Ideas to improve Neo Nyzul

This event is...well dead on my server. I'm pretty sure it's the same everywhere else, rather than complain more about it I thought it might be a good idea to make a post where players could suggest ideas for "fixing" it and boosting it's popularity.

Probably have to keep in mind that the rarity of the final floor drops needs to be kept as such because they don't want everyone to be able to get them (may not agree with this, but it appears to be how they want it now and I don't think they will budge from that).

To be really good at this event right now players have to abuse cheats (flee bots, tools to see through walls, tools to walk through walls) and that is just not right at all.

Things that put me off this event personally are:

Rewards being exact copies of old Nyzul gear (new armor designs would of been nice). This was one of the reasons VW was a partial success, sad to say but still it's the truth.

No save feature, at the very least I think there should be a save feature for the higher floors (if you get to 80, you should be able to save at 80, maybe make it a requirement that everyone has to have that 80 save to be able to enter there and not just 1 as it used to be).

Time limit is too low, maybe 45 mins if you enter from floor 1? 25-30 mins if you enter at an 80 save maybe?

Maybe the higher tier floor drops being nerfed somewhat and allowing them to be upgraded to what they are now via large numbers of tokens or Alexandrites (inc mythic upgraders raging), to keep them rare.

Ability to buy final stage upgrade items for relic/mythic/emps with large numbers of tokens (I know, I know but it's worth a shot).

More uses for tokens.

I have very limited knowledge of this event because I've more or less not bothered with it, I'm sure players that have done it more can offer better ideas.

nyzul is congested, they need to force an hour wait between runs

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Originally Posted by Brolic

nyzul is congested, they need to force an hour wait between runs

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They already have the 1 ticket per day road block in effect but it's not enough.

What they really need to do is make it so that once you confirm entry, the run doesn't begin until one hour later.

That way you have to wait an hour before every run. No more free runs for those people that use their tickets every day. That will help stop all this crazy congestion.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

They already have the 1 ticket per day road block in effect but it's not enough.

What they really need to do is make it so that once you confirm entry, the run doesn't begin until one hour later.

That way you have to wait an hour before every run. No more free runs for those people that use their tickets every day. That will help stop all this crazy congestion.

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i love it, hire this man S.E... NOW

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

They already have the 1 ticket per day road block in effect but it's not enough.

What they really need to do is make it so that once you confirm entry, the run doesn't begin until one hour later.

That way you have to wait an hour before every run. No more free runs for those people that use their tickets every day. That will help stop all this crazy congestion.

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Best post all morning.

But really, they need to completely redesign the event or give you 45 minutes. Anything else just isn't going to cut it. It's not like the gear is so super amazing it needs to be super super rare to preserve balance. Some of it is slightly better then whats available, and most of it is useless sidegrades/inferior.

I'd vote for the 45 minute time limit. I have not tried this event yet, primarily because of the opinions on this forum. I wouldn't mind collecting the new gear sets as a side project, but I'd rather not get started on something that's gonna be a huge frustration.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I thought it might be a good idea to make a post where players could suggest ideas

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This is the type of thread I like :)

One me and my friends were discussing, was - I've noticed when you exit a floor, your progress is saved to the runic disc, though this appears to have no use at the moment.

A nice touch would be, the next time you enter - your "climbing" up until that specific saved floor has a probability (RNG) of being faster (ie, greater floor leaps), limitations would be only allowed saving on multiples of 5 or 10, and if you fail to save, you lose any previous save, so for example:

On your first run of the night, you exit and save at floor 55, this is saved to the runic disc.

The second run of the night, you climb from 1-55 with a much higher chance of getting leaps of 7-9 floors (ie, 75% increased chance), once you reach 55 or surpass 55, it becomes completely random from 2-9 again.

Once you hit floor 100, or surpass it back to 1, this save resets.

It doesn't necessarily make it easier or a permanent boost, but it'll give you a better chance of hitting floor 100 at the cost of 2-3 tags.

The event promotes(requires) 3rd party tools and exploits.

Terrible design and no progression system.

Neo Nyzul was dead upon arrival.

