Einherjar / Limbus / Nyzul Isle / Salvage - No More Proc Systems!!

As the subject stats, renewel to these zones DO NOT NEED PROC SYSTEMS!!

• These events should be able to be done everyday just like the revamp of dynamis.

• Nyzul Isle and Einherjar should have Alexandrite and linen pouches available from those events.

• New Chambers should be added to Einherjar with a new Einherjar specific Abjuration set as well as upgrades to existing Einherjar specific gear (Valhalla, Fork etc)

• No single person treasure pools that can give an existing item a person already has.

Proc systems were fine in Abyssea, and we were forced to have them in the revamp of dynamis. Please do not force on us more proc systems in events that did not have them before.

oh god this a million times, i farmed coins in dynamis for first time the other day and im already annoyed. procs were fine for one event or two, but VW took it a step too far and reusing it in dynamis was just redundant.

I approve of this message 999%.

/signedddd

Yeah no more proc please.

I liked weakness procs in abyssea, where extra work gave extra rewards, but I do not care for how they work in voidwatch. In voidwatch you can work very hard maximizing lights for little more than a mahogony log. I am a little torn on dynamis, however. It isn't the triggering I mind in dynamis, it's how stubborn the monsters can be. Instead of fighting at a natural pace all we do is spam until we proc.
I really wouldn't mind needing some easy to trigger generic weakness for bonus items in these event renewals, but that dose not seem to be the direction the dev team is heading.

The problem with completely scrapping the proc system is it lets the game go back to ToAU job favoritism again. At least with the proc system, 5 jobs get some love instead of like... 2.

Ideally SE should make every job desirable in one way or another, but until they get that right (they never will, thanks to the fickle attitude of players) a proc system is the easiest way to make sure no one gets completely left out.

That said, adding it to a lowman type event like Nyzul Isle would do more harm than good. And even in large scale events like Einherjar... it should be possible to get decent loot with just TH alone.
If they could get the balance down to where every job has a decent chance of proc'ing like in VW, and it has a significant impact like near-guarenteed drops like in abyssea... that'd be fine.

No more procs! No more procs! No more procs!
いいえprocファイルシステムはご遠慮ください！

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

Ideally SE should make every job desirable in one way or another, but until they get that right (they never will, thanks to the fickle attitude of players) a proc system is the easiest way to make sure no one gets completely left out.

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It does help, but it's FAR from a magic bullet.

It rarely matters how potent the procifying spell or ability is, just that there's a character around with it. Thus, a job there solely to proc stuff is likely to be on somebody's second character, wearing only a subligar and some basic stuff, and used only to proc stuff. Also, somebody can sometimes just sub something weird.

Sometimes, being there just to proc something can almost be worse than not being there or just being there because your bros and bro-ettes are there. Blue Magic procs in Voidwatch are more of a millstone around Blue Mage's neck than a ticket for inclusion, for example.

The proc system was interesting for a while, but I really don't want it in everything.

Agreed, having to proc in Abyssea, Dynamis and Voidwatch is enough. No more, please.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Blue Magic procs in Voidwatch are more of a millstone around Blue Mage's neck than a ticket for inclusion, for example.

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This x 1000. The few times I have been blu for Voidwatch I've nearly torn all my hair off in sheer frustration.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

It does help, but it's FAR from a magic bullet.

It rarely matters how potent the procifying spell or ability is, just that there's a character around with it. Thus, a job there solely to proc stuff is likely to be on somebody's second character, wearing only a subligar and some basic stuff, and used only to proc stuff. Also, somebody can sometimes just sub something weird.

Sometimes, being there just to proc something can almost be worse than not being there or just being there because your bros and bro-ettes are there. Blue Magic procs in Voidwatch are more of a millstone around Blue Mage's neck than a ticket for inclusion, for example.

The proc system was interesting for a while, but I really don't want it in everything.

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This is true, I was actually thinking that a refinement to the proc'ing system would be in order. As it is right now, you're correct. None of the systems in place are perfect.

This may be a bit scatterbrained, but this is something I was thinking about in terms of improving the proc system as a whole.

Since SE is going to be revamping Nyzul Isle in the near future, I'd imagine Mythic WS's are once again going to be pretty commonplace (not that they were rare to begin with.)

They could make a sort of hybrid system between the Blue proc'ing in abyssea and VW's system.

