Pianissimo and Tenuto

I find myself in situations where I need to Pianissimo Ballads on myself while AoEing other songs onto other party members. The problems I've been having are that Victory blocks the second Pianissimo'd Ballad if I sing it within a minute or so after, and that Tenuto doesn't stack with Pianissimo.

Is there any way that Pianissimo could have an automatic Tenuto effect, where the song has to take effect regardless of song length? Better yet, could I give other players a Tenuto'd Pianissimo? Say one person in my party wants Minuets or Mambo and the rest want Marches, I could start with Minuet, then hit everyone with Marches and keep the Minuet player with Minuet.

Hmm I left the game for a while and I do notice the post date but I still want to comment soo..

Why would Pianissimo need to have the effect?

Like first you Tenuto Ballad ( who cares who it hits=/ ) so now you have ballad on your self and maybe others but the others would not matter.

Then you cast the song most want ( like say 3 people want two marches) Then you just Pianissimo the single songs.

Since you Tenuto ballad that is the song you still have on.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Hmm I left the game for a while and I do notice the post date but I still want to comment soo..

Why would Pianissimo need to have the effect?

Like first you Tenuto Ballad ( who cares who it hits=/ ) so now you have ballad on your self and maybe others but the others would not matter.

Then you cast the song most want ( like say 3 people want two marches) Then you just Pianissimo the single songs.

Since you Tenuto ballad that is the song you still have on.

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If Tenuto had the Pianissimo effect, you'd know for certain that the target has the songs you're singing on them. The log might say a target receives a song, but it doesn't say what song it overrides. Let me give you a few examples.

- If you're sporting the Minuet +3 and Ballad +1 instruments and you sing Victory and Minuet V, you'll only end up with one ballad after you pianissimo Ballad II and III on yourself because Minuet blocks it.

- I'd run into the problem of throwing out two Victories and a Minuet, then Pianissimo Ballads II and III and finding I or the WHM only have one Ballad on. I couldn't use the +1 Ballad instrument with Tenuto without having to run 20 yalms away from if I wanted Ballad II. If the WHM runs in to boost or barspell and gets hit with Minuet, they are stuck with it for a minute instead of having a more useful song.

- If a COR rolls while you sing Minuet, you might need a matching Etude + instrument to beat the Minuet back if they want Quick/Swift Etudes.

There are fixes. You could settle with hitting everyone with ballad when you refreshed their songs, but that fix would only apply to yourself. Relic horn fixes the problem too, but I think that's a big price to pay to fix something like this.

Are you sure that the instruments are the reason, and it's not because of having marcato'd or troubador'd the original song? I've never noticed not receiving an effect when I used a +2 intrument for a march/minuet then casting ballad. Also, if you are experiencing this problem, can't you just cancel the first song(s) before casting on yourself? I can't say I've ever tried to cancel a song, but I imagine it's possible.

Can't cancel songs no.

What I think is happening as an example.

Cast March1 duration 3mins
Cast march2 duration 3mins
Cast Ballad1 Duration 2mins. (Replaces March1 because March1 has lowest duration remaining)
Cast Ballad2 Duration 2mins. (Replaces Ballad1 because Ballad1 has lowest duration remaining)

Easy solutions are wait longer to do your first ballad or get G.horn (if that counts as easy)

I have this problem sometimes too if I do SV troubadour scherzo. (4x duration scherzo)

I found another situation for Tenuto tonight that I don't like.

In dynamis when I have 2 other dd I use 2x march and tenuto 2x ballad on myself. BUT in this case reraise had worn and there was a bad pull. So I put up hymnus, only after I died did I notice it had no effect. I personally would like to see certain songs like hymnus overwrite ANY song regardless if you used tenuto or not. The short duration of hymnus only seems to be worth it for an EMERGENCY reraise.

SE Please change hymnus to overwrite any song, regardless if you have used Tenuto or not.

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Originally Posted by Reain

Can't cancel songs no.

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Then 1 easy fix, is allow songs to be cancellable. Seems odd that they aren't anyway!

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Then 1 easy fix, is allow songs to be cancellable. Seems odd that they aren't anyway!

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I'm guessing it's something stupid like all songs have the same rules so if buffs were able to be canceled so could song debuffs cast on you.

