Now that we are at 99

I posted a while back, and all I got was, "Do a mythic!" Thanks, but if the original post was actually read...I said that it would be a great idea to make an end-all, be-all damage staff for BLMs. This would include having to obtain the relic, mythic, empyrean, AND all elemental damage staves.

I still think that this is a great idea, and I think the devs should look into this. I want a staff that differentiates good BLMs from great BLMs. Make us obtain the following:

99 Claustrum
99 Laevateinn
99 Hvergelmir
99 Dark Magic Damage Staff
99 Light Magic Damage Staff
99 Fire Magic Damage Staff
99 Ice Magic Damage Staff
99 Water Magic Damage Staff
99 Wind Magic Damage Staff
99 Thunder Magic Damage Staff
99 Earth Magic Damage Staff

The idea is to obtain all of these staves and trade them in to upgrade each one. For example, if you trade in the 99 Ice and Thunder Damage Staves, you will get back one staff that has the SAME attributes for both elements on ONE staff. This would condense inventory space and make for one bad ass weapon.

It would eventually culminate in one staff that is dramatically more powerful than all of the rest. It is not meant to be easy to obtain, this is meant for players who are serious about BLM.

i'd also like to combine my pdt sword and my almace

Take off the relic, mythic, empyrean (and maybe dark/light) and I'd get behind this.

Otherwise, ugh no.

-mdt / -pdt sword ..... adding pdt to almace is too powerful

I am sorry. Gaining a relic and a mythic staff does not define a good BLM from a great BLM.

Needless to say. If SE where to combine the magian staves then they would need to do it for the other weapons as well.

Just. Plain. NO.

That is all :)

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Originally Posted by Joyroth

I am sorry. Gaining a relic and a mythic staff does not define a good BLM from a great BLM.

Needless to say. If SE where to combine the magian staves then they would need to do it for the other weapons as well.

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This could absolutely start a trend for SE to combine other weapons. I'm all for optimizing inventory space.

And I never said having these made you great. I said I want a staff that differentiates good from great. This is a suggestion to attain that.

Not necessarily.

There is a difference between looking the part and playing the part. I'm not knocking your idea here because it's not a terrible idea, but I hardly think a player should be considered great just because they have awesome items. That's the problem with some players, unfortunately, is that they assume that having RA/EX or high end gear makes them uber players, but at the end of the day, a 75DRK soloing Robber Crabs in full Plastron is just an idiot.

(Yes, I realize that Plastron isn't exactly cool these days, but it was THE gear to have once upon a time and I'm not familiar with all the new stuff yet.)

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Originally Posted by Rewyen

Not necessarily.

There is a difference between looking the part and playing the part. I'm not knocking your idea here because it's not a terrible idea, but I hardly think a player should be considered great just because they have awesome items. That's the problem with some players, unfortunately, is that they assume that having RA/EX or high end gear makes them uber players, but at the end of the day, a 75DRK soloing Robber Crabs in full Plastron is just an idiot.

(Yes, I realize that Plastron isn't exactly cool these days, but it was THE gear to have once upon a time and I'm not familiar with all the new stuff yet.)

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it was never The gear, it was THE gear for gimps

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Originally Posted by Rewyen

Not necessarily.

There is a difference between looking the part and playing the part. I'm not knocking your idea here because it's not a terrible idea, but I hardly think a player should be considered great just because they have awesome items. That's the problem with some players, unfortunately, is that they assume that having RA/EX or high end gear makes them uber players, but at the end of the day, a 75DRK soloing Robber Crabs in full Plastron is just an idiot.

(Yes, I realize that Plastron isn't exactly cool these days, but it was THE gear to have once upon a time and I'm not familiar with all the new stuff yet.)

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I absolutely see your point. Understanding what to do in various situations is what makes you great. Being able to parse at the top of the BLMs and not die or force hate to bounce ridiculously made you great. Being able to solo various mobs and NMs throughout the various level caps, made you great. I'm assuming that if all things else are equal, the ability to wield one weapon would be amazing. For the longest time (specifically, before the 75 cap increased), I never had the best or probably what people would consider great gear but I still out-parsed and pulled hate less than most BLMs that I have played with.