General Rundown:
You have 2 different ways to proc with weapons, NQ weakness and HQ weakness. The NQ weakness would be a generic WS that most jobs have access too. HQ weakness would be Mythic WS's. Every job has one.

The difference between an NQ and HQ trigger would be the increase in drop rate on desirable loot. This loot still has a reasonable shot of dropping with just TH (which makes the entire system somewhat optional, but still gives incentives for trying to incorporate it into your playstyle/alliance make-up.) But the NQ trigger would increase drop rate significantly, and the HQ trigger would make it near guarenteed.

Keep the whole "time aspect" of blue procing from abyssea intact.
Weapon types that have no Mythic WS at all would be removed from the list entirely.

Example: Let's say... you have Polearm. NQ weakness would be something like Raiden thrust: DRG, SAM, PLD, WAR, etc. have access to. But to trigger the HQ weakness, you have to use the Mythic WS for that weapon type: Drakesbane, a DRG exclusive. This way, even if a DRG is not dealing as much damage as a SAM or WAR (purely hypothetical here...), he compensates by giving out better loot during Piercing time.

Other example: A weapon like Sword, which PLD/BLU/RDM have Mythic WS's for. All 3 would be able to proc HQ weakness. Guarenteed. This way, during Slashing time, if it happens to be sword, the RDM/PLD/BLU have it covered, all the while covering NQ weaknesses for other damage types when it's not Sword or Slashing time.

The way I see it, it means that every job during their specific time has a reason for being present at an event, but if people choose to just bring <insert top DD here> to their runs, those players aren't completely screwed. They can still do NQ procs with other weapon types during times where their HQ proc isn't a possible option.

It's entirely possible that I may be overlooking something that makes this entire idea stupid, this was more of a "top of my head" thing. Just a thought. Either way, it's late. And I'm gettin some sleep.

Making a proc system different after this long is a horrible idea and secondly changing it so other jobs are "used more" is foolish, you have to make a proc system for everything so the jobs stay useful. There's a reason jobs like pup are sidelined, they are unusable for endgame events as they are useless additions.

1) 24 Hour Entry. Einherjar will be enjoyable to spam. It works for Dynamis, and it will work for this event

2) Switch up the Treasure Chest Rewards to:

+ Abj (Higher Drop Rate) With the introduction of Relic+, and the currecnt open market of AF3, there is no need to hold back. Let us relish the spoils of old hnm.
+ Tatter Abjs
+ Cotton Coin Purse & Linen Coin Purse. Usher in more Mythic weapons.
+ "Salvage Materials Only" instead of normal crafting materials. A Rebirth of a Good event.

3) Base upon everyone's preformance in the field, from waves of mobs to the boss, the alliance is given a healthly amount of:

Tokens
Imperial Standing
Assualt Points
Theron Ichor

7k to 8K worth. Mythic now seems more in reach.

3) Install an Eniherjar NPC next to all WhiteGate NPC. Thier only function will be to port You to Nashmau for the price of 100 Therion Ichor. I have nothing aginst the Tidal Wave Coat, nor the Nashmau earring, or even racing through Alzadaal Undersea Ruins, but this way is more effective. If you're running late, and you need to rush at the last min for whatever reason, there will be no excuse.

4) Provide 3 new wings, where the jobs of ToaU take the spolight:

Buccaneer's wing = Upon entry Your stats are left in hands of chance. You can suffer a Bust Duration for the fight; You May enter with a full inventory of Besieged Temp Items; You may have one roll up (thinking ahead with the 3 rolls coming into pratice); or You may have enter as normal. For each member of the alliance the outcome will be different.

Immortal wing = The choice of your spells offensive/defensive will insure or unhinge your chance of victory. This will apply to the waves and the boss (Raubahn), where one blu of your alliance must duel. If anyone but a single blu approaches the battle is lost. You are given 5 mins to prepair spells, while Raubahn buff himself.

Puppetmaster Wing = I am not sure what to place here.

While playing in the three new wings, Cor Blu & Pup JAs and Spells have an Higher Potency than the rest of the alliance. This is thier home turf, and they should have home game advantage. Bias? Yes.

As for mobs, off the top of My head, I say bring in various characters from the ToaU missions/Quest. Raubahn whom is up to date on spells; Razfahd with a mixture of old and new moves; Gessho useing all the new spells. In short be creative. Incorporate as much of ToaU as you can.