Hmmm, quite possibly. But that is another thing I always found annoyed me. If you're in a pt with a BRD, and you fight a BRD mob, you don't know if you have requiem/threnody/elegy on you, or if it's a buff, without hovering over the icon to check. Can't we get a different coloured icon for buffs/enfeebles on songs? (and while you're at it, make the buffs cancellable!).

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Hmmm, quite possibly. But that is another thing I always found annoyed me. If you're in a pt with a BRD, and you fight a BRD mob, you don't know if you have requiem/threnody/elegy on you, or if it's a buff, without hovering over the icon to check. Can't we get a different coloured icon for buffs/enfeebles on songs? (and while you're at it, make the buffs cancellable!).

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Sad thing is BRD buffs and debuffs all have different icon slots already they just use the same icon for all of them.

Hello!

The core issue here is overwriting songs and there are two factors at play:

1. Depending on what instruments you use there are differences in effects for songs, and songs that are cast later will be shorter.
2. It’s not possible to overwrite songs that have effect durations of 120 seconds or more.

The former factor is something that players have control over via equipment, so we prefer to leave this as it is; since there are times that you will not want songs with weaker effects to take priority.

On the other hand, the latter is something that we would like to adjust and are currently looking into how we can make it so songs with an effect duration of 120 seconds or more can be overwritten. We believe that Tenuto and other elements are a contributing factor to this issue and would like some time to look into this.

On a slightly different note, there was a request to make it easier to distinguish songs that have worn off via the chat log, since in cases when similar songs (i.e. Minuet IV and V) are both on a party member and one of them is removed by Dispel or other means, it’s difficult to discern which of the two was removed. We agree that this would definitely be beneficial and is something that we would like to address if possible; however, it would require the development team to redo the enhancing statuses for each song and level, readjust the stats one by one, and change the song system significantly, so unfortunately it would be extremely difficult to do right away.

We will keep you posted when we receive some new information about the overwriting issue.

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Originally Posted by Camate

1. It’s not possible to overwrite songs that have effect durations of 120 seconds or more.

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You mean songs that will wear off in more than 120s probably. You can definatly overwrite, say, 2xmarch sung with Daurdabla, by 2xmarch sung with Gjallarnorm, but you cannot do so until roughly 1min10s have passed.

Whats annoying is than you cannot sing 2xmarch 2xminuet with daurdaba, then troubadour and overwrite with 2xmarch 2xminuet with Gjallarhorn for example. EIther you wait 1mn10s or you just initially sing 4 random songs that are neither marches nor minuet, then you can overwrite immediately.

It's also annoying to not being able to overwrite troubadour/nightingale'd songs in case you sung the wrong one.

Would it be so bad if they just changed the over-write logic so that the song that gets overwritten is the one that is the "oldest"? This whole business of song duration affecting which song is over written and when is needlessly confusing. If it helps, add a JA so that the next song cannot be overwritten by anything other than a recast of the same song (a party version of Tenuto).

I can guess SE's response would be along the lines that equipment can affect the duration of song and provide the player with options to control the overwrite logic. That would be a cop out though because I'm sure that nobody uses song duration enhancing equipment to affect over write. They only get frustrated trying to figure it out and work around it.

Any chance of changing Soul Voice's effect on Scherzo from doubles duration to allowing it to mitigate against multi-hit attacks that deal over 75% HP?

It's kinda depressing to put it up then watch my DD get one shotted in legion anyway. Plus with 4x duration (SV & Troubadour) there's no overwriting it with something else for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

I can guess SE's response would be along the lines that equipment can affect the duration of song and provide the player with options to control the overwrite logic. That would be a cop out though because I'm sure that nobody uses song duration enhancing equipment to affect over write. They only get frustrated trying to figure it out and work around it.

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In a way we do but we are stuck with ballad +1 instrument when we have +3 for other songs. But I do hate singing the wrong song with troubadour/nightingale it is like now what while hard to properly buff everyone =/

For the rep.... Why are all songs the same icion? you changed SCH icons, the three eye icion and so on. Why was this neglected? I am pretty sure it was a very old complaint. I do not like how Camate missed responding to that when Babekeke/Zagen brought it up? I seen SS of people using the 'forbidden' windower with different color icons for the songs. I find it funny something is forbidden that people can easily program but SE says it is not possible for them to do.