Might as well add the "get TE from boss" idea to this thread. Even a 5 minute TE from each boss would help out a bit but not make the event a pushover which seems to be their concern.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Might as well add the "get TE from boss" idea to this thread. Even a 5 minute TE from each boss would help out a bit but not make the event a pushover which seems to be their concern.

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I think a "chance of 5 min TE from boss" would be a better proposal, they like RNG ;-)

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Might as well add the "get TE from boss" idea to this thread. Even a 5 minute TE from each boss would help out a bit but not make the event a pushover which seems to be their concern.

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+1.

A lot of the ideas suggested in the various Neo Nyzul threads would make the event way too easy, to be frank. A 45 minute time limit off the bat would be absolutely ridiculous, and you'd go from "No one can hit 100" to "Everyone with half a brain can hit 100 even with a couple mules".

Likewise, anything that allows saving is broken from the get-go. It is absolutely not hard to hit floor 50 in one no-boss run even with a party of full aurore mules. Getting to 100 becomes the only floor worth shooting for for anyone, a sure sign that the event is, again, way too easy.

This event is only slightly harder than it should be, in my opinion. It is too hard/random, but at the same time applying huge, major, premise-changing adjustments to it will make it far too easy to be any fun.

Ideally, 100 should be consistently reachable by a solid, high-end group 60-80% of the time. The event should scale in such a way that low-tier groups, or disorganized groups will have to content themselves with floors 20 and 40 the majority of the time. The idea is to make the event hard enough that high-end players have a use for all those 0.5-1%~ efficiency increases they've been grinding out for years, and are unable to just leave bot/afk-mules laying around, while not too hard that even an ideal group can consistently fail the majority of the time due to jump luck.

Frankly, if you and your group aren't as good as the top-tier, you shouldn't be hitting Floors 80-100. For anyone still wearing a single piece of Aurore or Perle, even floor 20-40 items can be an upgrade. There is no point in getting better if everyone is good enough. There is no point in success when everyone gets a medal. If you want a medal, and you're unable to get one, improve yourself and your group until you can.

5 minute TEs on boss floors will potentially make it easier for top-tier groups to hit floor 100 without making things piss-easy for low-tier groups (I mean, if you spend more than 5 minutes on the boss then you're losing net time).

Secondary objectives per-floor was something I mentioned in the other thread and I think would work out fairly well. Assign a small pool of player buffs (Regen+Refresh, Regain, 30 second TE, All Stats+) as the potential rewards for completing a secondary objective, but inform the player which reward coincides with which objective at the Rune. That way players are able to make the tactical decision whether or not to pursue any particular secondary objective on a per-floor basis.

Example text from the Rune would look like:
"Welcome to floor 47. Primary Objective: Kill specified enemy. Secondary Objective: Avoid detection. Secondary Reward: Regain."

In regards to temp items: A 2-minute lobby area for temps would be ideal, similar to the Legion lobby. This way, players will be able to get their temps without cutting into the event's primary time limit - allowing for more strategic use of items.

This is all minor stuff, because that's all the event really needs - Minor changes. Tweaks. The devs implemented this on the test server with cheat codes enabled, and thus we were unable to give them proper feedback on event difficulty. I get that they want this event to be hard. I want it to be hard, too. But I don't want it to be impossible, or improbable enough to be considered impossible.

Luck in general is fine. Luck makes things interesting, dynamic, unique. But 1% odds are stupid. The players are sick of them. It's not fun any more. It was never really fun to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Ideally, 100 should be consistently reachable by a solid, high-end group 60-80% of the time. The event should scale in such a way that low-tier groups, or disorganized groups will have to content themselves with floors 20 and 40 the majority of the time. The idea is to make the event hard enough that high-end players have a use for all those 0.5-1%~ efficiency increases they've been grinding out for years, and are unable to just leave bot/afk-mules laying around, while not too hard that even an ideal group can consistently fail the majority of the time due to jump luck.

Frankly, if you and your group aren't as good as the top-tier, you shouldn't be hitting Floors 80-100. For anyone still wearing a single piece of Aurore or Perle, even floor 20-40 items can be an upgrade. There is no point in getting better if everyone is good enough. There is no point in success when everyone gets a medal. If you want a medal, and you're unable to get one, improve yourself and your group until you can.

