Abyssea adjustment idea

Its probably been stated b4 somewhere, but I couldnt find a thread, so I'm making one.

I think my idea would breathe new life in non-abyssea zones, as well as bring back the Auction House from bankruptcy, bring back xp PTs, repopulate Campaign/Besieged and even I dare to guess could raise the quality bar on so many lolJOB90's out there.

My idea is this:
Make Abyssea Zones 75+ entry only.

Too many ppl have now used abyssea to fast track all their JOB30's to 90,
thus making any xp camps post-kazam into dead zones,
and gear/weapon sets lower than 70 almost non existant in AH.
And I know I'm not the only one who's seen a JOB90 or 2 out there that is completely awful at their job, because they've never had to actually use it in any capacity beyond: /item "Forbidden Key" <t>
"ooo look at me I have 10x JOB90's...never played any of them, but at least I have 10"

I for one have resisted the temptaion to fast track my jobs, even the subjobs I dont enjoy, I still try to learn the job as I level it.

I believe that Abyssea entry set to 75+ would fix at least some of the problems we see in the non-abyssea zones.

It really isn't SE's fault if players abyssea burn their jobs then not learn how to play them. Saying people who leveled from 1-75+ outside of abyssea are superior to those who didn't is just wrong. Even before abyssea there were SMN burns. I abyssea leeched my dnc to 75 and I find myself far better than the vast majority of DNCs who leveled their's "normally." It doesn't take a lot of brainwork to find out most jobs are essentially the same and if your previous job experience can't help you, then take some time outside of events and go out and actually learn the job, you should be able to get the feel for it after a few hours. If you really must endure 45 something levels to "learn" your job, then you're doing it wrong. If you still see people not knowing what they're doing, stop partying with idiots. make your own parties, ls parties, etc etc. Even with idiots it's not hard to get decent exp in abyssea (assuming people aren't capped already).

It's not so much that it has taken us so many levels to learn a job, but we've had a job for so many years with constant updates, and we had to adjust to that. A job that grows up with no updates could most likely utilize the job to it's best of abilities better than a veteran who has to get use to playing the job with new things than what we weren't use to before. And Abyssea has basically gimped jobs due to the leeching if players didn't previously already had that skill maxed or near maxed, and being gimp is a problem for many parties and event linkshells.

There has been another thread that suggested the minimum level requirement to be lifted. And unless there are monsters out there that LV30 jobs can fight and level normally in Abyssea, I'm for the nerf.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Saying people who leveled from 1-75+ outside of abyssea are superior to those who didn't is just wrong. Even before abyssea there were SMN burns. I abyssea leeched my dnc to 75 and I find myself far better than the vast majority of DNCs who leveled their's "normally.".

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I'm sorry but last I checked there is no 'Dance" skill, I'm refering to more of the BLU, SMN, RDM, etc etc jobs that require skills to function. and I also have the same opinion about SMN burn PTs, it's an exploit that dumbs down the player pool.
& I will say that someone who took the time to level their job conventionally, typically will be better at the job than someone who skipped 60 levels in a week.
I will give you this though; previous job experience does help, example: a Veteran SAM90 & NIN90 will probably do pretty good if they leeched 60 levels on WAR, but you'd be hard pressed to show me how fast tracking BLU or any other complex Job makes them equally skilled as the Conventional leveler in the same class.
& seeing as how most jobs gain their 'defining' job ability/spell/traits at the 40'ish mark, yes I'd say it does take 45 levels to learn most jobs, the remaining 45 levels are about refining your skills & play style.
& this game has been populated with all types of ppl since day one, Idiots included, you cant avoid them, try as you might. all you can do is offer tips in /tell while not trying to sound like an elitist jerk.

This was a tangent i didnt want to focus on. SE cannot govern the mentality of the players at large.
My main point was that non-abyssea zones are dead. an Abyssea 75+ min would help.

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Originally Posted by Genralzod

I'm sorry but last I checked there is no 'Dance" skill, I'm refering to more of the BLU, SMN, RDM, etc etc jobs that require skills to function. and I also have the same opinion about SMN burn PTs, it's an exploit that dumbs down the player pool.
& I will say that someone who took the time to level their job conventionally, typically will be better at the job than someone who skipped 60 levels in a week.
I will give you this though; previous job experience does help, example: a Veteran SAM90 & NIN90 will probably do pretty good if they leeched 60 levels on WAR, but you'd be hard pressed to show me how fast tracking BLU or any other complex Job makes them equally skilled as the Conventional leveler in the same class.
& seeing as how most jobs gain their 'defining' job ability/spell/traits at the 40'ish mark, yes I'd say it does take 45 levels to learn most jobs, the remaining 45 levels are about refining your skills & play style.
& this game has been populated with all types of ppl since day one, Idiots included, you cant avoid them, try as you might. all you can do is offer tips in /tell while not trying to sound like an elitist jerk.

