubbornness that you're boasting here is what we are beating to a pulp.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

It's not beating you to a pulp Myo. The negative thing in this is the mentality that only people who sink most of their life have a bat's chance in hell to receive (or even have a chance at) the shiny. The general entitlement and stubbornness that you're boasting here is what we are beating to a pulp.

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This is the main reason I don't have any Mythic, Relic or Empyrean. I'd like to enjoy the game, I already have a job.

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Originally Posted by Myo

Haters gonna hate, etc. :P

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It's not haters, your argument's just full of holes.