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This is why they need a point system, and not a bunch of lottery crap. Making it so hard that XYZ pieces of gear are required in order to ever be good enough to reach floor 100 makes it so that people who haven't got XYZ are automatically excluded.

People who have gear that allows them to perform 2.37% better should be getting through content 2.37% faster. They shouldn't be getting to do content that people who perform 2.37% worse can't do at all.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

This is why they need a point system, and not a bunch of lottery crap. Making it so hard that XYZ pieces of gear are required in order to ever be good enough to reach floor 100 makes it so that people who haven't got XYZ are automatically excluded.

People who have gear that allows them to perform 2.37% better should be getting through content 2.37% faster. They shouldn't be getting to do content that people who perform 2.37% worse can't do at all.

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They're not excluded. They're just reaping less powerful rewards. Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

Any event that requires you to hack (fillmode, clipper, speed hacking) is just poor content over all.

Pfft,

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Regain_Feather

I guess I can't really forget about how I do strongly believe in content for players with top tier gear. It's utterly pointless to obtain if it does not propel you to new heights(meaning doing content you could not previously do, which is why I like Abyssea, there is a very clear difference between a newbie Abyssea character and a veteran character that has the gear and atmas and buffs) So I support the idea that top tiered players should be making it to floor 100 on their own accord. SE could go about things better than leaving that jump to 100 as pure chance. Top players should reach floor 100 consistently, not when the system decides to gift you with access. Any fixes to the system will inevitably lead to lower tier groups getting further in nyzul but whatever, floor 100 gear is still #1 and they ain't gonna see it.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

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I'm 102.4% sure that people entering Neo Nyzul are going in to attempt to clear the content. Maybe if the top tier gear were drops from any boss or found in chests on any level you'd have people who didn't care, but I think most everyone enters to clear it.

I agree with your statement about content requiring 'the best' or at least a strong, organized group to do well. The word 'challenge' however, doesn't quite fit an event where being lucky in terms of which type of floor you get, which mob type is required for that floor and the luck you have with moving up ??? levels.

Remove the luck if you want Neo NI to be skill-based or vice versa. An average group could get lucky enough to advance to floor 80 while a geared, 'skilled' and coordinated group could get shafted by floor types and the RNG of lamping for ???.

Somewhat related: I can't help but get the feeling that SE doesn't really grasp the concept of 'progression'.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

They're not excluded. They're just reaping less powerful rewards. Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

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Thats all well and good but at this point in the games life you can't push content that only offers 1 to 2% gain for a 100% more effort. It would be one thing if the 60, 80, and 100 gear far better then what we already have but its simply not.

Have each boss drop a R/EX ticket that will warp a party from floor 1 to boss floor+1. We now have floor progression so long as we defeat the bosses as well as the inability to just spam the boss floors. Less geared/skilled/cooperative groups can possibly progress 20 floors at a time to eventually reach floor 100 while better groups can work faster to reach floor 100 in fewer runs. As an added twist, the game can still screw us if we miss boss floors; using a floor 61 ticket, overshoot floor 80 either have to try to reach floor 100 or give up. Either way you've lost the ticket and have to start from the bottom again.

SE is happy because the RNG will mess players up on the floor progression (starting at floor 81 and getting skips of 3 floors at a time with giant kill all rooms of slimes while avoiding gear detection with black magic pathos and running out of time on floor 96). Lesser skilled groups will be happy to get their progression, but will complain how it gets increasingly harder to get people to help due to others being finished with it and never wanting to do it again with the gimps. And the well skilled players will be happy because they will be able to rapidly put the whole unpleasant business behind them, but will be complaining about lack of content and all the gimp S.O.B.s who, we are assured, couldn't find their own buttocks with both hands, a map, and 3 friends with flashlights still shouting for help with something a can of tuna could accomplish.

Then we turn back to Voidwatch, which everyone agrees would be good content if only the miners and lumberjacks from the other dimension would stop trying to invade our world. Then eyes turn to Legion, as we wonder why we are apparently murdering weavers and grocers due to the unnatural amount of thread and fresh produce being collected there.

btw JP seem to do this event a lot lol. 50 people in nyzul during the JP prime so I wouldn't say it's dead (yet).