This was a tangent i didnt want to focus on. SE cannot govern the mentality of the players at large.
My main point was that non-abyssea zones are dead. an Abyssea 75+ min would help.

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DNCs do have Evasion and Dagger skills, both pretty important. I can't tell you how many NIN/DNC/THFs who didn't have Evasion anywhere near capped (I capped it within a few hours). I fixed that problem though, I stopped partying with people I didn't know. You can avoid the people who don't care about their jobs, it really isn't hard.

I also Abyssea Leeched my BLU, my blue magic skill and sword are uncapped. Guess what I've used it for? Absolutely nothing. I'm not going to use it for any party/group situation until I feel it is competently geared/skilled. It's also not hard to solo TEs in Abyssea while I skill up and I've greatly learned how to play BLU and know what my weaknesses/strengths/etc are.

It doesn't take a college degree to learn how to play your job in a few hours, and if you really need 45 levels to learn how to play your job, then (again) you're doing it wrong.

Back to the point, originally you said lifting the minimum level to 75 for abyssea would "fix" these unskilled players. With SMN burning, Level sync (you could hit 75 in Qufim man) and Power leveling you are going to still have these gimps (there were many even before abyssea). Getting rid of a good thing because other people can't control themselves is being selfish.

Interesting points being made on both sides, I think. My feelings are more leaned towards the OP. I felt like it was unfair for LV 30s to leech all the way to 90 in a matter of a day or three. I can see where you're coming from though, Alkalinehoe, and I do agree that with some jobs you can learn to play within a few hours. Some jobs are brainless like DDs and once you've leveled one to 90, you probably have a good idea as to what you should expect from another DD job. In my opinion, though, I think the game is much more enriching when you level a job from 1-75 the traditional way. You gain not only the literal experience points, but the experience as a whole that accompanies when you level a job. You learn from different situations what to do and what not to do. That's just me, though.

What about when you use it to level subjobs? Which had always been a pain beforehand. If you know how to play the game, I honestly don't care whether you leech or not.

This is like beating up a dead horse, again. Abyssea is perfect as it is. By making the content accessible to lvl 30, SE is letting new players reap the benefits of the new add ons early on, and not make them wait till they hit lvl 75. Absolutely no changes needed there. As for leeching xp, you need to ask yourself, the players are the one who let other leech, and abuse the system, not SE. Personally, I think the only way you can learn your job + role is by doing a lot of these so called endgame activities, and not by spending hours in xp party where you are doing the same 1-3 things over and over. By letting everyone get to lvl 90 in less than 3 days, SE is taking the time sink of lvlng and let everyone immediately do what they want, start gears collecting.

Yes the game has changed, things are much faster pace now, gone are the huge time sink, and you can complete a lot with 3-6 people in your party. Now everyone has a fair chance to get what they want if they are willing to spend some time. I do agree that SE need to adjust the older content areas so that they become somewhat comparable to Abyssea, not only in terms of xp, but also items rewarded. I think the only reason SE is slow to do this, is because they want everyone to buy the add ons. Did you notice that the newer Abyssea is always better than the last? And how the first Abyssea areas are pretty much dead except for a few quests and atmas? If the older areas are just as good as Abyssea, there is no need for us to buy the add ons, which is NOT what SE wants.

its too late to change abyssea specially taking out good things.
i like what it is now

I would love to hear why SE made the min level 30. that is big reason for people being lazy these days.

My view is this, there is no reason to make it min 30, you can't do anything but key chests. you need around 65 with good atma or at lest 72-75 to actally contribute.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I would love to hear why SE made the min level 30. that is big reason for people being lazy these days.

My view is this, there is no reason to make it min 30, you can't do anything but key chests. you need around 65 with good atma or at lest 72-75 to actally contribute.

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Luvbunny already ansswrred this and said it so all could understand it

"By making the content accessible to lvl 30, SE is letting new players reap the benefits of the new add ons early on, and not make them wait till they hit lvl 75. Absolutely no changes needed there. As for leeching xp, you need to ask yourself, the players are the one who let other leech, and abuse the system, not SE."

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It really isn't SE's fault if players abyssea burn their jobs then not learn how to play them. Saying people who leveled from 1-75+ outside of abyssea are superior to those who didn't is just wrong.