One really powerful weapon could certainly facilitate the removal of some inventory headaches that we currently face. I still think that it would be bad-ass and that those who put the work in, should be rewarded. There could even be different paths that you take. As one person mentioned, taking the relic and mythic out of the equation, possible creating 4 different paths with the relic/mythic/empy being at the backbone of each one or choosing the path that requires all 3. That would certainly add different tiers of challenge to the task.

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Originally Posted by Joyroth

Needless to say. If SE where to combine the magian staves then they would need to do it for the other weapons as well.

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Why? Other weapons don't have the same paths as staves. Staves have several exceptions, even among elemental trial weapons.

Usually there's two elemental paths, one for Attributes (STR and Attack, AGI and Evasion, etc.) and one for additional effects (weakens attack, impairs evasion, etc.). Pet job weapons get an additional elemental weapon for pet effects (axe for BST, staff for SMN and hand-to-hand for PUP).

Now, staff gets two extra paths per element just for spellcasters. One is for magic damage the other for magic accuracy. So not only is it an exception to every other trial weapon anyway, but it has something else that sets them apart from all other trial weapons (shared with the avatar pet staves): the effects of the staves are mutually exclusive. Comparing this to combining the PDT and MDB sword or the Attack and Evasion dagger are completely groundless, because then you'd benefit from both swords/daggers at the same time. You'd get a weapon that's superior to the two before. For example, you could maintain high attack while keeping high evasion on.

That would not be the case for combining mage specific staves, because you could not use the seperate effects simultaneously. If you cast a water-elemental spell, you would only get a bonus from one of the staves. And you'd get the same bonus from the (hypothetical) combined staff. As such, it's not a better weapon, only a more convenient one. It wouldn't require you to gimp your inventory just to be efficient. And I don't think that your playstyle should ever be hindered by your inventory (which, sadly, is the case as of now).

I'd be all for combining the mage-specific staves, all damage, accuracy and avatar ones. Even if it was an exception, it would be a very welcome one.

However, I strongly disagree with the relic/mythic/empyrean idea. I'd want the staff to actually be obtainable.

you know SE's going to shaft us with any type of upgrade on this scale by copying OP's suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

you know SE's going to shaft us with any type of upgrade on this scale by copying OP's suggestion.

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I have a bit more faith that if this suggestion is even taken to the Devs, that they will read all the 'valuable' posts and get the general idea from it. It would make sense for SE to tier it as others have suggested. Allowing the combination of elemental staves w/o r/m/e. Then potentially creating branches, or simply extra trials, to allow the combination of r/m/e staves to the mix.

I'm not sure how many times most of you have had to negotiate terms of things, but it's a common philosophy to start at something not necessarily realistic. This way you know full well that when they send a counter-offer, it will either be right around where you actually want it, or better. Camate or whichever team member would take this to the Devs and make them aware that there are people that simply don't want to add the r/m/e to the mix. The Devs could then, at that time, decide that they should make it step-wise as many of you have suggested.

Considering that this is a video game, I see no reason why they can't mold all of the 'valuable' suggestions and make it a step-wise progression. Of course, I am not familiar with game coding or things of that nature so I don't know how difficult this would be to develop. I don't think that trials that would lead up to my original post would that hard at all to implement. It means that some players will sit with just the elemental staves, and others will be allowed to progress further and combine those r/m/e weapons to their staff if they choose to. This way, everyone walks away with possibly less inventory space taken up by staves of each element.

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Originally Posted by Mystaticromance

I'm not sure how many times most of you have had to negotiate terms of things, but it's a common philosophy to start at something not necessarily realistic. This way you know full well that when they send a counter-offer, it will either be right around where you actually want it, or better.