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Originally Posted by Monchat

btw JP seem to do this event a lot lol. 50 people in nyzul during the JP prime so I wouldn't say it's dead (yet).

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They probably figured out the tricks while we were complaining.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

btw JP seem to do this event a lot lol. 50 people in nyzul during the JP prime so I wouldn't say it's dead (yet).

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On phoexin 7pm Tokyo 2 bst in nyzul still lol.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

They probably figured out the tricks while we were complaining.

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Tricks such as the best method for reaching Floor 6?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

They're not excluded. They're just reaping less powerful rewards. Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

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I wouldn't have any problem with your statement here if not for the fact that WITHOUT the use for 3rd party tools, those ppl that reported they were able to reach floor 100 would not have made it. So by making the game a lot easier by using tools, what 'Challenge' is there really? It also put a big question mark next to your claim of being 'BEST'. Is the group still the 'best' if they are only able to archive something through the use of tools? Show me someone that reached 100 without the use of any 3rd party tools and I'll STFU.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Thats all well and good but at this point in the games life you can't push content that only offers 1 to 2% gain for a 100% more effort. It would be one thing if the 60, 80, and 100 gear far better then what we already have but its simply not.

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Far better than who already has?

The people with gear that outclasses Nyzul +2/+3 are the ones who are probably capable of hitting Floor 100 in the first place.

The people who really should be aiming for floor 20-60 are the ones whose gear would almost certainly still see improvements from pieces on those floors.

I think, in general, people are just completely skimming over my other post in this thread where I do address the luck issue and just chose to focus on one response. I don't really have anything to say to those replies, because they're pretty much talking to air.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

They're not excluded. They're just reaping less powerful rewards. Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

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So basically: Just don't do the event until you have built your R/E/M and gotten all the VW/Abyssea stuff for your job.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So basically: Just don't do the event until you have built your R/E/M and gotten all the VW/Abyssea stuff for your job.

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Or even basicallyer, don't try to run before you can crawl.

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Originally Posted by Brolic

Or even basicallyer, don't try to run before you can crawl.

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Thing is +2 is far better then floor 60 sidegrade crap. Nothing offers that much of a improvement and floor 100 gear is lol side grade to with one or two that might be 1 to 2% better for one or two jobs but not worth the effort. Far more people are walking around with full +2s for the jobs they care about then you want to think and even if they are not +2 gear is far easier to get then floor 60. Its lol salvage all over to little for to much.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So basically: Just don't do the event until you have built your R/E/M and gotten all the VW/Abyssea stuff for your job.

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You can do the event without shooting for 100. 80 isn't out of reach even without relics, and +3 gear isn't bad at all if you're missing any VW/Abyssea gear. Even then, making a 90E/95R isn't really that bad these days.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You can do the event without shooting for 100. 80 isn't out of reach even without relics, and +3 gear isn't bad at all if you're missing any VW/Abyssea gear. Even then, making a 90E/95R isn't really that bad these days.

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All in all still pretty bad requirements just for entrance to floor 100. I don't know, we'll just have to see how this shakes out, but in my opinion, it is way to hard for 90% of people to even get to 100, and way too random / luck based for most of us that can get to 100. I personally only get to play like 3 hours a day (which is a lot of time on a video game if you think about it) and I'm not gonna spend it pulling a slot machine lever. I'll take slow steady progress over dumb luck any day.

Remove the randomness; ??? ; profit. No progresssion means no participation.

My suggestion is if you are within 5 floors of the the next boss level you are given the option to warp to the boss level. So if you have just completed Floor 75 (or 76-79) one of the options given will be to warp directly to floor 80. This would leave a lot of the randomness while also providing some certainty when you really need it.

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Originally Posted by detlef

My suggestion is if you are within 5 floors of the the next boss level you are given the option to warp to the boss level. So if you have just completed Floor 75 (or 76-79) one of the options given will be to warp directly to floor 80. This would leave a lot of the randomness while also providing some certainty when you really need it.