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Yes they are superior and this is why.. You take the time to learn how to function in a party with limited skills/abilities/spells ect and you function and support a group.. Leeching in abyssea your dragging down the group and I bet majority of people would rather have a functioning member of a alliance in abyssea then a leech because all they do is slow kill rate, Im not saying key people aren't important but thats fine to designate 1 or 2 spots max for that and allow a friend to level a job just for the simple entertainment of doing so or a job that doesn't require skill ups (e.g. leveling DNC after a THF has been leveled to 90 or RDM leveling after BLM has been leveled) but for new people to take advantage of new content at lower levels? REALLY! if your a new player you shouldn't even be worried about new content until you worked your way up to it.. SqEnix did say that abyssea was going to be made for 75+ characters and thats one reason I think they should put a higher level cap on it.. to make it exclusive to higher levels.. a level 50 job isn't going to get anything they need out abyssea so why allow them to enter? I haven't seen anything drop for low levels and upgrade items are for 75+ levels so how does that balance things out? Especially now that they doubled xp outside abyssea its just the simple truth people are being lazy and don't want to take the time and effort to level a job and learn it they want to smash on the staples easy button and bam have a job they don't know how to play.. clear example
went in an alliance for a LS member for his upgrade items but also for atma.. had 1 blm, all you need for yellow proc in the case of elemental spells is a BLM well this blm manage to go from level 37-90 in 2 days in abyssea but didn't have any of the AM spells because they were too expensive was getting massive skill up and above all didnt know how long a spell casting time was for a spell and constantly casted during a TP move.. people need to learn how to play before they get involved in end game stuff..
Most people know an end game wouldn't take a low level job to end game its pointless no matter how many alliances they had involved at any given time.. so why should low level jobs be involved in the biggest end game event of all? Abyssea is end game weather people wanna admit it or not.. its not a place to go level a 30 job nor should a level 30 job be allowed to go level.. not to mention its crap people will charge people for leech spots and make gil off exploiting an alliance out to get xp..

Germ, it all depends on the jobs and what you define "leeching". Leechers are the one who do absolutely nothing at all and just stand there reaping the xp benefits and contribute 0 to the alliance. If you don't like having a leecher, boot that person, most people in your alliance would probably support you anyway. Someone who does absolutely nothing to the alliance and goes AFK for 30mnts should be booted.

- Mages: especially whm, sch, rdm, brd, and cor are not quite a leecher in abby starting at lvl 50s. They can help cure and hardly will run out of mp. Cor and Brd buffs helps, especially when you have those melees with underskilled weapon or melees at 75s (they are considered a leecher on abyssea tailored for lvl 85 and up). Because you gain xp so fast, those so called leecher will contribute more faster.
- Puller: yes you can pull at lvl 55s and up, it's a bit risky and you need one of your high level melee as your voke partner so you don't get pummeled to death but it's doable. Having 2-3 pullers will help to make the xp rolls more easily. By the time you reach lvl 70s which should be around 3 hours, you pull more easier.
- Chest openers: this seems easy until you get 4-5 chest dropping at consistent rate, in which case, it become a full time job. Having a dedicated chest opener let others focus on killing the mobs. And if you can heal as chest opener, you should help out a bit.

As for learning about your job... you hardly learn much about it on normal exp party. If any at all, since you are doing the same 2-3 things over and over. There is really not much to learn about the job, you can read everything you need to know on wiki. You learn more about that particular job by doing a small party for seals farming, since everyone is accountable, and doing double duty, plus there is no safety net of an alliance. Some people learn fast, others need more time to practice. All abyssea offers is a faster way to reach lvl 90 so you can do things that actually matters, which is collecting gears, finishing missions (without having to constantly bug people to help you). There are still A TON of things to do when you reach lvl 90s.

There's actually a lot of things you can do at level 30 in Abyssea... getting all the confluxes, quests, and so on, a good selection of content you can enjoy. You just can't be effective in the battle content.

It's the player base that is allowing level 30 to leech their way to an unskilled 90, not the zone itself.

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Originally Posted by Laverda

There's actually a lot of things you can do at level 30 in Abyssea... getting all the confluxes, quests, and so on, a good selection of content you can enjoy. You just can't be effective in the battle content.

It's the player base that is allowing level 30 to leech their way to an unskilled 90, not the zone itself.

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Agreed! No one can leech if the rest of the alliance is against it, even if you are alliance leader, everyone can drop and reform party and leave you out cold in abyssea. As for useless leecher, if party leader boot them, no one will complaint. Abyssea is amazing as it is, it's the player base that let others abuse it and do absolutely nothing and let the new habit of leeching become an ok thing to do. Though you still need a dedicated person to open chest and only that, but you do not need 3 chest openers in an alliance and 4 other people who goes afk for an hour or more.