Odin: Add a Defender Ring as one of the drops. This alone is sexy.

These are all rough drafts, but something to play with.

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Originally Posted by Glacont

Odin: Add a Defender Ring as one of the drops. This alone is sexy.

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A while ago I would have laughed at you for suggestion that. Now I fear it would be the best shot I had at it, next to Mog Bonanza.

The other suggestions are kinda... I really don't wanna have to bring a COR, BLU or PUP for that. Why would you wanna make it dependant on one certain job, some groups may not even have? Especially a BLU duel? Pass.

No more proc system.

For that guy wanting a warp to Nashmau npc, unlock synergy buy a silver earring (1kish npc) and a nashmau waystone (10k) get someone to craft it there you go 30 charges to warp to Nashmau from anywere.

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

The problem with completely scrapping the proc system is it lets the game go back to ToAU job favoritism again. At least with the proc system, 5 jobs get some love instead of like... 2.

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Abyssea proc system actually excludes more that it includes.

Everything else is just holding back damage and drawing out the fight longer than it has to be.

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Originally Posted by Glacont

Tokens
Imperial Standing
Assualt Points
Theron Ichor

7k to 8K worth. Mythic now seems more in reach.

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Every requirement of Mythic is already easy enough except alex. You can easily get 3k token in one Nyzul run if you start from F100 and climb 5+ floors(which is easy nowadays). There's no need to adjust token/AP/Ichor drops at all.

All I see is just some impatient ppl wanting to finish Mythic in 1 month like empy instead of 1+ year, and keep asking SE to make this easier, make that faster. However by making Mythic faster to build will also erase the epicness of finishing this weapon, and thus not much point to make it(for most of the jobs) anymore.


I hope Mythic stays on the top as a weapon requires most dedication to make, period. Once a new player without one job 95, haven't finish spell list, doesn't gear swap, zero AF3+1(wearing full pink) and only knows how to spam MP costly spell like Gob rush told me he wants to make a Mythic, and been starting working on Ichor/token stuff, before doing things that's more important and provides bigger boost to his job like grind Abyssea gears and empy.

If Mythic gets THAT easy to make we'd just see a bunch of more Mythic owners in pink, who doesn't know what's the priority. Mythic should remain as a weapon that you need to gear your job decently first before you can do it, and shouldn't be available to full pink players. At 75 cap this kind of player won't even clear salvage/Nyzul, now you can pretty much clear it naked.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Abyssea proc system actually excludes more that it includes.

Everything else is just holding back damage and drawing out the fight longer than it has to be.

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Depends on what you're trying to proc. BLM's got a hell of a lot more love after abyssea came out.

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

The problem with completely scrapping the proc system is it lets the game go back to ToAU job favoritism again. At least with the proc system, 5 jobs get some love instead of like... 2.

Ideally SE should make every job desirable in one way or another, but until they get that right (they never will, thanks to the fickle attitude of players) a proc system is the easiest way to make sure no one gets completely left out.

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By that logic, I'd only want the jobs that proc the most.
In abyssea, it becomes 'we should have NIN, we should have WAR, we should have WHM, we should have BLM, BLU and BRD. Everything else? We covered just about every proc, why care?'

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Originally Posted by Afania

I hope Mythic stays on the top as a weapon requires most dedication to make, period. Once a new player without one job 95, haven't finish spell list, doesn't gear swap, zero AF3+1(wearing full pink) and only knows how to spam MP costly spell like Gob rush told me he wants to make a Mythic, and been starting working on Ichor/token stuff, before doing things that's more important and provides bigger boost to his job like grind Abyssea gears and empy.

If Mythic gets THAT easy to make we'd just see a bunch of more Mythic owners in pink, who doesn't know what's the priority. Mythic should remain as a weapon that you need to gear your job decently first before you can do it, and shouldn't be available to full pink players. At 75 cap this kind of player won't even clear salvage/Nyzul, now you can pretty much clear it naked.

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Given how difficult it can be to take advantage of most Mythic weapons, this wouldn't bother me at all.

Some bro who doesn't change his imaginary pants would get to feel happy about his shiny thing, and knowledgeable people get to point out how someone that dense would actually do more damage with a simple fire-path Magian weapon and joke about it. Seems like a win/win situation to me.