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Two problems, first of all, this isn't a negotiation, you're just giving feedback, they'll decide what makes sense and what doesn't. There's nothing they want in return from you, nothing that would motivate them to bargain. If your suggestion doesn't make sense, they're more likely to just shrug it off instead of offering you a compromise.

Secondly, you're assuming that allowing relic, mythic and/or empyrean weapons in the mix would actually be "better", which I strongly disagree with. I wouldn't want trials like those at all.

All things aside, the singular stave that was meant to be acquired, that all BLMs are asking for already exists and it IS the Mythic staff. That was the intent behind it's creation for what it does and is supposed to enhance. That is also the reason why each magic job has its own particular mythic to suit its particular needs in various ways. The Magian trials are were a placebo, something that only took time and casual effort to acquire with a nice power boost and that has gained preference because a mythic staff (or club in whm's case) is ridiculous to acquire.

That is the answer to the 'meld all into the ultimate staff' suggestion. It's already there and it's a flaming frog bottom to lay hands on.

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Originally Posted by Geabrielle

All things aside, the singular stave that was meant to be acquired, that all BLMs are asking for already exists and it IS the Mythic staff.

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Yes and no. In terms of damage, it's about as good as the Lv90 trial staff because of the way Magic Attack Bonus is calculated. Which, honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with as well. In terms of accuracy it's the same as the Lv51 elemental staves (NQ, that is, it's even worse than the HQ versions). Lv95 and 99 trial staves are complete upgrades to Laevateinn (and I'm talking about the Lv99 version too, which we don't even know how to acquire yet).

Now if you consider that even the 75 version is pretty much impossible to obtain, add to the fact that the end result isn't even better than what's currently obtainable and I have no idea how you can even call that a solution.

I just want to be able to merge my smn elemental staffs, if they had a reasonable trial for that Id get behind it. But even tho we went thru all the work to get all elemental staffs to 99 they would still prob want us to get 1500 of some insane drop to merge em lol

adding the empy mythic and what not staffs into the mix tho I cant get behind

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Now if you consider that even the 75 version is pretty much impossible to obtain, add to the fact that the end result isn't even better than what's currently obtainable and I have no idea how you can even call that a solution.

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I don't call it a solution; SE calls it a solution by it's mere existence and I'm simply acknowledging that fact. There is no use yammering for what's already there, or attempt to negotiate a combination trial which would be nerfed out to equate the same thing... cuz face it, it's SE.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Why? Other weapons don't have the same paths as staves. Staves have several exceptions, even among elemental trial weapons?

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If SE just combines one set of the Magian Trials...you don't think others would catch on and make the same request?

I just don't see this happening.

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Originally Posted by Joyroth

If SE just combines one set of the Magian Trials...you don't think others would catch on and make the same request?

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No, because it's apples and oranges. Combining most elemental trial weapons would result in a vastly superior weapon. That is not the case for mage-style weapons. They're only more convenient, but equally powerful. There's a fundamental difference there. Requesting the same treatment for other weapons would be unreasonable.

I think we are getting off topic.
Look Mystaticromance I understand (as a career blm) that you want more inventory space and want to optimize your spells. However, There is no way in hell that SE would go for your idea... it is not because it is not inventive, but because simple put the resulting staff would be overpowered (as it should be if you are combining all of the endgame staffs) and god knows that we deserve something powerful after the joke that is empy-staff. It boils down to what this DEV team considers balance...
Now something as massive of your weapon idea might not be possible.. but what if there was a lvl 99 staff that was similar to the day/weather augmenting gear? or even one that would double the damage of an elemental magic critical proc?
We need to suggest things that are viable, as the DEV team will ignore most "far fetched" ideas, just look at our threads... how many responses from DEVs do we have? Like 3 ... Black Mage is sadly not a focus for the DEV team, something that I have sadly had to accept after playing sense NA release. Maybe one day we will get our super staff.. but until then the Magic Accuracy +10 "Magic Atk. Bonus" +50 of the Laevateinn (90) looks good to me!