To be honest, as melee lvl 75 with no atmas, you are also considered semi leeching since you can't hit the mob effectively or contribute much to the party when you are in lvl 85 and up areas. Mages have it easy since Cure 5 is effective no matter what, but BLMs with no atmas and underleveled skills are just as worse as leecher.

I'm wondering how Germ figures Abyssea to be endgame? Abyssea takes some teamwork, but not enough to be called endgame in my opinion. To me, it's just one giant killfest. Not to mention, access to Abyssea is as simple as buying a 10 dollar expansion. It's not like , Dynamis, Sea, Limbus and Sky etc. where you must go through an entire storyline of missions and quests in order to even ENTER the area, not even accounting for the teamwork needed to get through the zone and get the gear you want.

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Originally Posted by GERM

Yes they are superior and this is why.. You take the time to learn how to function in a party with limited skills/abilities/spells ect

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Why can't you learn this at 90? And if you already have a job leveled, you should already know this before hand.... People are NOT superior just because they did not leech to 90.

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Leeching in abyssea your dragging down the group and I bet majority of people would rather have a functioning member of a alliance in abyssea then a leech because all they do is slow kill rate

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If you're in an alliance and you absolutely need every single person DDing to get a good exp rate/TE, then you need to reevaluate your DDs.

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Im not saying key people aren't important but thats fine to designate 1 or 2 spots max for that and allow a friend to level a job just for the simple entertainment of doing so or a job that doesn't require skill ups (e.g. leveling DNC after a THF has been leveled to 90 or RDM leveling after BLM has been leveled)

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If you skill up after you leech to 90, are you ok with that?

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but for new people to take advantage of new content at lower levels? REALLY! if your a new player you shouldn't even be worried about new content until you worked your way up to it..

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Why not? In my social there is a new new player who started BLM who we let leech from 50->90. Now he's happier then ever, he can participate in events (dyna, Abyssea, etc) with us rather then spending weeks soloing pets and learning how to actually play BLM rather then "learning" how to play his job via pets for 75 levels.

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SqEnix did say that abyssea was going to be made for 75+ characters

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What does this have to do with anything?

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a level 50 job isn't going to get anything they need out abyssea so why allow them to enter?

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They get EXP.

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I haven't seen anything drop for low levels and upgrade items are for 75+ levels so how does that balance things out?

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People like to get upgrade items before they level a job? I had the stones for blue legs +2 when my blu was only level 30.

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Especially now that they doubled xp outside abyssea

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A step in the right direction, but EXP in abyssea is still much much better.

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its just the simple truth people are being lazy and don't want to take the time and effort to level a job and learn it they want to smash on the staples easy button and bam have a job they don't know how to play

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Stop playing with idiots?

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.. clear example
went in an alliance for a LS member for his upgrade items but also for atma.. had 1 blm, all you need for yellow proc in the case of elemental spells is a BLM well this blm manage to go from level 37-90 in 2 days in abyssea but didn't have any of the AM spells because they were too expensive was getting massive skill up and above all didnt know how long a spell casting time was for a spell and constantly casted during a TP move.. people need to learn how to play before they get involved in end game stuff..

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I completely agree, your BLM was being lazy. You should kick them and get a new one. I know how to play BLM better than most who jumped on the bandwagon and my BLM is only 23. The truth of the matter is, even if he abyssea whored his job, he should have spent some time learning (and actually getting the neccessary spells for it) the job before taking it to an event.

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Most people know an end game wouldn't take a low level job to end game its pointless no matter how many alliances they had involved at any given time.. so why should low level jobs be involved in the biggest end game event of all?

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You aren't actually doing an end game event, you're just exping.

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Abyssea is end game weather people wanna admit it or not.

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Aspects of it are, but not EXPing. But of course since Dark Ixion pops in East Ronfaure (S) it's endgame onry. No one could possibly exp there.

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its not a place to go level a 30 job nor should a level 30 job be allowed to go level.

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It obviously is.

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not to mention its crap people will charge people for leech spots and make gil off exploiting an alliance out to get xp..

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Make your own parties? Really, you don't even need a full party. A WHM and 1-3 DDs is all you need (I've done it with 1 DD and a RDM). You aren't exploiting an ally at all if your ally is competent....