I... like procs in Dynamis. stops it from being the same boring "Throw 18 DDs at it till it dies" borefest that Dynamis used to be. Dynamis was boring as sin before, and now I actually am having so much fun I'm making a relic weapon.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

By that logic, I'd only want the jobs that proc the most.
In abyssea, it becomes 'we should have NIN, we should have WAR, we should have WHM, we should have BLM, BLU and BRD. Everything else? We covered just about every proc, why care?'

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And what's the alternative? Ukon WAR and WHM onry?

I already stated in my second post that the current proc system isn't perfect. Far from it. I even threw out some possible suggestions to improve on the current system to include more jobs without being the complete clusterfuck that is voidwatch.

So yea, until SE can properly balance the jobs to give incentive to bring all of them, the proc system is the next best thing. 6 jobs being useful is better than 2.

SE is never going to win at making every job useful in one particular event. There isn't a single event in the world that would ever be able to do this properly, not while keeping all 20 jobs in this game unique.

The solution is simply more events. Let MNK shine in one place, and PUP in another. We already know that every job has some sort of niche where they function better than their peers. If you want to limit the power of specialist classes, restrict party sizes for certain events or drop people in different areas of a map to start with. I know I'll be much better able to survive on my own while my party regroups on Summoner or Puppetmaster than I would be on Monk or Warrior without backup.

Beyond that, it's important to make rewards enticing from every style of event. People do Abyssea and generally ignore Walk of Echoes (which is extremely hybrid-friendly) because Abyssea drops better shit. In trying to make the events unique, SE is going to end up making the rewards for each event different - and when things are different, one piece will always be better than the alternative, making the latter worthless.

Voidwatch can't be the be-all end-all. The Last Stand can't be the be-all end-all. If you're attempting to create a balanced environment for all 20 jobs in Endgame, then no singular event should take the stage as the epitome of endgame development because no single event is ever going to be able to fully utilize every one of the jobs in this game.

Create multiple paths to the same goal. That's how you encourage variety.

Aeonk,
While I like your proc idea, I don't think proc belongs in these events because they are made to move very fast thru the event in order to low man it, and proc takes up alot of time. In dynamis it was sort of ok because the purpose for said event, once you did a clear run or new hnm gear run, it's all about farming currency/af2. But with limbus or einherjar for example, these are events that have nothing to do with farming so to speak and everything to do with "hurry up, hurry up" because you need to get those 5 floors done in nyzil, you need to clear the chambers in 30 minutes, you need to get the te chest in limbus and get your butt up to the next floor if you want that chip. So, proc for these events would totally ruin the event for low manning, and lets face it they are not going to be suddenly popular to the point that that 1. you are going to find 6+ people to do the event with, except einherjar which you already need a decent amount of people and that's hard to come by if you don't have a ls just for that event, and 2. who wants to share with 6 people the drops when you can already low man the stuff with 3-4 (except einherjar, and if you can 3-4 man it hit me up please)?

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Originally Posted by Orenwald

I... like procs in Dynamis. stops it from being the same boring "Throw 18 DDs at it till it dies" borefest that Dynamis used to be. Dynamis was boring as sin before, and now I actually am having so much fun I'm making a relic weapon.

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And spamming steps and flourishes is not boring...? Give me a break.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

SE is never going to win at making every job useful in one particular event. There isn't a single event in the world that would ever be able to do this properly, not while keeping all 20 jobs in this game unique.

The solution is simply more events. Let MNK shine in one place, and PUP in another. We already know that every job has some sort of niche where they function better than their peers. If you want to limit the power of specialist classes, restrict party sizes for certain events or drop people in different areas of a map to start with. I know I'll be much better able to survive on my own while my party regroups on Summoner or Puppetmaster than I would be on Monk or Warrior without backup.

Beyond that, it's important to make rewards enticing from every style of event. People do Abyssea and generally ignore Walk of Echoes (which is extremely hybrid-friendly) because Abyssea drops better shit. In trying to make the events unique, SE is going to end up making the rewards for each event different - and when things are different, one piece will always be better than the alternative, making the latter worthless.

Voidwatch can't be the be-all end-all. The Last Stand can't be the be-all end-all. If you're attempting to create a balanced environment for all 20 jobs in Endgame, then no singular event should take the stage as the epitome of endgame development because no single event is ever going to be able to fully utilize every one of the jobs in this game.

Create multiple paths to the same goal. That's how you encourage variety.

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See, that's a fair solution in my book.