They could make a singular obi that had all the effects of the 8 individual ones too. I'm sick of carrying 10 staves and 8 obi around all the time.

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Originally Posted by ZeroUnlimited

They could make a singular obi that had all the effects of the 8 individual ones too. I'm sick of carrying 10 staves and 8 obi around all the time.

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It would be a good idea! Maybe done via Synergy.
Just the same for each of the Magian staves. All eight formed into one. Or perhaps. If a player where to place two or more weapons that had similar effect. It would fuse the weapons together making a single weapon with the effects of the weapons placed into the furnace.

exaggeration but.....

Lets say we are not talking about ele staves.. Lets say you go through a lotta work and you get a shield that is -100% pdt, and a SEPARATE shield thats -100%MDT.

Someone plz explain to me the mechanic that actually makes pushing a quick button to change shields any different than just combining it? You went through all the work to get the 2, by themselves they are overpowered. How is it more overpowered if you combine it? I am not arguing either way, i just want to understand.

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Originally Posted by Zackan

Lets say we are not talking about ele staves.. Lets say you go through a lotta work and you get a shield that is -100% pdt, and a SEPARATE shield thats -100%MDT.

Someone plz explain to me the mechanic that actually makes pushing a quick button to change shields any different than just combining it? You went through all the work to get the 2, by themselves they are overpowered. How is it more overpowered if you combine it? I am not arguing either way, i just want to understand.

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Actually, for almost every other gear slot it would not be (more) overpowered to combine them. But for shield in particular, it would allow you to have both effects on without losing TP through swapping shields. So that could be one argument against it.

However (assuming the item was for another, TP-less slot), in general people who argue against this are the people who think it takes skill to macro items based on damage type. I'm not fully disagreeing with them either, because some people aren't aware of which attacks are magical and which physical, or mix them up in the heat of the battle, or are simply not quick enough to react, so they would have a great advantage from a combined option. However, skilled players would not be affected much by combining them, other than gaining one inventory slot, which is a welcome addition in my eyes. So worst case, it makes noob players better, which, personally, I don't have a problem with.

Thats what I thought... People are just nitpicky.. Main hand/sub slots affect keeping to... Staves and clubs though mages are not affected by that. If you physically HAVE said weapons should be able to combine...no valid reason not to

Mages have been asking for something like this for ages because even witht he lv 50 staves we were forced to carry 8 different weapons of the same type just to do our job. No other classes HAVE to do this most melee bring other types of weapons (gax,axe, sword). Yes some with ToM have created situational pieces, pdt, attack, and what not, but before you head to a fight you know the situation and arent' forced to bring all of them with you, some better players will just to be prepared but you dont NEED all of them during the fight.

With the staves they took the concept of the lv 51 ele staves they took the concept of ele infinity further but the way the implimented it was they divided the paths in 3 (not 2 someone mentioned) a mab path, macc path and perp path. So now if you are a versatile mage your forced to own 24 different weapons of the same type to play these jobs, or are forced to just stick with the lv 51 weapons if you dont have the inventory.

Melee complain that if we combine for mages we should do it for them. Again its not like melee have to change weapons for each type of ws they use and to tp in, if they need a different weapon of the same type its usually because a very specific condition (tanking, spamming a specific ws, an effect of the weapon) is requiring that and you stay with the same weapon through out the fight unless the situation drastically changes again. Yet mages to do their job right need to change weapons for every type of spell we use (our version of going from tp, to ws's), the only mage that knows before hand that its primarily going to cast one type of spell is whm they can bring just a cure staff and they are set.

If you take melee weapons and combine stats the weapon now has impvoved ability under all circumstances versus either of those weapons w/o combined stats. Where combining affinities any one spell is still the same strength as using it w/o the combined weapon. Why this wouldn't apply to all weapons.

One thing to add insult ontop of all this is they add tp gained on nuking making that tp a waste since we are most likely going to swap out staves before we get to use the TP.