You have to realize there are idiots and genius playing the game. Us smart people only need 5 minutes at level 90 to learn the job. Other people will at level 55 say "Lets not invite a THF. That first voke and sneak attack business is just so confusing." (true story). Notice I'm talking about a person who has actually played the classic old slow way to 55 and still don't know how THF works because it is too much for his brain.

I guarantee you the amount of poor players is the same as always. It doesn't matter if they play 5 years or 2 days to get to 90. They just don't have the will to learn.

I agree faster xp doesn't make people worse. those people were bad from jump. i prefer faster xp so i dont waste my time at levels where the job isnt fun. like right now my ninja is at 50 and he hits like a limp armed baby and i hate it. but i blink tank from my 90 thf or DNC so would have no prob doing it on NIN and since EVA capped for THF(highest in game) nothing to skill up on NIN except ninjusta katana and great katana

I think I'll still take my car to the mechanic with 20+ years experience before the 2 week apprentice who thinks he knows it all cuz he read about it on wiki & has the keys to the shop.

anyway, this topic has gotten away from my intended discussion. & that is; FFXI zones & AH are dying, & Abyssea is the cause. SE is the fix, not the player base.

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Originally Posted by Genralzod

I think I'll still take my car to the mechanic with 20+ years experience before the 2 week apprentice who thinks he knows it all cuz he read about it on wiki & has the keys to the shop.

anyway, this topic has gotten away from my intended discussion. & that is; FFXI zones & AH are dying, & Abyssea is the cause. SE is the fix, not the player base.

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That analogy isn't really appropriate. It's more like, someone who has used an Operating system for 5 years can adjust and learn how to work with a new version quickly. The error in your analogy is assuming someone is actually learning everything from new, once you've worked with one job and learned the mechanics of the game, you'll find most, if not all, jobs work relatively the same.

Abyssea has breathed new life into the game, removing a solution to an enormous and unnecessary portion to the game is just downright selfish.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Germ, it all depends on the jobs and what you define "leeching". Leechers are the one who do absolutely nothing at all and just stand there reaping the xp benefits and contribute 0 to the alliance. If you don't like having a leecher, boot that person, most people in your alliance would probably support you anyway. Someone who does absolutely nothing to the alliance and goes AFK for 30mnts should be booted.

- Mages: especially whm, sch, rdm, brd, and cor are not quite a leecher in abby starting at lvl 50s. They can help cure and hardly will run out of mp. Cor and Brd buffs helps, especially when you have those melees with underskilled weapon or melees at 75s (they are considered a leecher on abyssea tailored for lvl 85 and up). Because you gain xp so fast, those so called leecher will contribute more faster.
- Puller: yes you can pull at lvl 55s and up, it's a bit risky and you need one of your high level melee as your voke partner so you don't get pummeled to death but it's doable. Having 2-3 pullers will help to make the xp rolls more easily. By the time you reach lvl 70s which should be around 3 hours, you pull more easier.
- Chest openers: this seems easy until you get 4-5 chest dropping at consistent rate, in which case, it become a full time job. Having a dedicated chest opener let others focus on killing the mobs. And if you can heal as chest opener, you should help out a bit.

As for learning about your job... you hardly learn much about it on normal exp party. If any at all, since you are doing the same 2-3 things over and over. There is really not much to learn about the job, you can read everything you need to know on wiki. You learn more about that particular job by doing a small party for seals farming, since everyone is accountable, and doing double duty, plus there is no safety net of an alliance. Some people learn fast, others need more time to practice. All abyssea offers is a faster way to reach lvl 90 so you can do things that actually matters, which is collecting gears, finishing missions (without having to constantly bug people to help you). There are still A TON of things to do when you reach lvl 90s.

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I agree with you both to a certain extent. Yes a low level new player can provide some aid to a party but would a whm that newly acquired Cure IV know that this spell pulls alot of hate then Cure III? No, absolutely not. Luvbunny, for you to say "As for learning about your job... you hardly learn much about it on normal exp party. If any at all, since you are doing the same 2-3 things over and over.", you must have joined this game post ToAU with all the TP burns, mana burns and merit parties. For anyone that has played this game pre ToAU knows that there is ALOT more to an exp party then doing the same 2-3 moves. IE, Buffs, Debuffs, 1st voke for SATA, hate control, what to do when things get out of hand, sleeping or binding links, voking a link off the whm, using your JA that you acquire after hitting 40, what if you pull something too strong and run out of mp, etc. All these situations can come up during an event even with an experienced ls. I've seen many of the big name ls's on my server "Leviathan" run into this problem but having the "Experience" knowing how to handle it all comes from grinding out your low levels. I feel it should be mandatory in this game to do a non synced level 10 dunes party for people to truely learn how to play this game. LOL, guess I'm aging myself now and getting off topic. But I admit I was never a fan of the grind, but I only leveled the jobs that I actually wanted to play and the rest are at sub level, but I learned how to play each job correctly and will continue to do so.