I'm not saying the proc system is a must-have deal, but to completely strip it away and not include content that other less desireable jobs are able to participate in is a step backwards, not forward.
That seems to be what others are suggesting. And that's not a real solution.

Maybe if the revamps SE has in mind for Nyzul/salvage/einherjar make for more diversity, that will help. But going off of what we know the events to be so far, I see many jobs getting the shaft once again. I hope SE proves me wrong, I really do.

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Originally Posted by Helel

And spamming steps and flourishes is not boring...? Give me a break.

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This so much. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Given how difficult it can be to take advantage of most Mythic weapons, this wouldn't bother me at all.

Some bro who doesn't change his imaginary pants would get to feel happy about his shiny thing, and knowledgeable people get to point out how someone that dense would actually do more damage with a simple fire-path Magian weapon and joke about it. Seems like a win/win situation to me.

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Yes but this game is all about making progress, and achieve more goal after seeing your character improved. And Mythic(or w/e epic weapon it is) is a trophy of achieving your goal after you improve your performance.

Back at lv 75 era when I just ding 75, didn't know how to gear swap(or play my jobs properly), didn't have an EG event gear, I tried my first Nyzul run, and joined a Nyzul static tried to clear. That's when Nyzul was still challenging for newer ppl without experience. After we failed Floor 1~5 run for a month and static disbanded because of that, I realized I need better gears. I joined a dynamis LS to get BLU relic body for refresh, and got sea access+ joined limbus LS to upgrade my BLU AF1 to +1, after some gear grind and made different gear sets, our static reformed, and finally able to clear F100. That was an epic moment in my FFXI life, Nyzul 100 clear seemed impossible months ago, and in the end all the obsticle was overcomed and finally able to get clear.

I wouldn't even think about stuff such as doing Mythic before I have decent gear back at 75 cap, just because clearing Nyzul, salvage, ToAU HNMs, Einherjar, wasn't easy for someone just ding 75 with no EG experience/gear/friends, and there are priorities I need to do before attempting hardest weapon in this game.

Now you can pretty much clear all of those naked. It's like playing a RPG without trying to get better items and lv up, then you go to final boss right away. Do you fight Sephiroth in FF7 before getting enough materia/items/levels on Cloud? No you don't. You attempt the boss fight after a long journey, you don't attempy to fight him right from the beginning. Nyzul is already easy enough since you can climb 5+ floors nowadays, and by adding more tokens that just makes the entire section of this quest a joke. Now there's nothing to stop a lv 1 Onion knight to fight Dark cloud like in FF3, you don't need to make any progress, you just automically fight the final boss and automically wins. What's the meaning of even playing it then?

I've seen many ppl asking this and asking that on the forum about mythic weapon. Ask to remove the assault 3 ppl requirement because ppl can't find 2 other character to do assault(you can't even find 2 CHARACTERS to do an 5~30 min event in an MMORPG, seriously?) Ask unlimited Nyzul tag/Einherjar entrance so they can spam Nyzul/Einherjar like how they spam empy 10hrs a day and finish it in a week. All I see is just a bunch of impatient ppl want Mythic weapon to be something like Abyssea empy weapons, wants duobox-able assault like abyssea, no cool down time for nyzul/einherjar so they can spam both events for 10hrs a day and finish Mythic in 1 month. And the fact that most of the old events are easy means there are no obsticles too.

I started working on Mythic 1.5 year ago before empy even exist, joined 5 different Einherjar LS, made alliance of 18 ppl or join LS events to kill ToAU HNMs, made assault/salvage/nyzul static for alexandrite/assault clear/tokens, meet all sorts of ppl and play with different ppl during the process, did those title fights while it was still epic and challenging. The experience of making a Mythic(at least before lv cap increase) is nothing like soloing on BST in dyna for 2 months for a relic, or dual box with a mule 10hrs a day for an empy. There are epic moments during the process, unlike doing relic/empy nowadays. I can understand that due to lv cap increase, ToAU content is no longer worth anything challenge. But I still think 1~2 years is reasonable amount of time to finish a Mythic(some ppl spend 3+ years on relic back in the day, so 1 year isn't even as bad), but certainly not 1~2 months like relic/empy.