My suggestion for balance would be one of 3 things:

One prolly the simplest, have a trial to combine all the mab staves into a single magic affinity dmg increase. Do the same thing for macc and perp giving us 3 seperate staves - one for mab, one for macc, and one for perp. This IMO is the best option since again your not combinging the stats of mab/macc/perp allowing a mage to nuke harder/more accurate or have a low perp on pet and nuker harder. This would fit more to how melee bring weapons for different situations, we need to do more dmg we use mab, we need to land more we bring macc, we need cheaper pets we bring perp.

Another option would be do somthing similiar to the lv 51 staves but at a higher lv still requiring us to carry 8 staves but they have overall affinity to one element these staves would not be as good as the current ToM lv 99's but somewhere in between the 51 and the 99s for balance closer to the 99s than the 51s. This would be an improvement over the 51's keeping our inventory usage the same as they would be the direct upgrade to the HQ 51s.

Last option would be a single staff that combines all the traits of the 51s. Again this wouuld be between the 51s and the 99s but the affinity lv would be less than that of the above so closer to the 51 stats versus closer to 99 ToM stats. This would be the option of one staff to sorta do it all but not overpowering those that put in the effort to do ToM and not to create a "we need to combine stats on melee weapons to give us a all in one weapon".

Really all they need to do is make the mythic weapon a 6 or higher affinity go all elements. Or maybe just the 6 elements. Then again I would like someone to explain how 60
Mab is not better than 6 affinity OUTSIDE of abyssea and voidwatch

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Originally Posted by Zackan

Really all they need to do is make the mythic weapon a 6 or higher affinity go all elements. Or maybe just the 6 elements. Then again I would like someone to explain how 60
Mab is not better than 6 affinity OUTSIDE of abyssea and voidwatch

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60 MAB on top of the native +36 and +40 (for example) from gear means 1.76 MAB without Laevateinn. With, that would rise to 2.36. 2.36/1.76 = 1.34, which means a 34% increase in damage. Affinity +x gives a 5*(x+1)% bonus, so Affinity +6 would equal magic damage +35%. 40 MAB is pretty low in gear too, the higher you get the less impact Laevateinn's 60 MAB will have (anything lower than 35 MAB in gear, Laevateinn would win, anything above it would lose, so realistically, always).

I would like you to show me what gear you used to get 176 MAB

And 2.. if all i am losing like 1% or 2% that doesnt bother me, I would be willng to lose more when mythic actually does work like an all in and one and a good one.

1% isnt that big a deal, then again i guess some peeps just care more about absolute max cappings.

But , what gear gives you 176 MAB, you get 40 from job trait.

So i guess the question is what gear gives you 136 MAB? i found a gear set but it gives like 104 total, including JT

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Originally Posted by Zackan

I would like you to show me what gear you used to get 176 MAB

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I was calculating with +40 from gear, as I said above. +36 from the job trait, for a total of +76 MAB. Since MAB is calculated as a multiplier, the base is 1.0 and every MAB point will add 1%, so 0.01. +40 from gear equals +0.4 and +36 from traits equals +0.36, so added to the base of 1.0 it will give you 1.0+0.36+0.4 = 1.76 (not 176). And +40 from gear is pretty low these days, you can get that from five items. A more realistic set would be +50, in which case the increase from another +60 from Laevateinn would be 2.46/1.86 = 32%. And it only gets worse from there. Every MAB you gain outside of your staff will make the staff decrease in value. Assume a future with +100 MAB in nuking sets. That would mean Laevateinn would only add another 25% to your total damage. That's not the case with Affinity staves. Damage affinity will multiply the damage seperately from MAB calculations, so you'd still get +35% damage from the trial staves, which means they'd be 8% better than the mythic in that scenario (consistantly).

What so confusing, how does any of that make sense...

40 mab from gear is 40% ?

Well maybe they will fix gonna get it anywy lol.. so confusing... my head is spinning


SEEMS THE SIMPLE SOLUTION IS THAT SE NEEDS TO FIX THE MYTHIC... NO FLAT BONUS, MAKE IT AN AFFINITY!