Actually, if you want to make the non Abyssea zones viable what you need to do is get rid of any drops that are for synthesis materials in abyssea, i.e. no more hare meat from the bunnies, etc. Basically, all that would drop is AF3 items, pop items, Abyssea temp items (but no food) and all the gear that drops is r/ex and cannot be sold to NPCs, make people work for their gil again.

Let the flamefest begin!

Ruvion, I played the game since 2003 so yes I know about the stuffs you have mentioned above. All the so called "inconveniences" were all fixed way before Abyssea (mpks, trailing the mobs, etc..). All the party dynamics you mentioned can still be experienced in a trio set up outside or inside Abyssea.

The game is already made way more enjoyable with ToAU, all Abyssea did was reducing the dreaded xp grind from 75-90, and as a bonus, it let everyone starting from level 30 to reap the same benefits. As it stands now, FFXI is giving players TONS of option to play the game to suit their styles. And guess what, I would guess probably over 80% of the players took the easy way out and really love Abyssea. The one who pines for "the way it used to be" are either quit the game a long time ago, got disgruntled but have no choice and bought the mini expansions, or wishing it could be back to the way it was, sadly, no one is listening to their wishes. FFXI is moving in the right direction, and the game is 10 times better than "the way it used to be". SE is finally caving in and giving what the majority of players want, and the players give SE what it wants the most, money.

Since Abyssea came out, I get to level many jobs that I wanted but just stop cold at level 50s since they were not exactly the most wanted jobs pre-abby. I enjoyed all these new jobs and learned a lot of new playstyles. I get to do a lot of endgame stuffs with a lot less people, and found the game more enjoyable than ever before. I met a lot of new people, do a lot of seal farmings with strangers, and experience the kindness of others who let me get seals because no one else wanted. I get to finish a lot of the other missions, without needing the help of 5 other people (mind you I got sea and sky finished way back in 2005). I found the game is less of a grind but more of a jump in, quickly find people to do things, and get in the fun ASAP immediately. Total pure instant gratification fun.

Luvbunny, I can see you're taking this post personally and I'm guessing that you've taken some shit from people on your sever about leeching jobs to 90. I'm happy for you that you are a veteran player that knows how to play their job and gets to enjoy all jobs at 90 now. I'm also glad that you got to experience the difficulty of this game when it was only a few years old. I also found it much more rewarding when you worked as a team to get some piece of gear that you wanted so badly for such a long time. I can say this about abyssea, because of all being able to hold 3 lunar abyssites, some kick ass atmas and using a brew, you can now easily solo, duo and trio NMs. I low man everything in abyssea and enjoy it because you don't have to deal with retards anymore. That's the only thing that SE did that made this game alot better, no longer having to deal with idiots and their retarded rules.

Anyway, back on topic, I was meerly saying that there is alot more to exping then doing the same 3 moves like you stated in a previous post. However, a NEW PLAYER that is abusing this new exp system will not reap the benefits of enjoying their newly acquired level 90 jobs quickly. It is not "Total pure instant gratification fun." Just think of this example, even for a vet player. Let's say you only leveled mage jobs because you knew in the past it was your ticket to getting into that end game ls you always wanted to join. Now that you leveled and fully merited all your mage jobs you decided that you like the idea of being able to burn a job and that a level 90 dnc do alot of things in abyssea. Keep in mind, because you only leveled mage jobs, that a mage's eva/parry/dagger skills are no where near that of a dnc. You'll now have to go waste time skilling up eva/parry/dagger skills to utilize your new level 90 job. It's not hard to figure out how the JA's work on dnc but it takes time to become good at it. I'm just saying you get the time to develop these skills as you experience the grind....... Don't forget that you will also need to level the appropriate subs for the job, /nin /sam /war and even /mnk early on. You won't be proficient in any of the skills required for these jobs either.