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It's still possible to hit a +9 on floor 72 though... I think it's better to make floors 20/40/60/80/100 mandatory, but the lamp will always be unlocked. For example, you can choose to ignore the floor 20 boss and go up to floor 21 immediately, but if you fight and defeat it, the "Travel to floor ???" will be unlocked and teleport you to a random floor between 22 and 39. (Or 31~39, as long as it's more then a normal ??? jump.)

I believe the random floor jump should be eliminated and replaced with something the skill of the players has control over. This system would give you the option to jump from 2-15 floors (and any inbetween) based on your performance on that floor.

For instance, if you finish a floor in under 1 minute, you can jump from 2-15 floors. For every 15 seconds (or so) after that minute mark, the max floor jumpable reduces by 1 (2-14, then 2-13) and caps at 2-5 floors when time on that floor reaches 3.5 minutes.

These numbers are preliminary and will need adjusting based on actual gameplay, but from the times my group has been clearing floors, this seems reasonable.

Why this would help:
1. reduce random luck. Sure you can still get bad floors, but your groups skill plays a direct role to increasing your floors per jump

2. Allows players to select the boss floors they're targeting. Last night my group jumped from 54 to 61. Another bit of random luck eliminated.

3. Consistency. This method will allows the top tier groups to consistently reach 100, the great groups to reach 80, or stretch for 100. And, the weak groups will be aiming for lower floors to improve their gear first, and then aim higher (tiered progression). Treasure will be more equally distributed to who deserves it, not to those lucky with a random number generator.

New idea!

Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey!!1!

The Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area!!1! is a 100 floor tower with three boxes spawned in a line in the middle of the arena. One of the three boxes (At random each time you enter the BC Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey) is an actual treasure chest.

Once a hostile action is performed on a Box, the other two boxes will despawn. If the selected box is the real one, it will turn into the Armory Crate a chest yielding increasingly powerful armor.

This way everybody can have a shot at level 100 drops regardless of gear and/or skill and/or time investment while maintaining SE's essential 1% drop rate on side-grades and town gear.

Seriously though, there are some interesting pieces to be had from this event, and right now it's too heavily biased towards dumb luck and cheating. 'The developers' need to play their own game, and I mean every last person who gets credited with development. They should be forced to play the game like regular people, acquiring gear the same way we get it. Then when they are almost done making an event they should be forced to play that event for a month straight so they can feel how soul crushing their retarded ideas on drop rates and 'balance' are.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

The event promotes(requires) 3rd party tools and exploits.

Terrible design and no progression system.

Neo Nyzul was dead upon arrival.

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Just as planned, gotta get rid of the people who stuck with this game somehow.

IMO one way to make this event a lot more enjoyable to do is to have floor bosses drops certain KI, and you can use this KI to upgrade or trade the armor of that floor. That way F20 and F40 gears isn't inv-1 anymore, they actually have a purpose. And you don't have to play lottery with 1/15 chance plus lotting against pt member for gear when you finally reached F100.

As long as you get to certain boss floor, you're guaranteed to get a piece of armor you want. IMO that'd make the event more enjoyable to do.

Also, please make a cap on F100, so you don't go back to F6 again.

As for 3rd pt tool, IMO if SE can get rid of lamp floors(especially order), then I believe 3rd pt tool won't make that much difference anymore. Seriously, lamp order is just a waste of time. Those who did Nyzul for years already know how to do it, and still a waste of time to do it. It's more annoying than hard. They should just make Nyzul hack and slash dungeon crawl.

Or they can dump the gear to be used with Nyzul tokens (since if you aren't doing a mythic and have played for awhile, you're flooded in it.)

...Well nevermind, 1 piece would probably be 90k Tokens for Balance reasons.

I do like the idea of tokens adding up for rewards though. Alot of us don't plan on making a mythic anytime soon soooooo we just stock up on tokens. Atleast then there would be progression I guess. Or make it so we can do like a magian trial to work our way to the 100 gear. Like say we do a floor 20 boss and legs drop, "trade 20 (input armor name) to upgrade to your +2" and so forth to get to 100 gear. Kinda like how forgotten stuff lets you skip over the +1 if you obtain enough of them.