If you wanna make Mythic weapon easy and able to finish it naked that's fine, but we already have empy that can be done in 1 week, and relic can be done in 2 months with a mule, with many ppl owning more than 2 empy or relic. We don't need another fast cast weapon that can be done in one month and ppl ended up getting 20 Mythics for every job. I've got 3k token with just 3 ppl in pt in Nyzul in one run, and that's only 1.5 month of spamming Nyzul to finish this part if you want to. There are very little reason to make it drop more. Mythic should remain as the long journey to an end, a final goal for the job you truely loved that you would only do it once a life time, and a memoriable moment after this goal accomplished. If you really want a Mythic weapon and love your job enough, you will finish it eventually, instead of complaining over here because you want to finish it in 1 month instead of 1 year.

Procs are for one thing alone and that was to combat zergs. Now kill speed and damage take a back seat to getting procs. They are doing this since its cheaper to draw out content for as long as the player base will put up with it so they don't have to make more content. They have no idea how else to do it with in the frame work they boxed them selfs into with having to work around the PS2 code limits and can't pull off the tricks other MMOs can.

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Originally Posted by Orenwald

I... like procs in Dynamis. stops it from being the same boring "Throw 18 DDs at it till it dies" borefest that Dynamis used to be. Dynamis was boring as sin before, and now I actually am having so much fun I'm making a relic weapon.

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I like the changes to dynamis. Being able to enter for free once a day, solo, and get currency/relic armour was a change for the better. And I don't think having to proc to get currency was such a bad solution. Otherwise it would be too easy and the currency prices would have crashed a long time ago. They are already on the way down, at least on Asura, and Ru'lude is packed with people bazaaring currency.

Could SE have come up with another way of restricting currency drop? Quite possibly. As it is, I don't mind the proc system in dynamis, but like I already said - no more please SE.

@ Afania I Reviewed your first post:

It seem to give the imppression of new players given the chance to grab something with ease, where a vetran, like yourself, has work hard to achieve. And that if this is put into motion it will only be a slap in the face to those whose been here pre-Level 75 cap raised.

And the second post:

Where you go into detail as to why this should not be.

I myself am not one of the new players; no disrespect to them. I've put in work at various activites since 04. Look Me up on FXIAH.com (Fenrir) and take stock under the sub-heading 'Achievements' if you doubt My words. Mythic is perhaps one of the last things I have yet to fully give My attention. I touch bases with most requirements out of sheer game play, but not all the meat and potatos. Why? Chuck it up to Salvage and Einherjar being My main obession during that era, and by the time the smoke cleared Abyssea was in the mix, however, I stray from topic. Am I one of those impatient players? For obtaninig My own Mythic.. in this case I can say yes, my reason for being impatient are not important, but you have to admit the number of requirements 'as a whole' are a bit much. I have made the "suggestions" as means to revive Einherjar, Salvage, and open the doors for Mythic Weapons to be in reach; Not handed to anyone, but simplely put into reach if someone wants to take that path. From My own personal stand point, there is nothing wrong with this.

Your posts combined hold alot of passion, and strong beliefs. Out of respect, which you've certainly earned, I'll simply say "Ok". I do understand where You are coming from, and what You're saying, but I do not fully agree.

/bow :) [No sarcasim is intended]


With that aside, procs applies to Abyssea, Dynamis, and VoidWatch. Procs does not, however, apply to Limbus, Nyzul Isle, or Einherjar. These are fast pace, hack n' slash, events and should never be slowed down for any reasons.

to sum up the wall-o-text

plz SE no more proc systems. We're getting worn out on them.

What Greatguardian said.

I've always considered the absolute best way to go about making all jobs useful, is to have specific encounters where they will shine at and cannot be won without them. Perhaps not even engaged without them. Sort of like the Abyssea content and system minus procs. It'd be a zone full of content and NMs where if they drop drg war whm blu gear then only those jobs can engage and kill it, or perhaps all jobs can engage but only those four jobs can get the kill shot or do serious damage or any variation of that.

"usefulness" is NOT restricted to dealing the most damage or being the best healer or being a ranged attacker. If your job is required to win an encounter well then guess what? You just became useful in the grand scheme of things. It is absolutely no different from anything else requiring blank to win. No different from BLM armies or zergs or SMN armies or typically 6 man group of tank healer nuker debuffer melee melee. Whatever gets the win = useful. SE just needs to go about it differently. Mostly they just need to dish out more content than not. I stick to my guns. FFXI end game is extremely weak in size compared to most MMOs. And because of that we've had to live with cookie cutting our way to victory. Events are fine and dandy but at the end of the day events don't support 20 jobs. We need more Abyssea style content, in the sense that we have a zone to go to and NMs to farm for all jobs in the game. NOT in the sense of atmas, buffs, procs. Sky/sea/Abyssea whatever floats your boat as an example. And if we're going to keep doing event style end game at least mix it up so one group of jobs don't always remain the best options.