From what I've been told, you can no longer SMN burn. I haven't tried or tested this because I don't do SMN burns, but they made it so that monsters despawn if not killed fast in a SMN burn. There for, you don't get nearly as much exp per pull as you did before. I completely agree that the min level for abyssea should be raised but I personally think it should be lv. 66 ~ 70. After lv. 66 or 70 you can be of some use with pulling or some other form. As for those that have been saying that you can learn all about a job by just playing it outside of abyssea for a few hours, I believe you are wrong. I haven't in the 6+ years playing met a person that knew as much about a job as someone that leveled it the "normal" way. Aka: SMN burning, or Abyssea key whoring up the job. For those that think raising the level cap will hurt the game, I don't think so. It will breath life back into the other zones and make players go to those zones because they can't just spam FoV to lv. 30 then key whore up the jobs. I love the idea of FoV pages but again that makes people stop pting and focus more on solo/duo/trio'ing and not playing in a group. I feel that this also lets players skip on learning how to play their jobs in a group function. This is a little off topic but I hope that SE makes it so that PLD's get a massive buff. Right now they are worthless in abyssea. They can't do the job they are ment for because its better to have a NIN, DNC, THF, or other high eva job with /NIN to tank over a low eva PLD. They don't do enough damage to compete with other DD's hate gain, provoke and flash and all the other JA's or spells can't compete with other jobs hate gain. Back on topic, forcing people to play the jobs and not just get to lv. 30 will help other zones that were dead become alive again. Also, it will help make abyssea not so crowded due to people making abyssea pt's just so they can level their SJ's to 49/50ish. I do believe that players learn jobs better when they level them normally and not just key whore them up. I've run into several PLD's that didn't even know what "Cover" was and DNC's that just figured out that they had "Healing Waltz". SMN's that didn't know what spells/moves their pets had and BLM's that hit blizzard V for 100~300 damage 8/10 times. That's just to name a few. WHM's that do Cure IV over Cure V, RDM's that get down to 0MP and wonder why they can't convert. So, for those that say it only takes a few hours, for some people that is true. Others... Not so much. Yes there are those players that plain suck... but there are also those people that don't care to learn the job and only want it leveled to have it leveled. Those that just want it leveled so they can say they have it leveled and have all the +2 AF3 for it... makes me sick. I have several jobs leveled and I leveled them all the normal way to lv. 70+. Can be done solo or low man or normal full exp pt. I've done all ways and to best learn a job in an pt/alli setting someone needs to play that job in that setting in game or they normally are full of fail.
Lv. 66 is what I would like to see for the new level minimum level needed to enter abyssea. 66 is the minimum level you can do the "maat fights" so it should be the minimum you can enter abyssea. At least that's my thoughts on it.

This argument again?

If you don't like it, don't do it. If you have a problem with people who do it, don't play with them.

I've leeched 2 of my jobs to 90, then spent hours outside of abyssea or in skillup parties learning the jobs and getting up to par. If people don't want to take the time to learn their jobs and level their skills, that's their choice and I won't hate them for it, but I won't keep them in my party.

You can still do SMN burns. IDK where you heard that from.

soooo many threads are made up with this exact suggestion. i wonder if SE is even considering this, or are they just keeping the entry to level 30 so that new people can experiance end game without going through the hell that we all did to get a high level character

I can see both sides of this issue quite well, I for one hate the idiotic players who can't perform the jobs they have cuz they never learned them, but I also agree that if you already know the job whats wrong with fast tracking xp. Back long before aht urghan i was lvling smn, and I learned how to play a smn and whm quite well, but i had this problem with skill ups. I would spend days summoning and unsummoning tryin to keep my smn skill up and this hindered my lvling. Eventually i gave up smn til after aht urghan and some new ways for smn to skill up and picked it up for another 10 lvls, finally i did some leeching on it to get it to 76 were it currently remains, since the skill up fix I've been tryin to get my skill to a reasonable lvl. Ultimately I'm gonna get my skills caught up and learn how utilize the job in todays world, which is what everyone needs to do, to fast track by leeching isn't a sin, but to never bother learning the job or being useless is. I have a few friends joining the game and they really want to do some endgame with me, cuz they hear all about the fun endgame stuff, and i told them all about learning the job properly so they are up to the challenge, so what would be wrong with them fast tracking to 90? Ultimately I suggest if it ain't broke don't fix it, and the problem isn't abyssea its the player base.

And thats my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

It really isn't SE's fault if players abyssea burn their jobs then not learn how to play them. Saying people who leveled from 1-75+ outside of abyssea are superior to those who didn't is just wrong. Even before abyssea there were SMN burns. I abyssea leeched my dnc to 75 and I find myself far better than the vast majority of DNCs who leveled their's "normally." It doesn't take a lot of brainwork to find out most jobs are essentially the same and if your previous job experience can't help you, then take some time outside of events and go out and actually learn the job, you should be able to get the feel for it after a few hours. If you really must endure 45 something levels to "learn" your job, then you're doing it wrong. If you still see people not knowing what they're doing, stop partying with idiots. make your own parties, ls parties, etc etc. Even with idiots it's not hard to get decent exp in abyssea (assuming people aren't capped already).