But of course looking at VW, all of what I just typed probably was a waste of time. They're staff is on life support. They're trying to do content that appeases all jobs for a change. And that effort is admirable. But it's not working due to the nature of the NMs and the drop system. Sky was very successful/still successful for good reasons, not that we all enjoyed sky farming back in the day. The system is great but it needed higher drop rates. Why they have swayed so far from that style of end game is beyond me. But we need more of it, and less of... ugh. Voidwhatever.

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Originally Posted by Orenwald

I... like procs in Dynamis. stops it from being the same boring "Throw 18 DDs at it till it dies" borefest that Dynamis used to be. Dynamis was boring as sin before, and now I actually am having so much fun I'm making a relic weapon.

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Not proposing that current systems be removed, only that they stop reusing the same concept over and over for future content.

Also, on Dynamis specifically since the specific proc in each category is random every time, it's not like the strategy is much different than you described. It's either "weaponskill it til it dies," "Nuke it til it dies," or "Kill it til it dies after JA proc". It's not bad, no, but I don't really care to keep having it in future content.

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

The problem with completely scrapping the proc system is it lets the game go back to ToAU job favoritism again. At least with the proc system, 5 jobs get some love instead of like... 2.

Ideally SE should make every job desirable in one way or another, but until they get that right (they never will, thanks to the fickle attitude of players) a proc system is the easiest way to make sure no one gets completely left out.

That said, adding it to a lowman type event like Nyzul Isle would do more harm than good. And even in large scale events like Einherjar... it should be possible to get decent loot with just TH alone.
If they could get the balance down to where every job has a decent chance of proc'ing like in VW, and it has a significant impact like near-guarenteed drops like in abyssea... that'd be fine.

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As Opposed to Abyssea job favoritism you mean?

Honestly, I want the revamp on these events to actually revive the old pt-based XP system where any job (except possibly bst... /sigh) could work as long as you keep BALANCE in the build. Revive the old tank/puller/dd/dd/healer/support etc. builds. After all, it was good enough to keep the game running for 7 years until the lack of end-game content took it's toll.

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Revive the old tank/puller/dd/dd/healer/support etc. builds.

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Yes because we all remember there was absolutely no job favoritism back then >.>

Proc system can be used for 1 event only - Nyzul Isle - and only as one of the conditions for a clear. I would like to see a bit more variety beyond "go find the lamps and avoid gears!" which pops up a lot more often than I'd like.

It would be nice if they actually asked for our feedback on whether or not they intend to add some kind of proc system into these events. Even though I started this topic in hopes to get some feedback, I really feel the devs just say we are revamping events whether you like the changes or not. One thing I feel they forget is that we are the ones paying for this every month. We should have a little more say it what changes happen imo. Its like they already have the changes in motion, writing code, and at the last minute say here are the changes we are implementing do you like them? How about ask us, the players what we would like BEFORE starting the revamps of events. Then give feedback to us if the changes we would like to see can happen or if they cant. Its just a waste of manpower hours making changes nobody wants.

Well, procs are annoying and don't add any fun to content but the reason you have procs in Dynamis is to prevent people from mass-killing mobs for currency. Dynamis procs are pretty much a necessary evil.

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Originally Posted by Unleashhell

It would be nice if they actually asked for our feedback on whether or not they intend to add some kind of proc system into these events. Even though I started this topic in hopes to get some feedback, I really feel the devs just say we are revamping events whether you like the changes or not. One thing I feel they forget is that we are the ones paying for this every month. We should have a little more say it what changes happen imo. Its like they already have the changes in motion, writing code, and at the last minute say here are the changes we are implementing do you like them? How about ask us, the players what we would like BEFORE starting the revamps of events. Then give feedback to us if the changes we would like to see can happen or if they cant. Its just a waste of manpower hours making changes nobody wants.

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If they ask for feedback, it will be in the JP forums, not here.

Thus, if this will have any hope of getting read, the OP needs to be translated (not Google translate) and posted in the JP forums