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I agree. You learn more about ur job doin endgame events that by beatin pink birds for 20 ish levels.

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Originally Posted by GERM

Yes they are superior and this is why.. You take the time to learn how to function in a party with limited skills/abilities/spells ect and you function and support a group.. Leeching in abyssea your dragging down the group and I bet majority of people would rather have a functioning member of a alliance in abyssea then a leech because all they do is slow kill rate, Im not saying key people aren't important but thats fine to designate 1 or 2 spots max for that and allow a friend to level a job just for the simple entertainment of doing so or a job that doesn't require skill ups (e.g. leveling DNC after a THF has been leveled to 90 or RDM leveling after BLM has been leveled) but for new people to take advantage of new content at lower levels? REALLY! if your a new player you shouldn't even be worried about new content until you worked your way up to it.. SqEnix did say that abyssea was going to be made for 75+ characters and thats one reason I think they should put a higher level cap on it.. to make it exclusive to higher levels.. a level 50 job isn't going to get anything they need out abyssea so why allow them to enter? I haven't seen anything drop for low levels and upgrade items are for 75+ levels so how does that balance things out? Especially now that they doubled xp outside abyssea its just the simple truth people are being lazy and don't want to take the time and effort to level a job and learn it they want to smash on the staples easy button and bam have a job they don't know how to play.. clear example
went in an alliance for a LS member for his upgrade items but also for atma.. had 1 blm, all you need for yellow proc in the case of elemental spells is a BLM well this blm manage to go from level 37-90 in 2 days in abyssea but didn't have any of the AM spells because they were too expensive was getting massive skill up and above all didnt know how long a spell casting time was for a spell and constantly casted during a TP move.. people need to learn how to play before they get involved in end game stuff..
Most people know an end game wouldn't take a low level job to end game its pointless no matter how many alliances they had involved at any given time.. so why should low level jobs be involved in the biggest end game event of all? Abyssea is end game weather people wanna admit it or not.. its not a place to go level a 30 job nor should a level 30 job be allowed to go level.. not to mention its crap people will charge people for leech spots and make gil off exploiting an alliance out to get xp..

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Bah...gimp 75s were around long before abbyssea and that's the cold hard truth. And people can get the're appropriate job skills to cap in a matter of days if not hours.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I would love to hear why SE made the min level 30. that is big reason for people being lazy these days.

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Because leeching is an intended design mechanic. Everything about Abyssea's XP mechanics is designed as a response to one or more totally defensible complaints about FFXI's old XP system, and a big complaint was how obnoxious and time-consuming it was to level a new job generally, whether it was your first or your tenth. You might have liked the old system, and if you did I am happy to report that it's still there.

People will disagree over whether the amount of time it took to level before Abyssea was released was a good thing, but enough people felt it was bad to justify the creation of another way.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Because leeching is an intended design mechanic. Everything about Abyssea's XP mechanics is designed as a response to one or more totally defensible complaints about FFXI's old XP system, and a big complaint was how obnoxious and time-consuming it was to level a new job generally, whether it was your first or your tenth. You might have liked the old system, and if you did I am happy to report that it's still there.

People will disagree over whether the amount of time it took to level before Abyssea was released was a good thing, but enough people felt it was bad to justify the creation of another way.

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I think the vast majority of ppl who complain about leeching are just butthurt that it wasnt around when they leveled their jobs. Either this or they can't stand to see a newer player have more 75s than them. It's really childish if ya think about it. Who cares that someone else has more jobs leveled with less game time than you...When abby first came out i had rdm nin drg at 75....and now have rdm drg nin blm 90...thf 75. i mix in regular exp parties for nostalgia along with limited leeching. (thf 51-75. blm 60-64. whm 41-55...all 3 jobs had they're skills capped) when abby came out my sam was in the 20s and now its 62. I don't leech it by choice but I'm not against leeching obviuosly. My gk is capped from nin using it and merits so i could justify leeching it but i (surprise surprise) enjoy playin the job. However, whm, for example, is not so different than what i learned from comin up as rdm...and i detested the idea of being a main heal for a slow grind of 70 levels. In short, to each his own. No one is forced to leech and to get all worked up because someone else is leeching is a childish waste of energy.

I don't see how being a key master contributes to the battle in a meaningful way that is specific to the job they are getting exp for. Before Abyssea, lower level members would receive a penalty for being in a pt with higher level members. I don't see why Abyssea should be different.